CountryPlans Forum

General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: Toyotaboy on March 16, 2012, 09:21:56 PM

Title: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 16, 2012, 09:21:56 PM
 w*

Well I've been lurking here for about 4-5 years. Time to share!

Please pull up a chair and your favorite beverage this is a bit long but worth the read.

We bought 40 acres in Northern Wisconsin back in 2006. We wanted to build a place for weekend getaways and a hunting cabin. We bought near the town where my dad grew up. I spent a lot of time on the family fox ranch as a kid that my grandparents use to run. They raised mink & fox for the pelts the 30's and 40's. It's no longer a working ranch but my 86 year old uncle still lives there.

Several of my cousins bought property in the area for hunting over the years. We bought the property from one my cousins. He needed the cash. Then the problems started.

We found out thru the DNR that the property was mostly wetlands and they were not going to let us build anything on it. The DNR agent was not very helpful. His standard line was, "I'm not going to tell you what you can do, I'm only going to tell you what you can't do."  Great customer service! And my taxes pay this guy's wages. Then he told me to find another piece of property to build on! I was furious!

The property had an old barn foundation from the turn of the century. The foundation was located 100 ft off the road in a field. The old driveway and culvert were gone. Aerials showed the barn and some other buildings in the 20's and 30's. When I showed these to the DNR agent his response was," I don't care what it was, it's a wetland now and your not touching it."

Well with lots of investigating and talking to lawyers and reading thru books and books of wetland codes and landowner's rights we found out that the DNR had to give me vehicle access to the property. We also found out that the old barn foundation was NOT a wetland and that we could build on it.

To make a long story short the DNR agreed to let us build on the old foundation site which is only 20x24 feet. They also authorized ($350 permit fee) a culvert and a parking pad right off the road large enough for two cars. Basically 20x 25 ft. However they would NOT authorize a drive way to the building site. They would also NOT authorize a pit toilet either. I was told to get a metro unit and park it on the parking pad (Yeah and the local kids would have had a field day tipping it over every chance they got.). I also could not have a well because I would then have to have septic. And the DNR would not authorize any digging.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4760.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4761.jpg)
This is the parking pad with the culvert.


So two years ago I had the parking pad and culvert installed. Then I had to put up gates to keep people from dumping garbage and the kids using it as a place to park with their girl friends. Nothing like showing up with your family and finding beer bottles and condoms laying all over. We also have bear hunters that think the can park and hunt anywhere their dogs chase the bears. So the gates had to go up.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4879.jpg)
Truck(cousins truck, I drive a Toyota Tundra) with old telephone poles that I purchased from my uncle who still lives on the old family fox ranch.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4887.jpg)

Me dumping in bags of ready mix. We hand dug the holes to almost 6 ft with the post hole digger.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4903.jpg)
My cousin hanging the cattle gates.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4939.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4940.jpg)
We were off with our measurements. We had measured another gate that had different hinge hardware.
So the gates don't completely come together in the middle. I had wanted a 6 inch gap but ended up with a bit more.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4944.jpg)
Both gates hung and chained.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4941.jpg)
No trespassing sign hung. It's a bit of a problem in this area.

When I bought the property my cousin included two old Farmall Tractors. I have a Farmall H and a Farmall M.(They are a total blast by the way.) We hook up a 6 ft wide mower deck and mow all the trails. We make it a guy's weekend prior to the opening of bow season.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_4536.jpg)
Me on my Farmall M. Some day I'd like to restore it.

I use the tractor with the 6 ft mower deck to mow the field around the old foundation. Boy's and their toys!
It's pretty fun until it gets stuck. There are a couple of hole from when the back hoe came out and checked to see how
deep the top soil was. When it rains and in the spring it's pretty wet.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_6317.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_6314.jpg)

So last July I had the old foundation removed. My cousins, new a local logger with a back hoe and a dump truck. So he removed the old foundation and hauled it away for $400. A pretty good deal. I then covered the site with gravel. My concern was that the DNR would come by and tell me that it was now a wetland without the old foundation in place. Then they would not let me build. I had photos of the foundation removal but they are on my old phone and I have not been able to retrieve them yet.

I found out that barns at the turn of the century were fairly small. Farmers could survive off of 6-10 cows. Nothing like the barns & farms of today. We knew the foundation was from a barn because it had a gutter down the middle.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_1253.jpg)
Part of the old foundation.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_1255.jpg)

This was what was left after the foundation was removed. With the grass mowed you get a better idea of what I was dealing with.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_6825.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_6830.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_1253.jpg)
This image show the old foundation location in relation to the road. About a 100ft off the road.
My Toyota is parked on my parking pad just off the road.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: MountainDon on March 16, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
 [cool]    Love the Farmall's    :)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 16, 2012, 09:58:48 PM
The Farmall's are a ton of fun. They are also really easy to work on and do maintenance.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 17, 2012, 06:08:37 AM
 w*  It a shame that there is someone in charge of our land that doesn't have a given right by owneship.  But that is what it is.  As far as the gates that can be tricky.  At least yours was wide mine was narrow. d*  But there is always a remedy.  You can find 12" gate bolts. Take the diameter of the post from that you will gain the remainder.  So if you swapped them out on both sides you might come closer to meeting.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 17, 2012, 08:51:45 AM
Redoverfarm,

Yes about the gate hinges. I saw some 12inch ones at Fleet Farm. One of those things I can do in my spare time. It works for now.

All I wanted was a gravel drive up to the foundation location. Maybe 75 ft long and only 12 ft wide. The DNR said no. But it's ok for them to dump tons of rock and stone in the local river to widen the highway by 2 lanes. That's perfectly acceptable. Like 75 ft of driveway is going to upset the whole ecosystem of the planet! Don't get me started on this, it's a real sore spot. Like you said, it is what it is. (Ok deep breath)!

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: eclipse on March 17, 2012, 11:21:27 AM
I am enjoying your story so far and will be looking forward to the updates.

Your tale is just one more fine example of too much gubermint for my/your/our tax dollars! Good luck fighting the bureaucracy.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: ajbremer on March 18, 2012, 06:43:19 AM
I hope you'll be able to build there some day soon.

Wow, you dug them holes 6' deep? I remember the time that I had digging my 15 pier holes 3 feet deep by at least 2' square with a square bottom in 115 degree weather. Maybe your soil wasn't too hard, that's why it's a wetland?
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 18, 2012, 08:11:37 PM
We had to dig through the gravel and pit run they put down for the parking pad. That was huge pan in the a$$. 
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 18, 2012, 08:55:20 PM

So I was looking at several of Johns plans and decided that they might not work for my situation. The DNR told me the cabin could be the only building on the property. So I was not able to have a pole shed or barn. Then I saw Skagdrifter's cabin here on this site. I thought that this was going to be my solution. A cabin built above a garage! Perfect!

Anyway I hooked up with an architect who was out of work and looking for side jobs. We came up with a design of a cabin with a loft above the garage. The problem was that it was going to be very tall and top heavy. And it was also becoming too expensive.

