How do you handle security?

Started by NM_Shooter, March 25, 2008, 11:38:42 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

NM_Shooter

I'm curious how you protect both health and safety on your properties, especially those of you who are very remote.

My property is an hour by rock and mud road.  I pass through three very large ranches (three locked gates) to get in.  It is a jarring and unforgiving path.  There are issues with poachers on our property, although I have been told that when they see owners the poachers skedaddle out pretty quick. 

I'm concerned about three main threats:

1)  Two legged predators
2)  Four legged predators (bears and lions)
3)  Accidental injury.  I will probably be on this property alone on occasion.

I am a competitive shooter, and am competent with all sorts of firearms.  I wear a firearm most of the time, and my oldest daughter is fairly competent too.  My wife and youngest daughter are unskilled.  Besides, I think that guns should be a last resort anyway, and would prefer to flee than fight (nobody ever found themselves in court due to running away from a fight).  I am contemplating the location of the cabin, as either being hidden in the woods, or more out in the open.  I'd like neighbors to see the cabin, but I rarely have company there, so I suspect that having a cabin in the open exposes me to risk.  Thoughts????

For four legged problems (two of the cabins up there have bear paw prints on the sides, and one has a corner chewed on), Counter Assault spray first, lead second.

And what about #3?  I am wondering if I can check in with a local law enforcement office on the way in and the way out.  Leave a map and GPS coordinates with them, and a drop dead time that I will be out.  Sort of a flight plan for the day.  Does anybody do this?
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

glenn kangiser

I hated flight plans because there was always the chew out if you forgot to close your plan and they went looking for you.  Best way is to tell someone the day you should be back and have them check if they haven't heard from you a day or two late in my opinion and preferably a mountain or something you can call in from occasionally if you decide to stay longer - otherwise the alternative is to not be able to change your mind and stay longer -- you must leave or risk the search party.

Peter Nap has had good luck with game cameras for 2 legged intruders.

I don't worry myself too much about it.  I'm sure hunters or hikers will someday discover the body.  I'll probably ruin their day.  Sorry about that in advance-- whoever you are. [crz]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


ScottA

You worry too much. Just use your common sence. Nothing in this life is 100% safe. IMO you are more likely to have problems with people in town than out in the bush.

glenn kangiser

#3
I think this stems from the training we receive from the government and lawyers.


The government will see to it that we are safe -- at the cost of our freedom and our kids lives --- but most fall for the trap of wanting security.

...and Lawyers -- they will help make someone else responsible for a percentage of the take.

I think we all need to just become pioneers -- interact with our friends and neighbors and leave the parasites out of it.

For cabin location, I prefer secluded at least.  Makes them have to look harder before they can steal.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

kenhill

They have electric fences for  bears.  We create bear boards for stairs by taking plywood and pounding nails all the way through them and placing them on the stairs.  We also shutter windows.

You can get one of those SPOT transmitters that you can hit a button and send an e-mail to someone saying you are ok or it sends out your GPS coordinates if you push distress.  They are $150.  Friends can also watch where you are through Google Earth.


glenn kangiser

There is no option for real time viewing in Google Earth I didn't think --- most pix are at least a few months old.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

StinkerBell

A big dog.

We had a large 100# dog named Peanut. His nick name was Bear Bait. He did his job. He scared away Bears. I am certain that a cougar could probably take him, but he would have given more then enough time to escape or react. Peanut is no longer with us, and currently I have to rat terrors. They will do their duty with rats and small animals, but not with Bears. I hope when we move to our property we can get another large dog.

muldoon

I understand and share your concern with security.  It has been somthing I have considered from various points of view as well. 

I think security is a process, and not a product.  Nothing you can buy will make you secure and nothing you spend will get you there either.  However, a layered approach and attention to the process will get you a long way ... a real long way.  I'm fairly sure everyone has heard the anecdote that says something along the lines of two men were walking through the plains of africa and see a lion eying them hungrily.  One guy drops to his knees and starts tieing up his running shoes really tight.  The other guy says you dont really think your going to outrun the lion do you?  Nope, but I dont have to .. I only have to outrun you.    The same principle applies here, get under the radar, dont be the low hanging fruit.  It sounds like your there..  good grief, an hour over rocky muddy and 3 locked gates.  Your off the beaten path for sure.  Building out in the sticks has some advantages in terms of being off the radar, as people dont generally go walking for hours into the woods looking for someone to rob.  You mentioned you do have some poacher problems.  I would lay good odds that those 3 ranches you pass through have workers or friends of the workers that hunt the area.  If you befriend them you might even get to hunt their properties as well. 

Here are some things you can do to enhance what you have though. 

Game cams, especially hidden ones.  Take a look at the community around building your own:  Go here and lurk a spell to get some ideas.  http://www.chasingame.com/forum/index.php

Speak with the local game warden and sherrif, sometimes just talking with the locals about whats going on has a way of resolving things.  In alot of small towns the sheriffs know exactly whats going on and might mention it to the people responsible over the next few days.  Odd how it works out like that in small towns. 

