Help choosing a flexible and expandable electric system.

Started by MartyM, November 16, 2011, 09:13:55 PM

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MartyM

I am taking a some what unusual approach to my cabin build. Phase one is a 8 x 18 ft tiny house on a flatbed trailer.  This phase is the core and  contains my kitchen, bathroom a small sitting area and a sleeping loft. The tiny house is being built in my driveway and will be towed down to very rural north central Arkansas.  The only building code I need to be concerned with is a septic system. The lack of codes is a good thing because the tiny size would be a problem from the start in most places. I want to follow code or at least best building practices as best as I can.  Phase one could be as far as I ever get and I think it would be a great little vacation place in the woods.  I hope to be able to move on to phase two and add on a bedroom and a large 3 season sun room.  Phase three Will be a 24x30 ft wood shop.  If I can complete phase two I will move in full time.

I do have easy access to the grid. But talking to my closest neighbor I can count on power outages 3 or 4 times a year and we are at the end of a run and can be the last ones the electric company gets to.  :(    The last big ice storm he was without power for over 2 weeks.  So for full time living a generator is a must,  a small solar system for a few lights and a water pump would be nice too.

The tiny house or the  core I'm building could easily be run on a 30 amp box. But I want room to add at least 100amps for my dream wood shop.  The simple solution would be just start with a 200amp box and add what ever I want. The problem is its very  hard to find room for a 200amp box in a tiny house where I am fighting for every inch.

I hope that's enough detail to bring us to my questions. :-\    Is it possible to have a 200amp  service box and meter on the electric company's pole then run a line to say a 30amp sub panel in the tiny house?  Assuming that is doable is there any danger or drawbacks in using a 30amp generator transfer panel as my tiny house main fuse box?

http://www.menards.com/main/electrical/rough-electrical/load-centers/generator-panels-transfer-switches/transfer-switch-kit-for-generators-up-to-7500-watts/p-1450375-c-6436.htm

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

MountainDon

Placing the service panel on the outside wall might be the easiest solution.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


MountainDon

Will you need to be concerned about power outages when you are absent? Like will you leave an electric fridge running in between visits?
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Rob_O

Quote from: MartyM on November 16, 2011, 09:13:55 PMIs it possible to have a 200amp  service box and meter on the electric company's pole then run a line to say a 30amp sub panel in the tiny house?

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

Depends on your utility. Something like this http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/internet-dms/btlv/Residential/Residential/doc_Meter%20Combinations%20and%20Mains/MC0408B1200T.pdf would be perfect for your needs.
"Hey Y'all, watch this..."

Native_NM

At our equipment yard we have exactly that - large exterior panel on the pole and we run power to sub panels in out buildings via conduit.   We also power a semi-permanent tralier with its own 100 amp panel.  I'll snap some pics tomorrow.  Note that our setup is 30+ years old and I don't know if it's code-compliant today. 

Side story: a couple years ago bad guys clipped the fence and stripped the wire from the conduit.  It was mucho dinero to replace 50 feet of wire and the conduit.  This was in an industral park in Albuquerque.  If your place is going to sit unattended, plan accordingly.  My buddy in north Arkansas tells me they have a huge meth problem and anything not tied down can dissapear in a day.  The number of RV trailer thefts is skyrocketing in rural areas as they make great mobile labs.  They torch them after using them for a bit.  The new cordless tools, especially the grinders, make short work of fences, locks, and conduit.   >:(

I agree with Don that for a small place an exterior panel is the best solution. 
New Mexico.  Better than regular Mexico.


MartyM

Thanks for the quick Thanks for the quick replies folks. :)

Don, while the cabin is in strictly vacation use I don't see any reason to leave the refrigerator on,  it could be months in between visits.  So power outages while I am gone shouldn't be a problem.

I have to admit I am concerned about exterior mounted box not just for security reasons but aesthetics as well.  The good news is the best exterior wall to mount a panel, also happens to be a wall that will be inside the future mud room.

I have done quite a bit of small electrical work on the 3 homes I have owned from just adding outlets and lights to adding multiple circuit's for a finishing a basement and wiring my entire wood shop from an existing panel. How ever  I don't have any experience in selecting main panels or adding sub panels. The generator transfer switch has me scratching my head a bit as well.   I hate paying someone to do some thing I can do my self.  I would like to get myself enough of an education on the subject that I can at least be sure I select the right panels for my intended use.  Does any one have a link or two where I can start my education?  ???

Native_NM



http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wiring/2005015726007600.html


If your goal is a main panel on the pole, it only needs enough breakers to cover the load of the subpanel.  I forgot to get you pics today, but my main box has only six or eight high-amp breakers. 
New Mexico.  Better than regular Mexico.

Don_P

A mobile home entrance pole or pedestal typically has a panel mounted under the meter base that contains the service disconnect and several breakers that can be run to the building and any equipment such as a heat pump. This stands alone in the yard, not directly attached to the building. The lines exiting that panel can be run down the pole in conduit for underground or back up the pole in conduit and weatherhead for overhead service to the building. I had a small general service mounted on the outer wall of my sawshed, it could have been on a yard pole. From the meter base it feeds to a disconnect directly below with several breakers and then runs inside in conduit to the breaker panel. Pretty much the same scenario as a mobile home. My reasoning was that I could feed other subpanels from the outside box and in the event of a fire I wanted to be able to run by outside and kill the power.

Rob_O

Quote from: Don_P on November 18, 2011, 07:45:07 AM
A mobile home entrance pole or pedestal typically has a panel mounted under the meter base that contains the service disconnect and several breakers that can be run to the building and any equipment such as a heat pump. This stands alone in the yard, not directly attached to the building.

Not all utilities will allow this, and if you do things this way all the subpanels fed by the main need to have the neutrals and grounds isolated and fed back to the main panel separately
"Hey Y'all, watch this..."