Driveway Help

[optionguru]

I've been reading a lot of the previous posts about putting in a driveway.  My right of way is an old logging road that is still pretty clear but is a bit wet.  I need to improve about 60 feet to have better access to the lot.  The water during a decent rain runs parralel to the road about 3/4 of the way and then crosses the road to go down the slope.  

I can get bank run gravel for pretty cheap ($4 per yard) so I had thought about building it up about 1 to 2 feet thick and then putting a piece of culvert pipe every 20 feet to let water pass from one side to the other.  My concern is that the first few yards of gravel I brought in didnt seem to pack down while it was raining.  It made more of a rocky sandy soup.  Was this just because  I hadn't compacted it yet or am I using the wrong material as a base for the road?

Thanks,
Peter

[southernsis]

I use to build and design road for the Federal Highway Admin. You are using the wrong base material. The first to go down should be at least 1 1/2 inch. This gives a firm base to start with. Then 3/4 minus on top. You want to keep the water from crossing back and forth across the road. If you know someone with a grade have them cut you a V ditch on each side. Something else to consider is what kind of soil do you have?

[optionguru]

The soil seems to be a strange mix of a peat moss type material as well as fine dirt/top soil.  

Does anyone have a guess how much the 1 1/2 inch rock should cost per yard (not delivered).  I'm really lucky that I have a seemingly inexpensive sand and gravel company 10 miles from the lot.

How thick of a layer should the 1 1/2 inch rock be?

Thanks

[FarmerChad]

As an option you may ask the local gravel yard what they would recommend. I did, and lo'n'behold they suggested a product called
rail meal - a leftover from steel production. They supply it to the state for road building and such. Best part is that it is cheap. $9 per ton.
I ordered 20 tons to start my "path to freedom". Also known as the culvert. Anyhow, i believe that the size was 3/4 inch to dust.

[Amanda_931]

Good idea to ask locally what you need.

There are a lot of local names, especially for the dust-to-not-very-big stuff.

Crusher run around here.

Road-base somewhere.

And I think I've heard of at least one more--from up in Wisconsin or Minnesota.

[Rover]

Something that could help is to lay down a sheet of geotextile cloth first.  It is tough and doesn't rot.  It's not that expensive and comes in big rolls.  It will keep your good granular/rock material from mixing and sinking in with the existing material.

[optionguru]

Do you know if the rolls of the geotextile are manageable(sp??) by one person with a tractor? How big are the rolls?  Thanks

[Rover]

I've had subcontractors use it on my projects when I need temporary road access and don't want to keep spending money on more and more stone.  I wasn't standing around when the rolls showed up on site so I don't know roll diameters or widths.  
Mirafi seems to be a industry leader.  Here is their link  http://www.mirafi.com/.  It has a ton of info.  Sorry I can't look any further; I have a 4 day old and mom that need attention.

[optionguru]

Please don't apologize, I appreciate you giving me the web site.

I checked with the local sand and gravel pit and they quoted me $5.75 per ton of 1 1/2 inch crushed gravel if I pick it up.  At that price I think I can afford to build it up thick and then put the 3/4 inch on top of it as previously mentioned.  They told me that 1 yard is about 1 1/2 tons.  So that's about $8 per yard and I figure I'll need about 30 yards to make a 60 foot driveway 1 1/2 feet high and ten feet wide.  Then about 3 or 4 inches of 3/4 inch on top of that.  Does that sound right to everyone.  Am I missing something?

[Amanda_931]

Ask yourself--

How long will each load take to get, how awful will it be to unload (I no longer unload a yard of bark mulch unless I have help--and it's 45 minutes to an hour to go get it), how much gas will it take to make the 30 trips to the quarry, especially when they can probably deliver that and dump it somewhere in one load--charging you for the stone and at least $100 for the delivery.

Wouldn't be worth it for me to make all those trips--and the quarry is farther than the bark mulch people.  

I keep meaning to get some more stone--and chert and, shudder, bark mulch.

