20x32 1-1/2 Story On The Rocks

Started by MikeOnBike, May 25, 2010, 12:02:55 AM

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MikeOnBike

Hello, I've been reading, learning and enjoying everyone's projects for a little over a year now.  We are finally getting started on our cabin so I have something to share.

A little background.  About three years ago my mother, brother and I acquired 80 acres.  It's not rolling meadows or lush green forest.  It is essentially a high desert rock pile.  It does have water though and some very nice views.  The water is a year-round spring and a creek running diagonally through the 1/4 mile by 1/2 mile plot.

The current plan is to dry in my mother's cabin this year.  We are planning a 20x32 version of John's 20x30 cabin.  As soon as I know that she is not going to change her mind I'll get the plans ordered.  For high desert it sure has been wet this year and we are about a month late getting onto the mountain.  I should have already finished the 10x12 shed that we will use for sleeping and storage.  Hopefully I will get to complete the foundation this next weekend.

I've changed John's layout a bit.  The cabin will be offgrid and not heated year round so the water needs to be easy to drain at the end of a visit.  The kitchen and bathroom will share a wet wall.  There will be a covered 32' porch on the south side.





That's probably enough rambling for now so I'll leave off with a panorama from the eventual porch.  The ground under foot is a rock shelf with a light dusting of dirt.  No digging required here, just dust it off with a broom.  We will need to drive some pins into the rock to anchor the piers.  I think we will have only about 18" elevation change front to back on the foundation.





rick91351

Mike I really like your layout.  I assume that is the stairs to the right of the entry.  Also are you going to have loft or a full floor up there?  Is that a heating stove in the front room next to the wall? 

I do like your location.  The Owyhees are a very special treasure.  Keep in touch I might be able to haul some materials for you if I am in the valley and my heavy duty flat bed trailer is down there as well.       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


Osprey

Pocket doors would save a bunch of space. That bathroom is going to be tight.

davidj

This is a nice layout.

However I'd skip the island given how small the kitchen is and the fact that the space is a major transit area (try prototyping it with cardbox boxes and I think you'll find the walkways too narrow).  Then you could extend the wall behind the wood burning stove "north", making for an interesting 45" storage space.  Either put in a small counter and cabinets (a keys-and-cell-phone-and-shopping-list counter) or turn it into a pantry.  You also might want to move the stove next to the fridge to extend the usable counter space - a 30" stove works okay next to a fridge in a small cabin.  Or just go with a 24" stove.

poppy

 w*  Here's a picky comment for ya.  The fridge door should open to the left.  :)

I have lost count of the number of refridgerators that I have reversed the doors on.


MikeOnBike

#5
Osprey, I like pocket doors but the layout tool doesn't have them.  I'm using the free version of Envisioneer and it doesn't come with very many props.  Probably better to just show an opening.  The other issue is that we are trying to minimize the plumbing.  We need to be able to quickly drain the water lines before leaving.  The two sinks are back to back for a reason.  A pocket door will slide in between the sinks and lengthen my plumbing runs.  I'm also not going to run any plumbing in an outside wall.  The cabin will be off-grid so it will only have heat when I light a fire.

David, the island would not be a full 24" deep as shown, another limitation of the layout tool.  I also wouldn't make it permanent. I'm thinking more like a 16"x32" cart that if it gets in the way can be eliminated.  The small space just north of the stairs and what will be under the top stair is a 12-16" deep pantry.  The fridge and stove will probably both be 24"  I had read somewhere that it was a good idea to keep the stove and fridge separated a bit so stove doesn't overwork the fridge

Poppy, the fridge is another limitation of the layout tool.  We plan to use a Servel/Dometic RGE400 or similar.  It is 24" wide and reversible.  I've never had to change one.  They were always right and then they all started having double doors with handles in the middle.

Rick, yes stairs to the right.  Below is a rough sketch of the upstairs.  It will be completely under the 12/12 roof.  My current plan is an I-Joist deck on top of the lower level walls and a 3-4' knee wall.  The Owyhees are special.  It was a real treat to grow up there.

There will be a row of two twin beds along the north wall in each bedroom.  The rectangle next to the stairs is an open chase for the stove pipe from the wood stove just below.  I will use wire mesh to keep little fingers from touching the pipe.



davidj

Quote from: MikeOnBike on May 25, 2010, 10:29:57 PM
David, the island would not be a full 24" deep as shown, another limitation of the layout tool.  I also wouldn't make it permanent. I'm thinking more like a 16"x32" cart that if it gets in the way can be eliminated.  The small space just north of the stairs and what will be under the top stair is a 12-16" deep pantry.  The fridge and stove will probably both be 24"  I had read somewhere that it was a good idea to keep the stove and fridge separated a bit so stove doesn't overwork the fridge.
Sounds great - the cart is a good way to go.  And with 24" wide fridge and stove you can probably keep them separated.