Then the County Zoning guy called the Army Corp of Engineers because of the wetland issues. The Army Corp of Engineers agent called me. I had dealt with him in the past because of the wetland issues. He was not happy that I was going to build a two story structure on the old foundation site. His concerns were soil failure and the structure tipping over. So back to square one for a design.

 
After showing the architect John's plans here on the site we came up with a modified version. We decided on the 1 ½ story but with a 4 foot crawl space underneath the cabin. The whole thing was designed to be built on a slab. I submitted my plans and after about two weeks they were approved.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/Plans/sht12.jpg)
Main entrance facing south so the stairs and deck get the sun during the winter.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/Plans/sht392.jpg)
Back door side on the north side.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/Plans/sht22.jpg)
View from the road.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/Plans/sht52.jpg)



Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: SkagitDrifter on March 19, 2012, 10:50:40 AM

Looks great Ron!  Great pics.
Glad to see you making progress even with all the "help" from our government officials.  It sounds like you have kept your cool - in my experience you have play the game but be firm at the same time.  It' s a dance-frustrating as hell but worth the effort.
Keep at it - really looking forward to seeing your progress.
All the best-
T

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: mgramann on March 19, 2012, 11:23:21 AM
Before you make a decision, are you 100% positive that you have exhausted all possible options?

From what I have seen regarding the law, you can build there, but you need to take every possible step to limit the impact.

http://dnr.wi.gov/waterways/permit_apps/nr103.pdf (http://dnr.wi.gov/waterways/permit_apps/nr103.pdf)
http://dnr.wi.gov/waterways/shoreline_habitat/wetlands.html#grade (http://dnr.wi.gov/waterways/shoreline_habitat/wetlands.html#grade)

It sounds like if you can prove there is no other option, they can't stop you from building.

Also keep in mind that we have a new(and I think better) administration in Wisconsin.  Some letters to some officials may go a long way, especially since they aren't owned by extreme environmentalists anymore.

One last option, have they disclosed to you what exactly makes your land "wetlands?"  Sometimes it is something as simple as a plant.  PM me to continue this portion of the discussion further.

Edit-One other thought, have you talked to them about the possibility of a holding tank, instead of a septic tank?  It is very common for these to be used in wet areas.  It sounds like they are intentionally not giving you all of your options.  Unless you show them the law, and show them you know your rights, they will be of little help.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 19, 2012, 11:29:05 AM
Thanks Skagdrifter!

Lots more to come! I have had to bite my lip with government officials several times. I know it's well worth it in the long run. I hope to be hunting out of the place this fall.

Question to anyone: I have will have metal sofits installed under the eaves. Is there anything that I can install to keep the bugs from crawling in the sofit openings and up into the roof underneath the insulation. We have a huge problem with japanese beetles in the area. I know I won't be able to keep all the bugs out. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Wimmie
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 19, 2012, 11:44:39 AM
MGrammann,

Thanks for the info. I've been through that whole thing with the DNR agent. I even found documentation that stated if your project falls under 1/10 of an acre no dnr permit is needed. I even brought that to his attention. His reply was that it didn't apply to my situation. ( I questioned why not in my head.).

I even had the dnr and the Army Corp of Engineers agents do a soil test. They verified and showed me the oxygenated soil, therefore declaring it a wetland. Not far from where we are, I saw on another piece of property that they put in a rubble road thru a wet spot area for vehicles. Basically fist size rocks that allow the water to run thru them not impeding the flow. I even asked about that but the dnr guy said no. I really thing some of the rules are very subjective to the agent involved.

I know about the new and improved DNR they are touting now. I just don't know if I want to stir up the waters. I got permitted to build, so maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and move forward. I just don't know.  I'll pm you.

Wimmie
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: mgramann on March 19, 2012, 12:54:28 PM
The fact is, the agent has to follow the law.  Period.  If you can show that it is under 1/10th of an acre, they have no choice, NR103 does not apply.  Start documenting everything.  If it were me, I would send them a letter, stating that the agent said NR103 applies, and that you need in writing why that is the case.  I suspect you won't hear from them, unless they have legal grounds.

Regarding the driveway, take pictures of the neighbors driveway, document how you intend to do the same when it comes to a driveway, and apply to do the same thing.  If it is denied, have them provide in writing why.

I'm not a lawyer, but the law seems pretty clear, for things to be denied, there needs to be another alternative.  Ask for that alternative, and not building isn't a legal alternative.

If I were you, I would stir up the waters.  This isn't any special kind of law, requiring a special lawyer.  Do what you can for yourself first, get the denials in writing and turn them over to your attorney for his legal analysis.  If they won't provide a denial in writing, it is likely because they have no grounds.  You probably won't even need to go to court.  Many times, a phone call to the officer from the attorney will be enough.  I have heard of lawyers writing letters for $100, and that may also be enough.  They may just grant permission to keep it out of court, as a judgement against them could have HUGE ramifications.

If you compromise, you will always wonder if there is more you could have done.  At the very least, I would try the letter.  It may be the best $100 you ever spend, and if it doesn't work, you can know that you tried.

Disclaimer:all this legal talk makes me think I should include one.  I am not a lawyer, and this is just my opinion based on my personal experience.  The advise above is worth what was paid for it:)

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: CjAl on March 19, 2012, 04:46:44 PM
flippin WI DNR, and they wonder why i moved out.


my wife worked ten years for.one of the top land zoning attorneys in WI, he now practices part time and teaches at UWM. i have stories i am sure you dont want to hear.

but when you need it i csn give ya his name. chances are you WILL need it. if you can afford it, thats how dnr likes to win they just outspend you
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 19, 2012, 09:17:09 PM
CjAl,

Thanks for the cheery news!  Can you send me his contact info in a PM please. I'd like to have the info. I'm here in Milwaukee so I could even buy him lunch!

Wimmie
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: kenhill on March 20, 2012, 01:37:13 PM
Many moons ago, I think there was a Federal program to create ponds on farm land.  I wonder if it still exists?  You could get the fed rules to trump DNR, build a pond, add trout, and create habitat for waterfowl.  It also might be useful to "dry the surrounding land.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 20, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
Yeah I asked about that program. It's no longer available. They have decided it wasn't working anymore.

Wimmie
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: duncanshannon on March 20, 2012, 08:46:06 PM
Looking forward to following your build.  We have 9  acres near Spooner and hope to build in a few years.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 21, 2012, 10:45:00 AM
Hey DucanShannon!

How have you been? Did you find out out if you have any wetland issues?

Keep the faith, I bought the property in 06 and didn't get the chance to build till now. It will happen.

Wimmie
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 21, 2012, 10:48:40 AM
What can I put in the sofits to keep the bugs from crawling into the roofing insulation. My metal sofits have air vents with large holes.

We have a huge japanese beetle problem. I don't want them to crawl into the sofits and then up into the roof.

Any suggestions?  Help?
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: mgramann on March 22, 2012, 09:49:13 PM
Are you sure they will fit through the soffit vent holes?  I haven't had an issue with them yet, as the holes seem small enough to keep them out.