Old boyfriend kept adding gravel to his long long drive--every year, I think.  Geotextiles sound like a pretty good idea.

[FarmerChad]

Remember that a couple of tons doesn't mount to much of anything. Usually the supplier can tell you how much you need based on your dimensions. For instance, in my case, I wanted to fill in a spot that was approx 20 ft. x 11 ft. by 2.5 ft. They told me to find the average dimensions because it was a ditch, a v shape really. They estimated 16 tons of product. (meanwhile I thought they were nuts, no way it would take that much... I was wrong ) Ask about delivery, you might get it for free. My local company charges $35 delivery per load. Regardless if it is 1 lb or 16 tons. But, order 17 tons and you get free delivery. I ordered 20 tons. At $9 per ton, in the end I only paid an extra $1 to get another ton. Pretty good deal. And besides, you can always use the extra material.

[optionguru]

I started the driveway today.  I brought two loads of 1 1/2 inch stone,  4 tons per load.  This was a pretty good start



until my 4x4 1 ton dump truck got stuck in the mud with 8,000 pounds of stone in it.  What's that you say?  Just dump the stone out, dohhh, on the second load my dump bed decided that it would short out and not lift.  I then proceeded to push and shovel out all of the stone manually.  I tried to dig it out but the frame had sunken enough that there was no way I was going to get out.  Needless to say my day had taken a turn for the worse.  Since I was in the middle of the sticks I had to walk about a mile to the closest traveled road and find someone nice enough to bring me to the closest town to find a tow truck.  The tow truck was the right tool for the job, after about 2 minutes and $60 I was free again.

Here's a pic of where the driveway needs to go.



I think I'm on the right track it's just going to take a lot of material.  

[Sassy]

I had to laugh, optionguru - not at you, but at your day, sounds like one of Glenn's typical days!   :-/ .  I've been putting a 2nd coat of plaster on the roof over where Glenn did the 1st layer - anyway, after mixing 4 cement mixers full - I'd run out of sand & cement - asked Glenn to get me another bucket of sand with his bobcat - 1st he had to unload some wood from his truck so was about done with that when the fuel filter clogged up again on the forklift, so he had to put a new filter in that to finish the 1st job he started so that he could get the sand for me.

My day didn't go as planned either   my son was supposed to help me today, then decided he couldn't - so I got to carry the dry cement in buckets because I couldn't carry the 90# bag by myself, then mix up the stuff, then carry it up on the roof that is steep, the hillside is steep, the cement mix was heavy...  I also filled the big wheelbarrow full of gravel because I thought my son would be here & he could haul it to the other side of the property uphill... but noooo, I ended up pushing the full wheelbarrow myself - after having shoveled the dang thing full, I wasn't about to  dump it back out again   ... got quite a bit of the roof done - am happy about that   ... will probably be sore tomorrow!  

Hope your day tomorrow   goes better!

[glenn kangiser]

You have to remember that 4 wheel drive doesn't mean you won't get stuck.  It just means that when you do it will be a lot harder to get out. :-/

Thanks for the pix.  I have a similar truck in a Dodge 1 ton 4x4 dually with a 7 ton dump bed.  I was wondering how much I could get on it -- You are about 2 1/2 yards?

[Amanda_931]

I keep thinking that about the only thing I'd trade my big pickup for would be a small dump truck like that.

But my truck's 4WD!

(and extended cab and an 8-foot bed.  Which means that after a couple of tow trucks rescuing me from trying to use 4WD, the only time I have used it was in situations where the front-wheel drive car--or even the small truck that it replaced--would have had no problems at all)

[glenn kangiser]

You can get a dump bed kit for your pickup, Amanda.  Northern equipment or Redneck Trailers has them.



http://www2.northerntool.com/product/9923_9923.htm

[Amanda_931]

Yes, but it would still take 20-30 trips to the quarry to get the amount of rock that one dump truck could bring me.

Be nice for bark mulch, though.