Your posting brought back my memories of fighting with the house planning tool I used - trying to shrink everything to cabin size when the software really wanted everything to be standard size and shape.  Fortunately we've now actually got the cabin so I can just prototype everything full size using scrap plywood and 2x4 - much more rewarding!

rick91351

You might want to price out a Metalbestos stove pipe, collars and fittings.  They are made over at Nampa and save having to run a chase.  Lot safer and cool to the touch.

I remember the picture of the spring you sent.  How are you going to run your water to the house?  I cannot remember are you planning a septic tank and drain field as well or composting toilet?
     

Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

MikeOnBike

Rick, thanks for the Metalbestos tip.

We need to develop a spring box at the spring location.  The first cabin is ~200 ft. from the spring.  We will pump water up to fill 30gal food grade plastic barrels under the counters.  This should give us about 120 gal storage in the cabin.  An RV type diaphragm pump will provide local pressure.  I'm considering a Dankoff Solar Slowpump to fill the storage in the cabins.  http://www.firemountainsolar.com/waterpumps.html#solarslowpump.  This will give the lift I need to get water 1200ft. away and up 150' feet in elevation to the cabin I will eventually build for myself.  I can install a small solar panel and battery at the spring site.  Filling the water cache in each cabin is a manual process.  Open the feed valve on the supply line in the cabin(s) that you want to pump to, start the pump and let it run.  There will be an overflow so you can't flood a cabin.  When the barrels are full walk down and turn off the pump.  A pressure relief valve at the spring box will dump if none of the feed valves are open in a cabin. 

The battery should supply enough juice to top off a couple of cabins and the solar panel can recharge the battery over a couple of days.  The solar setup at the nearest cabin is ~250ft. away.  I could run power from there but there would be a lot of loss even if I used a 110v version of the pump so I will probably put in a separate panel and battery.

We will have an outhouse setup for composting like this:   http://www.omick.net/composting_toilets/composting_toilets.htm  Search for 'showing composting chamber'.  There will also be a Humanure like setup in the cabin for cold weather and nighttime use.  If that doesn't work out we can put in an actual composting toilet.  Septic is just not feasible.  There is just too much rock and the cabin is too close to the creek.


MikeOnBike

#9
Today we started on the fence.  We have one mile to build this year.  Hopefully we can get it finished in June before the cows are turned out on the neighboring BLM land in early July.

We started with the main gate.  We finished this and a total of six stone bucks.




John Raabe

The layouts look good. Make sure those are egress (casement) windows in the upper level bedrooms - always have two ways to get out of a sleeping room. If you are going to platform frame the loft floor and then build up a knee wall, you want to be sure to lock the rafters with a rafter tie or install trusses to take care of the outward thrust.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

MikeOnBike

John, I really like your original layout with the kitchen and bathroom on opposite sides of the cabin.  I think it works better but we have to deal with spring and fall usage when it still freezes at night and I want the water system to be very quick and easy to drain.  Water storage under the bathroom and kitchen counters, short water runs sloped downhill and a tankless heater on the outside bathroom wall over the counter.

Yes, egress upstairs is very important.  Those are my kids and grandkids sleeping up there.  I'm going to fit in as much window as possible.  I'm also thinking about attaching a rope ladder to the wall below the window so it can be easily thrown out of the window.

I wasn't planning on building up a knee wall over the outer wall.  I think I'll have enough room for the bedrooms if I anchor the rafters directly on the top of the loft platform.   This is kind of what I'm thinking.  Wouldn't the platform prevent the spread with this configuration?  I'm also thinking about flattening the ceiling so that would provide the rafter ties.  I do need to make sure there is enough head room over the first couple of stairs with this setup.


John Raabe

This thread has been split since a discussion was started about a new 10x12 cabin project.

The link to MikeOnBikes' discussion for that project is here:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10085.msg116454#msg116454

None of us are as smart as all of us.

MountainDon

Since this popped up with John's update I see there's something I wish to add. Referring to the insulation diagram above, I recently read an article that explained a deficiency in insulating the kneewall like that. The authors point out that  kneewall tend to have perforations for electrical and those perforations reduce the efficiency of such insulation. They were talking about cold or very cold climates. They advised to fully insulate the roof right down to the eves. Then there is no concern about sealing the knee wall and the triangular space becomes more accessible for storage as well.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


John Raabe

Yes, that is probably a better detail since it better insulates a smaller total area and also provides for kneewall storage inside the heated shell.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

MikeOnBike

One of my brother's first comments when he read the thread was that we probably want that knee wall space for storage so I agree.  There are a lot of reasons to insulate the rafter and not the knee wall.

I think we will also end up building with balloon framing and 10' walls.  The stumbling block with the platform build is the headroom for the stairs.  I can't find a better place for the stairs and there isn't enough room unless I start the stairs in front of the front door.  I think John's original design for the 1 1/2 story bears out this fact. 

With a full loft we might go 12' walls and a lesser pitch on the roof.  I'm trying to keep the cabin appearance low to the ground so it doesn't look like a tower up on a rock.  The 10' balloon wall also makes it easier to tuck a porch roof under the eaves and we plan to have a 32' porch down at least one side.