I have questions, and need help with my decision making process, please.

[Dave43950]

A little bit about me first... I worked in Sacramento, Ca for my Grandfather doing handyman work from when I was about 12 or 13, until I was 16. We did basic work around the homes of elderly people building ramps, installing cabinets, and doing general maintenance. We also did a few bathroom additions, as well as 2 bedroom additions. I moved to Ft. Worth, Tx and worked for my Cousin's framing company for several years, building custom homes in and around the local area as well as a lot of homes out toward the Azle, Tx area. I am now considering building a new home of my own, however I had no idea that there was quite a bit of stuff that I have no idea about!

My first question is about SIPs vs framing. If designed and planned out well, which one would save me money and time? Taking into consideration the fact that one or the other might be less or more expensive in the long run. (For example, maintenance & upkeep and w/ electric bill, etc.)

...Would it be feasible to do the exterior walls as SIP, and the interior walls conventionally? Vice versa? I'm looking for low build cost and at the same time I would be willing to pay more during the build process if it would save later on upkeep & be energy efficient.

Secondly, I want to do a crawl space and run my hvac under the home. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?

I have a lot questions but unfortunatley when I finally bring myself to asking them, I am drawing blanks! For now I will post this, and a copy of my floor plans just for reference, and I will check back and post more when my mind is present!! 

-Dave

[muldoon]

Welcome to the forum.   I am not a house expert on construction, so hopefully someone else will come along with any details I get wrong.

That being said, I think it is good to go with what you know.  If you spent several year framing as you said, then the experience you gained there will do you good.  Read up on foundations and go stick build from there.   For energy efficiency, go read up on the natural building sciences for your region.   Alot of information is out there about framing, insulation, and efficiency.   I like your floor plan.

[Dave43950]

I'd absolutely love to frame my own home. I'm here to see if I can get every possible angle before diving in though. When researching SIPs they sound like the best possible idea on paper but not having ever worked with them and only hearing about all the pros from these websites, I'm uncertain. They show stories of SIP homes withstanding 120mph winds while the neighbor's homes lay in ruins. They show thermal images of SIPs and stick builds and show that they keep your home heated/cooled better. They SAY that there is no possibility of mold. Hell, they built the Texas Motor Speedway out of SIPs.

I know that by time everything is done, I will have spent alot of money. But when that time comes I don't want to see some jackal down the road from me put up a SIP home for half the cost I did. I need to find out the pros and cons of both now, and if it comes down to SIPs being a better/cheaper/more efficient way to go then I would be more than happy to educate myself further on the installation of them.

I like this floor plan as well, Muldoon. The plan started out at 1,495 sq. ft. I then changed some things around, made rooms smaller, and it came out to 1,123 sq. ft. After placing the bedroom sets, and the kitchen counters I realized that I still had extra space with nothing to go there. (I am only placing the furniture I have in the home, since a majority of it is all new and doesn't need replaced.) From there we went to 1,003 sq.ft and finally settled on 918 sq. ft. In California I had a 3,252 sq. ft. 2 story home with a guest home that was roughly 500 sq. ft. In Texas I had a 1,500 sq. ft. home, and since then I have lived in smaller condos. Going from big to small gradually over time has made me think, what in the world did I do with all that space? lol.

*Edited for some spelling errors.

[Squirl]

I always liked the SIP kits.  I have found an 800 sq. ft house for $9,000 (just the SIPs) but that was 2 years ago.  I read a few books on SIP buildings.  These tell the con's unlike the people selling them to you. 

The biggest pro that I have found seems to be speed.  They are mostly precut in a factory and much of the building is ready to go.  A good 3 person crew and a rented crane can get an entire house dried in in 3-5 days.  If you are not putting in the labor yourself, you can save a fortune.  The other pro is that the studs are 4ft apart which is less heat loss for the building. 

This leads to the con that most people don't tell you. Because the studs are 4 ft apart many building departments wont approve them for code.  The process to get them approved can be a nightmare if they are approved at all.  Before considering them, I would check with the building department where you intend to build to see if they have approved them before.  Also, see if you can find other people that have built them with the exact same inspectors that you will have to deal with.

I always point people back to that 95-98% (depending on which book you are reading) of the homes in this country are stick built.  Most building inspectors know them and have seen nothing else.  Most building codes are geared towards stick built houses.  If you are looking to get into a home quickly, cheaply, and you have to worry about codes, I would recommend stick frame.  If you have time, money , and want to push for a greener world, I would look at alternative building methods such as SIPs.  It always takes someone to be a pioneer for the rest of us.

[Dave43950]

Stick build might be the way to go. Either way the home is smaller than my condo so I will save there as well, and anyways I had the A/c on last month, and had a guest here for 3 weeks and all three utilities came to $131. I should be fine. I just don't want to be retired and have to worry about $350 electric bills like I did in Ft. Worth.  

Anyways my brother-in-law faxed me some papers this morning with quotes from him (Contractor) and some of his pals that would be willing to do the work at somewhat discounted rates. I'm happy with the estimate, assuming, hoping, and pray that there are no mix ups or mistakes I think it will go well.  I have two pieces of property that I already own. I have one inside of town that has roughly 109 ft of road front, being 103 ft. deep. I have another lot outside of town that is on a slight downward slope toward the road and the back side is at the bottom of the mountain. It has roughly 72 ft. of road front, and is 151 ft deep. I believe that we will be building in town for now however due to the home being roughly 60' wide and I will need room on the side of the house for RV, and Boat (Currently stored at my cousin's in Cleveland.) With 109ft x 103ft I can put the house toward one side of the property with 10ft. of clearance so that I can pull the RV back in and still have my boat covered on the side. and then have roughly 39ft on the other side of the home as a side yard. It would also provide me with the chance to look over both the back and side from the master patio.