For 2 legged threats, really you'v done much more than most and liklely shouldn't have too much of a problem.  However, if your concerned about tomorrow and really want to tighten up I think you should read these two books:
http://www.amazon.com/Secure-Home-Joel-Skousen/dp/1568610556 - he is a security consultant who specializes in self sustainablility houses. 
and
http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-Collapse-Turbulent-Expanded/dp/1425734073/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206474629&sr=1-1
- which to be honest was a lousy novel but had alot of ideas about security of a rural house in it. 

At the end of it, and aside from the obvious things like having a fence and locking gate, your best security will come from the relationships you build with your neighbors.  My neighbors are good people who do help look out for me since I do not live there.  It makes all the difference in the world.  If someone were going to come find your property to rob you it is highly likely they would have to cross your neighbors places first - if they are on your side your going to fair much better. 

glenn kangiser

Right about the friends with the neighbors, Muldoon.

My neighbor is ex-LAPD and my easements cross his place.  His crosses our other place.

He often has friends who want to see the place, so I told him just to show them through it - even if we are not there.   We still don't bother each other with day to day things and give each other our respective space, but anytime help is wanted or needed we are there.

He interrogates strangers who show up on the mountain.  He has a lot more guns than I do. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


MountainDon

[1] Well, IMO you probably have enough locked gates already to discourage the casual trespasser.  Those and the general condition of the final approach road.   :D  Most poachers probably would rather make themselves scarce when/if they heard you coming. We have several pairs of binoculars so MTL we'll have a pair with us most of the time. They let us spy out anyone we might see from afar, helping to decide to approach or not.

[2] Not much you can do to keep the animals at bay when you're not there. For when you are there a bell(s) that are worn everywhere, every time anyone is outside can lend safety by making the animals more aware of your presence. You probably already know that. Bear boards sound like an idea, although my paranoia rears its ugly head and wonders what crazy bad things could happen with a wacky judge if some trespasser fell on them. Farfetched? Maybe, but nothing is too nuts.

A game camera or two would be nice to have on several points. (a) they could provide useful info, nice pictures of the trespassers, as one did for peter Nap a short time ago. (b) they will likely capture some interesting wildlife.

The bear spray would work on nasty 2 legged varmints as well.  ;D

As much as I like my .45 revolvers I'm beginning to think that a pump shotgun makes a better useful weapon when bears might be the target.

[3] Injuries. We are fortunate in that in many places on and around our property we have good cell phone reception. Coverage is not ubiquitous though. Great coverage right around the cabin though.  8)

I like our plan of placing the cabin sort of hidden in the trees, rather than out in the open. It may escape detection from a casual trespasser a little easier. We will have shutters to help prevent easy access by 2 or 4 legged varmints. If I'm up there alone my wife knows when to be concerned. That wouldn't do me much good if I felled a tree on top of myself and wasn't due back for a day or two. There are some chances one must take. I try to be careful. If we're both up there we notify our son or a friend knows when we're expecting to return.  There's no law enforcement agency convenient for a personal drop by, and the ranger station is closed about half the time we'd be passing by either up or down. 

In reality one is probably in more personal danger on the drive up and down or in/around big towns. Although the exception to that rule is why I like a non concealed firearm when in the boonies. It won't frighten off a bear but I believe does have an effect on 2 legged varmints who may have evil deeds in mind.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Willy

I do it with my Mini-14 and 12 ga pump shotgun stagger loaded with slugs and 00 Buck 3 inch mags. The 3 dogs weighting in at aroound 500 lbs total combined is also a deterant. If I am out in the toolies the shot gun is nice it can stop any living thing in the USA! Mark

John_C

What's the old saying...  "I have a gun, a pickup truck, and a shovel".

The injury thing is a problem.  I ride my bicycle most evenings, usually 15 or 20 miles up and down the semi private dead end road by my house.  I tell folks that what is good about my ride is what's bad about my ride. I often go an hour or so and don't see a car, another person or even a dog.  Deer and turkeys are the main hazards. About two years ago, at the end of the road by the river,  I fell and broke my hip. It was about 45 minutes until someone found me.  They had to drive a couple miles to get a cell phone signal. Seven weeks after surgery I was riding again.  IMHO, if that sort of thing really bothers you, go live in the city. It's why they are called remote areas. 

glenn kangiser

I have a shotgun, a rifle and a four wheel drive and a country boy can survive.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

John_C

With your heavy machinery a shovel would be superfulous ;D


StinkerBell

A Kubota with a Back Hoe can help hid anything six feet under....... ;D

williet

I lock the doors, (house and bedroom), and have a .38 in the night stand. I also have a loaded shotgun in the bedroom closet. If we're not here, they can have it all...if I am here, I will shoot, explain it and clean up the mess.....Don't come in our house unless you're invited .... cops and homeland security included. Alabama says my house is mine and I can kill you to protect it......and...I still believe in a LEGAL search warrent.....(even if Bush and Cheney don't!)