If you are concerned, I wonder if screen under the soffits would keep them out.  You will also want screen in your ridge vent to keep them from coming in there.

Another option would be a ventless roof, using spray foam insulation.  It's more expensive, but efficient.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 25, 2012, 01:22:20 PM
I'm not sure about the size of the vent holes. I will be heading up the property next weekend. I'll have to check it out.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 25, 2012, 01:42:03 PM
At the end of last October, we had the slab poured, just before it got to cold. They did a 7 bag mixed with the acelerants to help cure in cold weather. Finally I felt we were making some progress.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7010.jpg)
Forms set and ready to pour.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7010.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7021.jpg)
Foam and mesh in place prior to the pour.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7024.jpg)
With the silt fence in place.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7038.jpg)

Cement truck on the parking pad. This truck they mix the cement right on site in the truck. You only pay
for what is mixed. So there is no additional cost for excess cement. I don't remember what kind of truck they
said it was.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7031.jpg)

Since the ground was soft the truck could not drive up to the site. It would have left ruts or got stuck.
So the poor souls had to wheel barrow it from the parking pad to the forms. That looked like a good work out!

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7033.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7047.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7048.jpg)

The gas powered screed was pretty cool. I've never seen one before.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7049.jpg)

Finished pour. Slab size is 20x24.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7052.jpg)

Bolts in place.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/IMG_7053.jpg)

The concrete guy said that they would cover it with thermal blankets overnight to keep from freezing
and help keep the heat in to cure the mix.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Alan Gage on March 25, 2012, 02:57:23 PM
Any footings?

Alan
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 25, 2012, 04:25:48 PM
Alan,

It was a monolithic slab. 12 inches down and 12 inches wide. The DNR didn't want me to dig so we did a floating slab. Why?

Toyotaboy
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Alan Gage on March 25, 2012, 09:12:17 PM
Was just curious.

So, 12x12" footings. Are they under the foam? I didn't see any formed above it. It doesn't look like the whole slab is 12" thick. 6"?

Alan
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 27, 2012, 08:49:47 AM
It has 2 inches of foam underneath the slab. The center of the slab is 6 inches thick.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Alan Gage on March 27, 2012, 11:56:54 AM
Quote from: Toyotaboy on March 27, 2012, 08:49:47 AM
It has 2 inches of foam underneath the slab. The center of the slab is 6 inches thick.

Where is it 12" thick? From the pictures I couldn't see anywhere it was formed up. Or maybe that just wasn't shown?

Alan
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Rensmif on March 27, 2012, 01:59:03 PM
Quote from: Toyotaboy on March 25, 2012, 04:25:48 PM
Alan,

It was a monolithic slab. 12 inches down and 12 inches wide. The DNR didn't want me to dig so we did a floating slab. Why?

Toyotaboy

I believe Alan  is concerned (me too) about your slabs longterm stabillity.  The frost line in Wisconsin where you are unless I misread is at least 42 inches.  perhaps you left it out of your pics, or description, but I am curious as to how you addressed that in your foundation.  By the area being wetlands, were you required to at least use gravel under your slab ?  And how are you handling your water and plumbing now that your slab is poured?

interesting build, thanks for sharing with us.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: mgramann on March 27, 2012, 03:20:33 PM
I can't speak to their performance in wetlands, but floating slabs can fair pretty well here.  Soil type seems to be the biggest factor in determining their stability, according to the contractors I have spoken with.  If the soil under the slab drains well to below the frost line, I wouldn't think there would be any issues.

My cabin in N.E. Wisconsin is actually built on a floating slab.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Alan Gage on March 27, 2012, 07:03:01 PM
I don't have any problem with footings not going down below the frost line, the foam should take care of that. I just didn't see footings in the pictures and wondered how they did it.

Alan
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: mgramann on March 28, 2012, 08:33:07 AM
In the case of our slab, and I suspect this one, the concrete is a few inches thicker around the perimeter.  I believe it's called a grade beam.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 28, 2012, 02:26:25 PM
That is correct. The outside perimeter is 12 inches thick and 12 inches wide. It is called a grade beam. I could not for the life of me remember that term.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Alan Gage on March 28, 2012, 03:21:44 PM
I believe a grade beam is actually a separate footing that's usually more heavily reinforced so that it can span over soft spots or voids. I've always heard the term mono-slab for a slab that's poured at the same time as the thickened footings.

Maybe I'm missing something but I still don't see them in the pictures. Can you point out what I'm missing? Not doubting you, just curious how it was done. Most of the time when I've seen pictures there is fill on top of the foam to within 4 or 6 inches of the top of the forms. Then the thickened footing is dug out around the forms.

Alan
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: mgramann on March 28, 2012, 03:37:35 PM
Perhaps grade beam isn't technically the right term, but I know it is thrown around often with floating slabs.  A quick google search revealed they are sometimes called monolithic slabs.  Looking at the pictures above, it appears that the the "footing" part isn't obvious, but a gradual transition to the 12" thickness.

This is a more typical application:
(http://www.ornl.gov/sci/buildingsfoundations/handbook/images/4-2_fig4-02_10-G01407.jpg)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: MountainDon on March 28, 2012, 03:49:27 PM
Monolithis slab covers that nicely; that's what we call them in NM. That's what we have under our home, 18" deep around the perimeter footing portion. Ours is 27 years old. Back then no insulation was used at all.

The thing that is probably most confusing is how it "works" in a cold climate where the ground can freeze deeper than the depth of the perimeter. I have not bothered to do any research on that. I do know there are ways of using a prescribed amount of dense rigid foam under the slab to make a shallow frost free foundation; different methods for permanently heated and non heated or occasionally heated buildings, I believe.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: duncanshannon on March 31, 2012, 10:58:28 AM
Hey Toyotaboy... We are a few years out from building. I don't think I'll have any problems. There is a ridge mid-lot that slopes down (20 feet?) to two pond areas (one near the front of the 9 acres, the other at the back).

Good luck with your build!
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 01, 2012, 08:57:44 PM
Ducanshannon,

I hope you don't have any wetland issues. They are a nightmare to deal with. If you have any questions when you get further along let me know.

Toyotaboy
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 01, 2012, 09:12:58 PM
Quote from: MountainDon on March 28, 2012, 03:49:27 PM
Monolithis slab covers that nicely; that's what we call them in NM. That's what we have under our home, 18" deep around the perimeter footing portion. Ours is 27 years old. Back then no insulation was used at all.

The thing that is probably most confusing is how it "works" in a cold climate where the ground can freeze deeper than the depth of the perimeter. I have not bothered to do any research on that. I do know there are ways of using a prescribed amount of dense rigid foam under the slab to make a shallow frost free foundation; different methods for permanently heated and non heated or occasionally heated buildings, I believe.