*Edited for some spelling errors.

[NM_Shooter]

I noticed you have 2.5 baths for 2 bedrooms.  Do you need that many toilets / bathtubs?  (I'm one to talk.  I won't tell you how many commodes are in my house).

Is the patio / deck door the main entrance to your house?

[John Raabe]

I'm not sure SIPS would save you any time or money. For a one-story house w/ trusses for the roof (do energy trusses for better energy efficiency) the wall framing is relatively easy and all the SIPS company would supply anyway. You could do R-21 in 2x6 framing and maybe use our "poor man's SIPS" detail for an interior or exterior foam board to up the efficiency.

I like your plan but I might try adding a foot or two to the width of the great room. Maybe you plan all flat ceilings (easy), but you could do a perpendicular gable through this space and perhaps have a scissors truss or cathedral rafters to get some openness.

You can do HVAC in the crawlspace, just be sure ducts are well sealed and insulated. A sloppy job can leak a lot of $$$$. Alternatively, strive to get all ductwork inside the insulated space. Then leaks don't matter too much.

[Dave43950]

I noticed you have 2.5 baths for 2 bedrooms.  Do you need that many toilets / bathtubs?  (I'm one to talk.  I won't tell you how many commodes are in my house).

Is the patio / deck door the main entrance to your house?

No, there is a front entry way into the foyer, mainly for visitors when we pull into the garage we will go in through the laundry/mud room and then into the kitchen (In the future I'll appreciate this idea due to the saved time, and work bringing groceries in. )

These images of the entry way are from when I had planned on having the garage in the front, but the entry will still be the same. (Those aren't my colors either, I'll be using earth stone w/ beige siding probably.)






There is 2.5 baths as a convenience, guests who still will not have to carry all of their clothes, shampoos and etc to the hall just to take a shower, and when we have people over for dinner, or what have you, they will be able to use the half bath without going through someone's bedroom.

I like your plan but I might try adding a foot or two to the width of the great room. Maybe you plan all flat ceilings (easy), but you could do a perpendicular gable through this space and perhaps have a scissors truss or cathedral rafters to get some openness.

I have thought about pulling it over a little more, I would like to do cathedral in the great room so that it looks much bigger when you walk into it, which is also why there are no walls separating room from room.



Front elevation:

(Once again, not the final colors. We'll be going with earth stones, and a beige siding. As long as the wife doesn't change her mind )

[MushCreek]

I've been researching a lot of this stuff for the last couple years. SIP's are attractive, but they will cost more in materials than stick built. It turns out that the most important insulation is in the attic, not the walls, so a SIP roof is a good idea. The SIP's I like best are metal- nothing to rot, or for bugs to eat. At one time, I thought I wanted to do all metal sips, with metal framing inside. The economy being what it is, I realize it's just too expensive. I've also looked at ICF's, and feel they're even better than SIP's. The cost of materials is roughly the same, but they make a very strong house. Probably ICF walls and SIP roof would be the very best. Either method is fairly easy for DIY, but the guy pouring the concrete into the ICF's had better know his stuff! If I do ICF, I'll stack them myself, but hire the actually pouring. One down-side I've heard about SIP's is noise transmission. They are worse than stick for transmitting low frequency noise. That may not be an issue for you. ICF's are very quiet- you're basically building a concrete vault, with foam inside and out. Our current house is concrete block, and you can't hear anything outside unless you are by a window. One problem with either method is wiring and plumbing. You shouldn't put plumbing on an outside wall, but you do have to deal with wiring. You can channel the foam, or add shallow studs inside to create a gap. Some SIP's can be bought with wiring conduit built in, but that requires a lot of prior planning. I think the biggest advantage of SIP's and ICF over stick-built is how tight the house is, which translates into lower energy costs. Stick-built homes have thousands of holes, compared to none or few for a properly built SIP or ICF home. Great strides have been made, though. A layer of foam between the sheathing and siding, carefully taped to seal it can dramatically improve the performance of stick-built. A friend of mine recently built his own ICF home in TN. He said the material costs ran about $6 a square foot of wall. My design has 160 linear feet of wall, at 10' high, 1600 square feet of wall, or $9600 in material. SIP's are a little cheaper; maybe $5/sq ft. Of course, you still have to put a roof on it, and siding and drywall to finish the walls.

[Dave43950]

     I'm afraid to say that our project will be taking the back burner for a few weeks. A few Sundays ago an elderly lady from church asked me to do a little side job for her, so I did. I did it at cost, and of course she offered to pay for my time and I refused. She did anyways, and it ended in the church plate. I'm not sure if it was dumb luck, or one of god's many blessing but by word of mouth I've had a few side jobs this past week and I've been too tired to get anything done for myself. This week is shaping up the same, I did however call it quits early today due to some unforeseen rain that we got. I'll probably putter around on the computer an hour or so and then go lay down. I can't express how much my ankles and knees have been hurting.  My wife keeps trying to tell me that I can't do it how I used to. Do we ever listen? 
     Anywho, I just wanted to update y'all. Hope everything is good on your end.

-Dave

[Dave43950]

     Talk about an unfortunate chain of events... Saturday, August 22nd I woke up at around 6am to start working for the day, I showered, dressed and left as I was driving about 45 - 50 minutes south. I worked from about 8am - 12:20 when my wife called and was yelling that there was water in the basement so I was trying to talk how through turning the water off to the water heater because it had blown but she was panicking too much so I rushed home and about 9 inches of water had already poured out onto the basement floor...

     Between working on other's problems, and trying to work on my own this week will be long and tiring. But, I know my plans will be brought to life soon enough, and I need not worry about it. Stressing about life's problems doesn't solve them at all.

Hope everything is good on y'alls end.

-Dave