24x64 two family cabin

Started by markert2523, October 28, 2012, 11:27:13 AM

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markert2523

Contractor started the porch deck today.  One interesting thing about having a contractor build things is that he does things in ways I would never have thought of.  Here he is putting up the joists before the posts.  I never would have thought of that.  I only hope that the splices will all line up over posts.  From what I can tell from the pics, he is staggering 2x12x8' and 2x12x16'.  The posts will be spaced at 8' so I suppose he can just stagger the second 2x12 in an opposite fashion. 



Don_P

QuoteThe posts will be spaced at 8' so I suppose he can just stagger the second 2x12 in an opposite fashion. 

Hence the max allowable post spacing in DCA6, the deck guide, of 8'  ;)

Is there flashing between the floor rim joist and the deck ledger?

Just as a tip for owner builders, I do run a diagonal brace on the underside of the joists from house to deck outer rim area to lock the framing in square while working.


markert2523

Well, Don.  I discussed this with the contractor some time ago and he says he always does the flashing.  Unfortunately I'm on a work streak for several days and won't be able to get up and look at the work for a while.  He is always pretty good about sending pics.


Don_P

Sounds good, I was looking at the pics and didn't see it from those angles but they weren't very clear in that area so just a reminder. One of the guys that's helping me this week is going to work on a log house next where they forgot, the rot got into the sill log, it's kind of an epidemic around here for some reason.

markert2523

I finally finished up my work shift (7days on/7 days off) and got up to see the progress.  The ledger hasn't been flashed yet--but it will be.  In fact it is only tacked up and through-bolted in a few places.  It has many simpson lateral load devices locking it into the ijoists also.  The contractor has a big box of ledgerlok screws that will go in soon.


The first wall is built and ready to be tilted up--64' all at once--glad I'm not doing it!


Contractor using some kind of mesh and roof coating for the block wall.  I don't know anything about it but I'm going with it.



markert2523


markert2523

Sheathing going up.  Trusses are ordered and will go up next week.  We are going to have attic room trusses over each end and scissor trusses in the middle common area.  That way each family will have some private storage.  I have three days of army duty and then off next week so I am finally going to be able to get my hands dirty and work on the cabin!  Better start limbering up to help hoist those trusses.





markert2523

Went up to the cabin site for a couple of days to help with roof trusses.  My contractor ordered a fork truck but it didn't get there.  So there was a big pile of these when I got there.


So the five of us hoisted all of them up and nailed them in.  Not the easiest thing I've ever done but manageable.






The middle of the cabin has scissor trusses for a vaulted ceiling.  Each end has attic room trusses so each family has some extra storage.


I also got to lay some deck boards and the front porch deck is about half done.  The contractor let me use his board straightener.  Worked very well.  I'm not gapping the 2x6's at all since they were dripping wet and will gap on their own in time.



Tickhill

Let me ask a dumb question, is that felt paper on top of the porch joists? I have never seen this done before, what are the benefits? Thanks, looking good!
"You will find the key to success under the alarm Glock"  Ben Franklin
Forget it Ben, just remember, the check comes at the first of the month and it's not your fault, your a victim.

Pray while there is still time


markert2523

Yes, that is felt.  It supposedly keeps the joist from rotting.  There is an expensive tape-like material made for this but the felt was cheap.  I'm not too worried about water as the porch will be covered the entire length, but the contractor thought it was a good idea.

MountainDon

It might help prevent wood on wood squeaks, but I can't see any advantage for wood longevity. Felt absorbs moisture just like wood does. That is how it allows water vapor to pass through a wall, inside to outside, when used as a weather resistant barrier.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

markert2523

Don, I guess I'll file this under the "probably won't hurt" category.


rick91351

Quote from: MountainDon on September 13, 2013, 08:33:51 AM
It might help prevent wood on wood squeaks, but I can't see any advantage for wood longevity. Felt absorbs moisture just like wood does. That is how it allows water vapor to pass through a wall, inside to outside, when used as a weather resistant barrier.