Thanks for the picture with the post. That is exactly what we did. We have a vapor barrier and 2 inches of foam underneath. The building inspector wanted a us to dig about a foot down and lay foam 2 ft laterally all the way around the perimeter of the foundation then cover it back with dirt. That is to keep the frost away from the  foundation. That is the building code here.
Due to our wetland restrictions I can't do that. So he wants me to dig down two feet vertically and insert the foam along side the slab  and back fill it to keep the frost away.
I'm not so sure I want to do that. I would then be isolating the slab like an island which I would think would make it unstable.  The soil is all clay. I've read that if you dig clay out you can't back fill with it because once it's dug out it expands. Therefore your back fill would never be as solid as it was. If you back fill you are to back fill with regular topsoil.  So I have to talk to the inspector yet about that. The DNR doesn't want me to dig at all.

Toyotaboy
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: MountainDon on April 01, 2012, 09:15:40 PM
Wetlands are a PITA, aren't they.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 01, 2012, 09:40:26 PM
That is an understatement Mountain Don!
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 01, 2012, 09:58:29 PM
When I talked to the Army Corp agent last fall he told me that when I start building I could not store my building supplies on the ground next to the slab. I said, "What?". He said, "That would be filling in a wetland and we would have to fine you." I was dumbfounded. He told me that I need to stage my supplies on the parking pad which is 100 ft away, unless I built in the winter. I guess the ground is frozen enough so the weight of the supplies, don't compress the wetland soils. He never said this but it is the only thing I can think of as to why. So I opted for a winter building date.

We started our building in January. With the mild winter access to the slab off the road was not an issue. I think we had less than 6 inches of snow on the ground. So we didn't even need to have it plowed out.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0011.jpg)

Menards delivery!

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0021.jpg)

I was totally digging the crane delivering the lumber. Very Cool!

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0026.jpg)

One northwoods cabin, some assembly required!

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0034.jpg)

The crawl space walls going up. I worked alongside the amish crew everyday, very tiring. The weather was incredibly warm. We worked several days in just jeans and shirts, in January in Wisconsin! 

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0033.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0031.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0036.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0044.jpg)

I joists being delivered.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0045.jpg)

I Joists going on top of the crawl space.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0050.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0054.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0055.jpg)

The slab is 20x24. The i joists extend 2 ft on the east and west sides to make the living space 24x24 square.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0061.jpg)

Just a little trimming!
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Rensmif on April 02, 2012, 08:33:34 AM
Quote from: Rensmif on March 27, 2012, 01:59:03 PM
And how are you handling your water and plumbing now that your slab is poured?

interesting build, thanks for sharing with us.

OHhhhhh, I ASSumed you were building directly on top of the slab, my bad, the "slab" is basically a huge footing for your wetland area.   

A pic is worth a thousand words.  I learn something new every time I log in here.  Good luck with the build and please continue to keep us updated.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 02, 2012, 07:48:40 PM
Rensmif- Sorry I somehow missed your earlier post.

We are not allowed to dig a well because we are in a wetland. If I had a water source I would have to put in septic which the DNR won't approve.
So we are doing a composting toilet. I had to get that approved from the zoning guy. The DNR won't even give me a permit for a outhouse.
So I don't need any plumbing through the slab.

As for electric I was not going to do anything. I sort of like the idea of a rustic cabin. I grew up hunting in one in the north woods. I since have decided to wire it and run a generator for now. Eventually I want to install solar but can't afford it right now. I'm still trying to figure out the solar thing.

Toyotaboy

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Rensmif on April 03, 2012, 09:15:43 AM
Quote from: MountainDon on April 01, 2012, 09:15:40 PM
Wetlands are a PITA, aren't they.


WOW - I agree
Toyotaboy, thanks for the update
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: MWAndrus on April 03, 2012, 10:46:45 AM
We had some issues getting permits in Wisconsin as well. We didn't want to have to goto the expense of putting in a septic system, so we wanted to go with a compost system. We found out that we can get a Non-Standard Sanitation Permit through Marinette County. What that means is that we can get approved for a pit-privy, outhouse, or composting toilet. We built a small outhouse to hold our "composting" setup. One of the stipulations is that with a non-standard sanitary permit we are not allowed to run any pipes into or out of our house. They let us put in a well, but any water that we use has to be carried into and out of the house.

We wanted to have a branched drain system to treat the grey water, but we arn't allowed to have pipes in or out of the house, so now the grey water has to be dumped on the surface of the ground untreated. Their laws don't make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 04, 2012, 09:54:49 AM
MWAndrus-

DNR guy wouldn't let me dig an outhouse even though I could get a permit thru the county.

As for the grey water I need to check up and see what I am allowed to do. We will have to port all of our water, which isn't a big deal to me. I will probably do some sort of rain water collection system eventually.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 06, 2012, 02:11:57 PM
I need recommendations.

I want to do a propane stove and propane refrigerator for the cabin.

The refrigerator I was hoping would fit under a counter.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!


Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: MountainDon on April 06, 2012, 02:24:03 PM
I don't know of any propane refrigerators that will fit under a counter, other than RV fridges. Those cost about as much as a fridge like the Servel 400 (https://www.thenaturalhome.com/gasappliances.htm).   Try looking for a working used RV fridge. 

We have the Servel and it works fine.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: MountainDon on April 06, 2012, 03:21:55 PM
As for a range, do you have electric power at the cabin? 

The reason I ask is that most ranges that have electric ignitors instead of a pilot light, will require AC electrical power for the oven to work at all. A cheaper range with pilot lights for the stove top burners and the oven does not need any power at all.

There are a few better to upper scale ranges that are aimed at off grid use that do not have the electric issue. However, common store brands with ignitors are usually a problem without electricity. Their ovens use a heater bar powered by AC to ensure and continue oven operation. The heater bar can use more power than many off grid systems can readily supply for every minute the oven is on. I am also not clear on whether this only affects the oven or the stove top burners too. I think it is only an issue with the oven. Most of the literature does not make this clear. I dug through the owners and installers manual on a couple of brands to figure it out. Others have had a surprise when they tried to use their range.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: hhbartlett on April 07, 2012, 06:39:25 PM
Quote from: Toyotaboy on April 06, 2012, 02:11:57 PM
I need recommendations.

I want to do a propane stove and propane refrigerator for the cabin.

The refrigerator I was hoping would fit under a counter.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

If you're on a budget, check craigslist for an old camper trailer. Hopefully one that leaks badly and has a rotted floor that they only want a couple of hundred for. You can glean all kinds of goodies out of them including a 3-way propane/electric fridge, propane stove (that does not need electricity), propane water heater, lots of other stuff. Plus a frame for a utility trailer for later use.

New propane fridges are lotsa $$$'s.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: duncanshannon on April 08, 2012, 09:05:33 AM
Quote from: hhbartlett on April 07, 2012, 06:39:25 PM
If you're on a budget, check craigslist for an old camper trailer. Hopefully one that leaks badly and has a rotted floor that they only want a couple of hundred for. You can glean all kinds of goodies out of them including a 3-way propane/electric fridge, propane stove (that does not need electricity), propane water heater, lots of other stuff. Plus a frame for a utility trailer for later use.