The junk we own ain't worth gettin killed for or killin for....our lives are.

Rob me when I'm not home
My junk's yours.....and I'll cry
Rob me when I am home
Your junk's mine...and you'll die!

 

cholland

Game cameras can work well for getting pictures, but hide them well.  We use them at work (I'm a Biologist) and occasionally they disappear.
In my neighborhood I havent had much stolen but I have suffered broken windows and graffiti.  Quite a pain.
When it comes down to it a gun is just as useful on a homestead as a shovel when you need it.  For two and four legged varments, or if you raise livestock of any kind, there just may be an instance where you need to put something down and Im not cutting the head off of anything live but a chicken.
As for locking things up.  I've seen bears tear through just about anything if there is something they want on the other side... including two 12 inch diameter logs that were part of a cabin wall.  People can be downright distructive... locks keep honest people out.  Locally I read a story in the paper about a couple of folks being caught cutting into a gun safe with a torch the other week.
The more remote you are the less likely someone is going to go through the trouble to haul your stuff out.
These days it seems the problem is kids with no parental guidance causing trouble more than someone looking to get something for nothing.

glenn kangiser

Do you find that they come up from the valley or local, cholland?

Grafiti makes me think Valley
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

NM_Shooter

Quote from: ScottA on March 25, 2008, 12:39:43 PM
You worry too much. Just use your common sence.

Hah!  You don't know the half of it.  Worry is conditioned in.  I'm a EE who used to design redundant controls for sub sea blow out preventers.  We used to examine systems for failure points and make sure problems did not happen.  My wife is VERY patient.  I am the guy who had 600 gallons of water stored in a kiddie pool in the garage on New Years 1999, along with more canned beans than I'd be comfortable admitting. ;D  But I was also the guy with extra food / meds / water purification when we got stuck in the bush in Canada because the weather kept the planes out.

I live in the desert, and we don't so much as picnic on the west mesa without 5 gallons of water, sleeping bags, fuel, and extra chow in the truck.  You know the weirdo survivalist on the movie "Tremors"?  I make him look like a cub scout.  I always have a plan, and a backup plan.  Too many folks head off in search of the great outdoors with zero clue on how to take care of themselves.  If I get in trouble, it is going to be because of the malevolence of something / someone, or because of some completely random accident (anybody ever read the book "The Black Swan"?)

We suspect that the land is being poached by the rancher family that we lease our land to.  They come out on the property once or twice a week to check fences and cattle.  This area is old land grant property, and some of the folks around Northern NM still have bad feelings about "new rich white land owners".  Any Anglo who has spent any time in Mora valley knows what I am talking about.  I don't go up there without my beautiful Spanish wife :)

We've had a couple of cabins get broken into, and stuff stolen, but no confrontations.  If it were just me, I would not give a crap.  But I have kids, and that throws off the nature of the response.  The best safety is a big group of buddies. 

Anybody want to buy some land in my corporation?   ;D
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

glenn kangiser

Sounds like you'd be safe to hang out with, NM.  We also were at least prepared on Y2K -- Doesn't hurt to be ready.

BOE -- I used to weld on well heads --very securely to keep them from blowing off -- on land of course.  I was the only one in the area who could do it properly.  One other welder they tried had so much weld inside they couldn't get their drill through the hole -- and he later called me and told me he was going to run me out of business.  I had worked for his grandfather.  Unfortunately he went out of business.  I'm still here 34 years later...at least the last time I checked I was. [crz]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


MountainDon

I carry way too much stuff in the Jeep, or so it seems to many. To me too at times when I'm trying to find space for something else. Water: some for me/us, some for the Jeep, although we'll share if need be.  :D Tools, some parts, tire plugs and so on. (I have a left & right front axle complete with u-joints installed... beats changing a broken axle u-joint on the trail using a hammer, socket and rock.)

Northern NM is a different place. Very closed feeling to outsiders. Everybody is related to everybody, or so it seems. Also home to some of NM's finest illicit drug labs.  :o 
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

glenn kangiser

You seem to have the same set of tools I carry, Don.  Necessity is the mother of invention, and I would have probably done OK in the stone age.  I use rocks for lots of things.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

John_C

 rofl rofl
QuoteNorthern NM is a different place.......Everybody is related to everybody
rofl
From the land that brought you Deliverance.  Where the Hatfields & McCoys are kin (Actually they were/are kin)


Is that a tip off mount on the scope? 

MountainDon

... a Lever Scout with quick release rings. 
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

John_C

I don't shoot well with iron sights anymore.  I have several rifles with leupold 1.5 - 5 scopes. They handle very fast at low power.  My kin to your rifle is a 30-30 Winchester Trapper with a 16" barrel. I bought it many years ago because it would fit between the wheel wells of my Jeep. I don't like shooting it but it's the one I keep handy because, well, it's handy.