[glenn kangiser]

You got that right.  I got mine because I may want to haul road patching blacktop but don't want to buy a whole dump truck load at one time - about $1100 last time.  Also - for any other thing I want to haul like wood, sand -gravel etc.  It is 200 to 300 a 10 yd load around here depending on where you get it.

[optionguru]

I guess we all have hell days, as long as we get home safe at the end I guess we can all just laugh about it.  Maybe you just have to wait a day or two to start laughing after you stop fuming.

I must say that the 4x4 1 ton dump has been a great work horse.  Like glenn said it's perfect for odd lot size jobs.  We plan to use this for my garbage company as a satellite truck to pick up on the back roads and then dump into my soon to be acquired packer truck.

One pain is the truck has a plow hook-up on front that I never use, this is the second time that 8-10 inches it hangs down has become like an anchor in the mud, gravel or dirt.

As far as capacity, I've yet to push it to much, the most I've done so far was yesterday with right at 4 tons.  Do you know how much they can generally handle?

Sassy, I just looked at your site http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/ I must say, that place is incredible and creative.

Thanks,
Peter

[Sassy]

Thanks, Peter!  I haven't been keeping up with the blog real well - there are a lot more pictures on the Underground Cabin in the owner-builder section on CountryPlans.  

Your land looks really pretty - very scenic - wonderful to have the lake to look at, too.  

[glenn kangiser]

Sassy was out plastering again today.  She's done a great job on that section of roof.  It's been a bit of a problem area as two roofs, two walls and a sunscoop come together there and it is also a walkway to the upper garden.  Hopefully this will fix it permanently.

I was hoping you could tell me how much these trucks could carry, Peter.  I got the heaviest load range tires - about 2600 lbs each x 4 =10400 - round figures  tire capacity on the rear axle. Say 5200 on the front so tires would go 15600 capacity -   Mine is 11000 gvw but hey -who's counting?  I put the 14000 lb hoist on for extra stability -side hills etc but you are just supposed to dump straight -- and I didn't want to ever have to shovel off a load by hand. :-/

I guess if nothing breaks, they are not overloaded, eh?

[Amanda_931]

Or the truck weight guys don't get you.

(One of my near neighbors can hardly get his small--and way way way overloaded log truck up the hill.  I think I've seen him talking to the truck weight guys--stopped on the highway.  And the owner of one of the sawmills he delivers to told me he had turned it over.)

[glenn kangiser]

I avoid them like the plague.  I spent a few years long hauling and seemed like I could bring home a new trophy every couple weeks--- or give the wrong answer to an official bribe request and get logs checked and a fine.

The weigh station official at Shiprock, New Mexico told me I was one sack of onions overweight - I said - no way -not realizing he wanted a sack of low quality rotting onions off my truck - that failure to respond properly to a bribe request  cost me $50 if I remember right -- and that little weasel was one of the cheap ones.

[JRR]

Overloading a truck on private property is one thing, but putting a overloaded rig on the highway is almost "criminal".  It's not breaking something on the truck that's the issue ... "safe driving" is the issue.

It's easy to see that the brakes quickly become incapable when overtaxed.  A little more elusive is the fact that the center of gravity of the whole rig usually shifts "upward" as we overload.  Of course, it really depends on the density of the load.  Some overloaded trucks become very easy to tilt.

Ever seen a overloaded, top heavy, hauler coming down the road?  Too frequently seen here in the Southeast where the loads are often stones or logs.

I am confident anyone on this forum would compensate by driving extremely slow if his truck was a bit overloaded.   But just recently, a driver approaching Dunlap Tenn did not manage his truck very well and it rolled over on several vehicles that were qued up at a stop sign.  No deaths, but several injuries.  Don't know what the load was, or if there was an overload, or any other details ... but am just reminded of how dangerous the highway is.

We all need to be careful!

[optionguru]

We've had a recent increase in the DOT pulling people over for no apparent reason.  Most of my garbage business is at night and weekends so I've been pretty lucky.  I'm sure once I get my rear load packer truck my luck will run out, since it's so much bigger.