Wow... thats lots of stuff!  Esp. when you think of it as a frame for a trailer!  Good idea!
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 11, 2012, 04:50:25 PM
Just scored a propane Colman 4 burner stove and oven!

My cousin had gotten it out of a camper that was being trashed. It's like new! Paid her $30 and 10 hours of labor on any project she wants.

I cant wait to hook it up to a propane tank and check it out.  It's a lovely avocado green! Retro baby! I'll post pics when I get the chance.

Don- The cabin is being wired and I plan to run a generator to start with, charging a battery bank. PV's to come later. So I'm not sure about a fridge yet.

Where I have it planned is not on a outside wall for venting. Hoping to find a used LP trailer fridge possibly. I'm rethinking the kitchen layout for a third time

now! Yikes!   
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: MountainDon on April 11, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
While if you are meticulous about keeping the burner assembly and chimney clean any propane fridge can be safely used without an external vent/exhaust. In fact I believe most residential propane fridges do not offer external vents. BUT, be certain to use an operating CO alarm with fresh batteries any time the fridge is on. The biggest danger comes after the fridge has sat idle for a period, like over winter. Spiders may make webs in the chimney or burner area. That can cause air flow issues that end up with the unit making CO. RV fridges have all the same basic parts, the same operation as a residential model. RV fridges vent outside.

One reason to think about venting is the burner on most has a capacity of 1500 BTU/hr when operating to make "cold". That gets added to the heat transferred from the inside of the box. That heat stays in the cabin, welcome in winter, not so much in summer. I don't know if you saw our home brewed ventilation / cooling system for the fridge in our cabin. ???  It makes a real difference in warmer weather. In cool weather we make  a switch and the fridge heat stays inside.  Home brewed and non-approved by any building authority.

Start here, scroll down (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg139636#msg139636)

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 11, 2012, 05:43:48 PM
Very cool concept Don. Good to know that the LP fridge might not need to be vented but like you said the heat in summer might be killer.

I'm thinking of installing either manual or power vents in the gable ends to cool off the space during summer. I only have windows in the loft but have 3 ft of
space above them with no way for the heated air to escape. Going to have to look online. The vents were a suggestion from my brother.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: mgramann on April 11, 2012, 07:29:15 PM
For you and others who are looking for a good off grid range, it's hard to beat antiques.  I picked up a 50' 20 inch Welbilt for $30 off craigslist.  It uses pilot lights, which can be turned off in the oven when not in use, and turned off for the range burners full time so they can be lit with a match.  In other words, there is no standby usage.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 15, 2012, 02:47:00 PM
We made major progress in Feb. and March. I wanted to get this posted so I can get up to date with everything.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0074.jpg)

Putting down the sub floor before we start building walls.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0075.jpg)

Amish buddy Owen. He loves to fish.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0080.jpg)

Working on the first wall.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0076.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0085.jpg)

First wall up and braced. The first time we lifted it, it slid off the end of the building right on top of our pile of lumber. Thankfully no one was hurt.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0088.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0089.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0094.jpg)

Second wall up and braced.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/IMG_0090.jpg)

Sunset from the my future deck.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 15, 2012, 03:28:34 PM
There is a lapse in images. I ran out of batteries for the camera one day and then forgot it another.
The gable end walls went up without a hitch. The beast was getting the 6x6 x 26 ft posted on up and in on each gable end. The one 6x6 in the middle of the cabin was the real beast. We had to cut the hole in the floor and slide it in over one of the gable walls and stand it up into the hole. All the 6x6's run from the slab to the ridge beam.

The images below are of the rafters going up. The guy with the beard is my 86 year old uncle.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/CopyofIMG_0146.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Copy2ofIMG_0139.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/CopyofIMG_0137.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/CopyofIMG_0142.jpg)



I thought the Amish were nuts. No safety ropes or harnesses. Just crazy!

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0174.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0164.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0144.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0156.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0171.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0167.jpg%5Bimg%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttps://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0168.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/IMG_0167.jpg)

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 15, 2012, 03:38:36 PM
Roof sheathing and steel roof going on.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0178.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0176.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0180.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0183.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0184.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0182.jpg)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 15, 2012, 03:52:46 PM
Windows were installed on another trip. With my schedule I am able to take off a Thursday and Friday or a Monday and Tuesday and work on the cabin.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0633.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0636.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0668.jpg)

Started studding out the bedroom and the bathroom.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0667.jpg)

Loft area.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/IMG_0672.jpg)

Looking toward the front door and living room area.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 17, 2012, 09:02:21 AM
I got ten replacement windows from my cousin who does remodeling. Ten really nice vinyl windows. He saved me a bunch of money. So when we installed them I had to add the wide black tape to seal them before the tin siding went on.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0647.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0648.jpg)

After the windows went in we started the siding.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0642.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0643.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0649.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0653.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0655.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0660.jpg)

This image shows the access door to the storage crawl space underneath.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/24x24%20Cabin/The%20Build/Rafters/Roof%20Work/Siding/IMG_0657.jpg)

This is pretty much where the project stands now. We started wiring the cabin last week but made little progress. We had to work out alot of the details about light switches and outlets per code requirements. Things I had not thought about. I think the next trip we will make some major progress on the wiring.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 04, 2012, 09:02:45 AM
I have made two trips to work on the place since the last posting. Thought I would post the updates.

First trip we installed the interior stairs to the loft and finished the floor for the loft as best as we could. On one side of the loft I will be installing a rustic log. So we left that side of the loft alone.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0803.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0809.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0808.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0788.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0787.jpg)

I'm planning on leaving the joists and loft flooring exposed under the bedroom and the bathroom and hallway.
I might do drywall in the bath just for a bit more privacy. We would have to run conduit for lighting in the bath and bedroom with the exposed joists.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0799.jpg)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: duncanshannon on May 04, 2012, 07:52:19 PM
holy crap you are fast!  congrats.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 07, 2012, 08:29:04 AM
Pouring all my time into it now. Later in the year I am busy and progress will slow down dramatically. I have a ton of new stuff to post. I hope to get it posted in the next day or so.  :P
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 08:50:47 PM
The last trip we got alot of stuff done. We finished the loft boards and added short walls to the loft. I was not crazy about railings especially when little kids are around (grand kids someday). The short walls will also give some privacy to people in the loft from down below. We also added rustic collar ties to the rafters inside. We needed to get this stuff done so we could get the wiring done.

Loft boards installed.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0790.jpg)

Rustic collar ties installed. They are peeled pine about 8 ft long. They are positioned 3ft down from the peak. I plan to hang a ceiling fan off the one above the living room area.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0816.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0818.jpg)

The short wall on the loft.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0858.jpg)

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 08:57:49 PM
Over lunch one day we discussed adding a rustid log to the side of the loft opposite the stairs. I thought it was a really cool idea. So we went for it. It's another pine log hand peeled. It was one heavy sucker. Took three of us to barley move it.

One end at a time.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0827.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0830.jpg)

I was surprised the horses could actually hold it.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0833.jpg)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 09:01:16 PM
We had to trim the log to make it fit into the wall and on the 4x6 post next to the stairs.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0836.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0837.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0835.jpg)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 09:08:16 PM
So we hoisted one end up onto the 4x6 post that runs down to the slab. I couldn't figure out how we were going to get the wall end up in place and secured. Go figure, a jack and a 2x4!

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0843.jpg)

I'm in the brown coat (my better side).

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0845.jpg)

Jack and 2x4. Then we just jacked it up into place.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0849.jpg)

(//)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Redoverfarm on May 08, 2012, 09:10:44 PM
Moving heavy timbers in no way is entertainment.  I used locust post for both the inside and outside.  A total of about 10 which were all at least 10" in diameter.  And then there were the stair stringers which were 16" pine logs split.  Used a skateboard to roll them into position.  The biggest obsticle were the standing ones which had to be erected, lowered , plumb cut and then erected again.  But in the end it was well worth it.  I might just add to make sure that you have all the bark completely cleaned off the logs.  If you finish it and it dries out any bark left on it will peel and raise up. 

Not to sound critical but you really need to rid the post of all the brown "paper like bark remains" on the post.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 09:14:22 PM
Redoverfarm,

Thanks for the info on the bark. I plan to remove just haven't gotten to it yet. How soon should that be done?
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Redoverfarm on May 08, 2012, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 09:14:22 PM
Redoverfarm,

Thanks for the info on the bark. I plan to remove just haven't gotten to it yet. How soon should that be done?

Probably the sooner the better if it is still somewhat green or moist. It comes off easily with a draw knife.  If it dries it will sort of seize to the wood and you might have to sand more than you anticipated.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 09:26:44 PM
The log in place on the end of the loft. Under the loft will be the kitchen area. Just out in front of the loft will be the dining area. I trimmed the loft boards to hang out over the log a bit. That gives us a little shelf.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0859.jpg)

This shows how we placed the log on the 4x6 beam. You can see the bottom of the loft boards trimmed to make the shelf. I'm not sure how to secure the log to the 4x6 post. Maybe a long lag screw?

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0853.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0852.jpg)

This is how we secured the log into the wall. Several 2x6 nailed together underneath the square end of the log. If something does not look right to anyone please let me know.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0855.jpg)

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Rustic%20Log/IMG_0856.jpg)
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on May 08, 2012, 09:40:55 PM
Redoverfarm,

I'll have to add that to my list. The list that keeps getting longer every trip. Your rustic timbers look really cool! I like the cat on the timber!
I'm hoping to add some rustic barn boards from my grandfather's barn as wainscoting. The barn about to fall over so I might have to wait. It was built at the turn of the last century. It's barley standing.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on July 13, 2012, 02:41:43 PM
Hey all!

I haven't posted in awhile because we haven't been doing too much. Mostly wiring with my brother who is an electrician. We did have our first inspection last week. Inspector wants a bunch of wiring changes and a change in our stairs. We didn't know that code  for smoke detectors also have to have co2 detectors  He wants one installed in the crawl space too.

He wants some sort of foam to seal all of the back of the outlet boxes that are on the exterior walls. I don't know if it has to be fire retardant or not. We are checking on that.

He also stated that the code is that the stairs on the front and back of the cabin as well as the stairs to the loft have to be enclosed on the riser portion. No open stairs. I've never heard of that. Might be code just for that county.

He said we also had to install wall bracing within 12 ft of each corner as well. He did say we could go ahead with the insulation but call him prior to drywall so he can check everything. 

We are also working on installing a rustic railing on the loft stairs to complement the rustic beam on the other side of the loft stairs.

We are trying to figure when our next trip will be.

Toyotaboy  d*
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Don_P on July 14, 2012, 07:40:30 AM
The model building code requires that openings in stairs and rails be small enough that a 4" ball cannot pass through, that's between treads, pickets, etc. Additionally any stair that is enclosed underneath (think understair closet) must have at least 1/2" drywall on the underside to protect it from fire in that closet. They are usually pretty tight on "means of egress" and rightfully so, this is the way out in an emergency. 

We had an inspection yesterday and I made a request for a non code stair to a technically non habitable loft in the very peak of the house. He tried, we read the IRC and the IBC looking for a way and if I had pushed hard he probably would have caved, but I agree with the code here. There is an exemption in an I3 commercial building to a mezzanine but in those occupancies everyone is awake. We all know that at some point there will be children camping out up there. I can put in a pull down set for inspection, what happens after that would be none of our affair.  He's also open to us submitting design for the pull down, that opens up a whole lot of possibilities.  I've prepared the clients for a 5' dia spiral that passes and is safer. The key here was that the space above is too low and small to be habitable which frees him somewhat.

Now for the bomb, and I'm not sure that I agree with the interpretation but here was his take as we talked through it. With the change from the '06 to the '09 code they deemed any attic that meets the height and area requirements of a habitable attic must have a compliant stair. I countered that then people would start using that attic for much more than 20 psf storage. He said that we would need to design the attic floor as a 30 psf floor now as well. After he left my mind kept going round... do we now need to meet insulation, light and ventilation requirements as well... I can see a can of worms here that carries down into the basement as well  :-\. I suspect his gears were churning as he left as well. This inspector is a former builder and has said he really enjoys visiting us because we do get to work on neat stuff and he tries to let us do those things. At the same time I respect the tough job he has to do and try very hard to meet him as close to his job requirements as I can. Anyway, just some stair stuff while it was fresh in my mind.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on July 17, 2012, 10:42:13 AM
Holy Cow!  The attic thing sounds like it could be a real mess, Yikes!

I need to talk to the inspector about the wire change he wants from the generator hook up. We ran number 10 wire to the panel for  30 amps on the generator hook up.. He wants me to change it to a 4 wire 100 amp service. The 4 wire is really expensive. If we or anyone else would bring service from the grid they would have to put in a meter socket and pole and run it into the panel. I don't see how they would try to run it thru the generator hook up. So I plan to rebuttal his request to change the generator 30 amp hook up.

We also have to change the dining circuit outlets to be on their own circuit with a 20amp fuse. That's by code and we somehow missed it.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: CjAl on July 17, 2012, 11:33:18 AM
mabey they would agree if you ran it through a three position manual switch box where the center position is open air, gen in up position and future electrical service in down position
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on July 17, 2012, 12:52:49 PM
That might be an idea but I don't know if that would meet code or not. I'll have to ask my bro who is the electrician.

Thanks CjAl..!
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: CjAl on July 17, 2012, 12:59:36 PM
when i hauled mobile mri scanners in wi the older hospitals were all set up like that. the new scanners have an auto transfer built into the trailer so its not needed anymore. so i know it was cide at one time
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: OlJarhead on February 01, 2017, 08:50:19 PM
Looking good :)  Maybe with the new administration the DNR will back off ;)  I hear the EPA is getting a hair cut so who knows ;) :D
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on February 12, 2017, 11:51:17 PM
Well I haven't posted in a very long time. Life just gets plain crazy sometimes. The other reason is that while we were building we were broken into. That made me really shy to post anything.

Anyway, when the break in happened they hit 5 cabins on our road that were seasonal places. My neighbor had been up to his place( he had been broken into, one of the 5) and called me and asked if I had left my front door open. At that time the door was on but we had not installed the storm doors.  I had told him no. That was on a friday and one of my cousin's was on his way up. So he got there and met the sheriff.

So they had taken a cheap video game from one of my neighbors, Stole a nudy poster off the wall and took booze from another place. Stole a sledge hammer from another one and that is what they used on my front door. They tried to kick it in first but then used the sledge. All I lost was a case of water. I had ladders and a whole bunch of romex laying there and they didn't touch it.

Cops figure it was kids, one with a driver's license. Could have been worse but that was one expensive case of water. New dead bolt, new handle and lot's of work on the inside door jam.

[(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_0977.jpg)[/URL][/img]

Cops a got a good footprint off the door but that was about it. The sheriff have been very vigilant since then. One of my neighbors who had a seasonal across the road from me, has now moved up there full time. He told me that there is alot of meth in the area now. So I'm pretty cautious now about everything. Which really sucks because I thought I would be away from all that in the north woods. Funny how I was more wary about the wolves, now that has changed.

I think now that the neighbor across the road is full time, I think there is a less likely chance of a break in.

I will be posting more in a few days.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on February 16, 2017, 08:54:06 PM
I'm trying to continue where I left off of the build last. I tell you that it is making me organize everything which is good.

Well, the inspector had came in right before the insulation and said I had to install some bracing in the all four corners of the building. I had to put in a couple of braces between the studs high and low. for 2-3 runs on each wall. He said they were for twisting. If the building twisted in high winds. I've never seen this before or heard of it. Has anyone heard of this? I asked him if there was a certain number or spacing between them or how many? He said no, just send him the pics to prove it was done. Then I could start insulation. So we put a half a dozen in each corner.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Bracing/IMG_0993.jpg)[/URL][/img]

Randomly spaced.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Bracing/IMG_0992.jpg)[/URL][/img]

Just to the right of the window spaced high and low.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Bracing/IMG_1000.jpg)[/URL][/img]

You can also see the  yellow #10 wire he made us run in the outlets in the "dinning room". He said #10 was required for outlets for code. Something about using a slower cooker all day and the heat generated?
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on February 16, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
This is my stove. I  really didn't know what I was buying from my neighbor but I knew it would work and would be plenty big enough. Roy was 80, sitting in his driveway across the street from me. He always sat out in front of his garage during the summer having a beer. This time I notice the stove at the edge of the door next to him. So I walked over and talked with him as I always did. Then I asked him what was with the stove. He told me the insurance company made him take it out of his 3 season room or they were going to drop his insurance ( this was 10 years ago). I asked him what he wanted for it. I said $150, he said too much! He said $75. I said I would be right back with the cash. I then built the wood dolly with the wheels two days later and my son helped me get it on the dolly and I pushed it across the street into my garage. I then pushed it into the back of the garage and covered it with a tarp and stuff (you always have stuff in your garage) I didn't tell my wife about it for 5 years!
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_1007.jpg)[/URL]][/img]

It's a Nordic brand Erik model. Turns out it's a great stove. It has a blower motor on the front too which hangs below the handles on the front. I love the glass doors when we have a fire in it. One of the inside safety glass panes shattered last year. 9x14 size I think. Special order, $45!  Yikes!!!
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on February 16, 2017, 09:23:01 PM
I had decided that I wanted a log railing on the stairs. One of our Amish friends did side work in his shop. So he came and measured and made me one.
I think we paid him $200 for it with the install.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Bracing/Stairs/IMG_0985.jpg)[/URL][/img]


(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Bracing/Stairs/IMG_0984.jpg)[/URL][/img]

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Bracing/Stairs/IMG_0986.jpg)[/URL][/img]

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/Bracing/Stairs/IMG_0987.jpg)[/URL][/img]

You can see the rustic log over the entryway into the kitchen in this shot.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on February 28, 2017, 10:51:30 PM
I can't seem to find the insulation install on the walls d*. I do have the install of the roof vents and insulation. I did the install on a ladder  in the cathedral ceiling area myself.Installing the 4ft vents and then the 4 ft batts. I was by myself so I figure I was up and down that ladder 200 times that day to get it all done.
(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_1020.jpg)
The electrical box on the collar tie is for a ceiling fan to circulate the warm air.

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_1019.jpg)[/URL]

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_1018.jpg)[/URL]

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_1017.jpg)[/URL]

(https://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/Ronwimmer/IMG_1021.jpg)[/URL]

Next was the plastic vapor barrier then we could start the ceiling.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Rys on March 01, 2017, 10:04:36 AM
Love the rustic looking wood.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 01, 2017, 09:06:14 PM
Thanks Rys. I did a little bit of rustic wood. The big log over the kitchen, the collar ties and the railing. The rest will be drywall.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 16, 2017, 06:18:47 PM
Any other option besides photobucket? I've had issues the last two days trying to load stuff.

Suggestions?
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on March 16, 2017, 06:31:23 PM
http://www.imgur.com
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 16, 2017, 07:53:23 PM
After getting the insulation and and vapor barrier on the ceiling we started the drywall. Spent a couple of weekends with the guys getting it hung and mudded. Then the crappy part was the sanding and sanding and sanding! I hated it. I thought it would never end. Doing the gable end that wasn't the loft end was fun

(http://i.imgur.com/RenlG7d.jpg)

Mudding the kitchen area

(http://i.imgur.com/52HVlN8.jpg)

You can see the railing and the log in rustic log in this pic. I also left the loft boards long over the rustic log for a little shelf to put some things on.
(http://i.imgur.com/TKbkFuo.jpg)

Drywall calculations.

(http://i.imgur.com/UKLGJ6u.jpg)

First floor bedroom. You can see where we have the electric panel.

(http://i.imgur.com/gzUvA4z.jpg)

Shot from the loft. Frontroom area. Door is on the upper left. you can see the special red tape on the vapor barrier on the ceiling. Stuff was $15 a roll.
What a load of crap that was. Required by the inspector.

(http://i.imgur.com/tdqCgYi.jpg)

Loft view

(http://i.imgur.com/mQhUlBW.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/3AclNr2.jpg)

Gable end. Long climb with drywall. You can also see the electric vent fan and the passive vent.
Idea was to use the electric fan to suck the hot summer air off and out of the building with the windows on the first floor open. To create circulation.
Passive vent was for the same thing but when we turn the gennie off at night. We have a passive vent in the loft. We have also used the elecrtric fan to take some of the heat out of the loft when we have the woodburner cranked up too much.  ::) Some of the guys complained that they had to sleep in their underwear it was too hot. (Not a sight you want to see.)

(http://i.imgur.com/n8prKJB.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jdmgO14.jpg)



Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: ChugiakTinkerer on March 17, 2017, 10:00:56 AM
Looking fantastic.  Have you considered a ceiling fan above the main room for circulating the warm air?  I'm thinking about how to move that hot air down from the loft and into the rest of the house.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: pmichelsen on March 17, 2017, 11:14:11 AM
My buddy has a whole house fan in his cabin and it's great at sucking all of that hot air out at night.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 17, 2017, 10:20:30 PM
Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on March 17, 2017, 10:00:56 AM
Looking fantastic.  Have you considered a ceiling fan above the main room for circulating the warm air?  I'm thinking about how to move that hot air down from the loft and into the rest of the house.

I actually have an electric box on the collar tie in the main room for the ceiling fan. Probably will put it on a two foot drop.
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 26, 2017, 12:04:17 PM
Once we finished the drywall we started on the ceiling. I went with a tongue and groove 8 inch wide board. One side is just wide and smooth the other looks like carsiding 4 inch. I'm not sure if that is the correct terminology. So the peak in the living room area is about 22ft from the floor. So we brought in the 30 ladder and a set of cheap scaffolding to get us to the very top. The wood length was 12 footers i think. we left them long and staggered them. Use nail guns to put them in place. Took a bit of a crew to get everything set up and in place to get things going.

(http://i.imgur.com/c56oJVe.jpg)

we stretched the ladder from the loft to the scaffolding.

(http://i.imgur.com/5Zt6zre.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mkUKT9B.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/SluoB9Y.jpg)
This is the loft end.

I didn't want the ceiling stained dark. So all we did was poly the wood all before installing it. My cousin had built his place and polyed everything after the install. He said it was a mess with everything dripping down. I took his recommendation and was so glad I did.

(http://i.imgur.com/kPyYEhl.jpg)

The one thing I do not like about the interior design was the ridge beam post at the top of the stairs (6x6). Then when we installed the collar ties we ended up with sort of a cross. It's up out of the way but looks a little weird. Neither I nor the architect thought about it till we were too late. Just one of those things.

(http://i.imgur.com/D39x4un.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/cT0HPlx.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jV1jZSZ.jpg)
Just a little sway in that ladder!  :o

(http://i.imgur.com/O2WXDEP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xtvfjCL.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZOtMyM4.jpg)
Working around the chimney box.

(http://i.imgur.com/WNHfLCz.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jzolQko.jpg)








Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Redoverfarm on March 26, 2017, 12:53:40 PM
Been there and done that.  I had to get a little creative in that I did it solo.  Of course I had some scaffolding bucks and walk boards which made it a little easier.  I tried hard to get the matching elevation on both sides to end up at the peak but it never did.  So to compensate I cut a 2-3" wide strip and beveled the edges matching my slope which dressed the peak intersection.  The natural on mine would have looked strange given my 100+ aged logs so I went with a semi-transparent stain ( Cape Code Grey) to tone it down some and finished with 2-3 coats of polycrylic.  Pre-finish is the only way to go on this aspect.

On the post you can get creative. Cover it with some of the T&G to dress it up a little from the pressure treated finish. 

The collar ties were hard to get trimmed out.  The best that I have found is to work both ways from them to the outside.  You can just keep tweaking until you have a good fit and then go either direction from the squared end out.  If you try to work from the outside in it is difficult to get the correct cut (profile) and then make it work with the T&G.  Another little trick I learned that if you did it this way the just cut the bottom portion of the groove off and it will just lay in against the tounge of the preceeding piece. and not have to be fitted.  No one would ever know the difference as the face will not show it.

Yep I doubt that the ladders manufacturers considered the load weight in that particular configuration.   [shocked]  Hopefully it worked without failure
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Rys on March 27, 2017, 09:32:10 AM
Love the look of the rustic collar ties & wood ceiling with the Sheetrock. I think it gives a nice balance. 
Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on March 27, 2017, 09:07:55 PM
Thanks Rys. I didn't want too much wood. We plan to do a hardwood floor so I wanted to balance it out with the drywall. I wanted the rustic wood just to be accents.

Redoverfarm: we tried to fit it tight around the collar ties but have planned to do some sort of a mounding the collar ties but not sure what yet. It will need something, that is for sure. I will have to snap a pic to show how it ended up.

Title: Re: 24 x 24 Northern Wisconsin Cabin
Post by: Toyotaboy on April 05, 2017, 09:56:53 PM
After We got the ceiling in we decided it was time to get the composter in. I went with the big Sunmar ac/dc unit with the blower and heater. The DNR would not let me have an outhouse due to wetland issues. But the county would give me a permit. The DNR guy said, no, no digging in a wetland. I cant have a water source
( well) because state code states if you have a water source you have to have septic and the DNR (damn near russia) won't let me dig for a holding tank. So I got approved for the composter.

Now I will be honest. I did not think the bathroom through completely. We were still building when all  the DNR stuff happened. So when it came time to install the composter I was limited as to which direction and where to place it so the vent stack would work. Sunmar states that you should not have more than 2- 45 degree angles and no horizontal runs at all in the vent stack. Well to run the stack up the gable wall outside, I ended up with a 2-45 and a 90 degree angle. But I also have a vent fan. One that can run on a battery or the electric one when I have the jennie running.

(http://i.imgur.com/v3dILL7.jpg)
You can just see the edge of the power box on the wall on the left. That's where the unit plugs into.

(http://i.imgur.com/tn1bnHY.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jOv6Fct.jpg)
The black tube is the waste tube. The gray one is the vent tube. I don't have the other tube hooked up with the blower in these pics. But it is hooked up now. You can see where I had to go through two I joists and then the outer wall. I have an 18 inch horizontal run. Not the best. Otherwise I would have had the vent stack coming through the bathroom floor right next to the commode and then to the outer wall (really stupid looking).

(http://i.imgur.com/N8kE8Gj.jpg)
To the outer wall.

(http://i.imgur.com/UVJHOtp.jpg)

This is where the vent stack exits. I have a plate covering it until I got the rest of the vent pipe up mounted up the gable end.
We have been having venting issues. We have had odor issues even when running the electric vent fan. Mostly in the winter when no composting is taking place and the wood burner is running. I am getting a rather good up draft from the waste tube. I think it's because the stove is drawing the air. I need to solve this issue. It got pretty stinking by the end of hunting season this last November. I am open to any suggestions.

I thought maybe a fresh air vent on the hearth for the stove from the bottom of my crawl space. Would that help? I'm looking for ideas. Please advise.

I looked through Mountain Don's build. I saw that he had made a collection pit for his compost because he had issues of it not composting in the winter months.
It would have to be camouflaged. Or my other thought is to use two steel barrel for compost. Let is sit for 6 months before emptying it and then start some in the other barrel. I have been using the compost around my trees I have planted.

When I empty the composter I wear rubber gloves and a dust face mask. It's not too bad. What I need to do is get the Humanuare book that is out on the market. I don't know much about pathogens and toxicity of human waste.

(http://i.imgur.com/8WuyHsU.jpg)

The commode in the bathroom.