I have seen that in a couple custom builds here in Idaho a while back.  (Pre building bust)  One explanation I liked was softer wood-fibers laying flat on a knife edge 2X8 or 10 DF joist is apt to or does wear a groove into the flooring.  So to prolong wear and ease the noise and lessen nail pops they used such a material between the two.     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

John Raabe

I think that the felt strip between joists and decking is a good inexpensive idea in wet climates. It will cut down the gross water that will be running down and soaking the joists. While probably not needed on a covered porch, it can extend the life of an exposed open deck - especially one where non-PT joists are used. While not a good practice, decks are still being built with standard lumber.
None of us are as smart as all of us.


markert2523

Rafters for sleeping porch shed roof are up.  Fairly low slope at 2/12.  Any suggestions for what to put under the metal roof at this slope?  May have to spring for full coverage Grace ice & water shield but it sure is pricey and was like working with glue traps last time I used it. 

markert2523

Contractor got the 8x8 cedar porch posts up today.  I'm really glad we went with 8x8 instead of 6x6, which would have been sufficient but would have looked skinny on the large porch.


Roof sheathing going up.  I guess I better settle on a metal roof color soon.

pmichelsen

That porch is going to be really nice. Looks like you'll have room for anything.

SouthernTier

Quote from: markert2523 on August 27, 2013, 08:21:21 AM
I finally finished up my work shift (7days on/7 days off) and got up to see the progress.  The ledger hasn't been flashed yet--but it will be.  In fact it is only tacked up and through-bolted in a few places.  It has many simpson lateral load devices locking it into the ijoists also.  The contractor has a big box of ledgerlok screws that will go in soon.
Looking good.

Got a technical question not directly related to your build.  When I build my cabin, it will also be on a hillside and so would make sense to build the deck early on as a platform for working on the front.

if the deck is built at the same time the floor is framed, is it necessary to provide as separate ledger board for the deck?  Why not just make the rim joist of the house where the deck attached out of PT wood, and attach the deck joists straight to that?  Then wouldn't have to worry about flashing or the ledger board detaching.

There must be a reason why that wouldn't be a good idea, but I haven't figured out what it is.

rdzone

I can't speak to all of your question, but my cabin is built into a hill as well.  I built a deck as a place to put the scaffolding so I could work on it safely.  It was a huge help, especially since the cabin is very tall on that side.
Chuck

pmichelsen

Quote from: SouthernTier on September 20, 2013, 01:07:47 PM
If the deck is built at the same time the floor is framed, is it necessary to provide as separate ledger board for the deck?  Why not just make the rim joist of the house where the deck attached out of PT wood, and attach the deck joists straight to that?  Then wouldn't have to worry about flashing or the ledger board detaching.

There must be a reason why that wouldn't be a good idea, but I haven't figured out what it is.

Doing this would leave your rim joist exposed to the elements, I'm sure there are other reasons but that is the first one that comes to mind.


markert2523

Southern,

I'm not sure about skipping the ledger and attaching straight to the rim.  I doubt that would meet code but I don't know enough to say why.  I've only seen the standard practice of rim and then ledger. 

Rdzone,

I agree the deck helps to provide a base to work on that side of the cabin.  We used the deck as a place to hoist a lot of the trusses up to floor height before hefting them up in place.

SouthernTier

I can't say I've memorized the code book, but I don't recall anything there that would prevent this.  My recollection is that one is to treat a deck as if it were another room, and typically ledger boards are not used for regular "rooms".

I looked closer at at the AWC guidance describing prescriptive deck construction (http://www.awc.org/publications/dca/dca6/dca6-09.pdf) and they show ledger boards everywhere, but it doesn't say anywhere that they are required.

The house's band joist would be open to the environment, but that's what it would have to be pressure treated.

So I still can't think of a good reason not to.  I think the use ledgers is because in so many cases, decks are added on after the fact, rather than as part of the build, at least in the past.  Just seems like there is a lot of effort going into trying to keep the ledger board from detaching and to keep moisture away from the ledger-to-building/band-joist interface that it would make sense to eliminate this altogether.

Sorry if this is a thread hijack  d*

markert2523

At any rate, I have a ledger 8)

Contractor is notching the 8x8 cedar for the top porch posts.  He and crew are really doing a good job.  The shed roof over the front porch will go on as soon as the posts and top beam are up.  I delivered 14 rolls of ice and water shield to the site yesterday.  I plan on full coverage I&WS for both shed roofs/transitions and a synthetic underlayment for the 8/12 main roof.


I've got to start thinking about the interior.  I have a bunch of 1950's metal kitchen cabinets that are in various condition.  I'm hoping to sand/paint them and maybe use them for the kitchen.  There are always mice in the nearby cabins and I think metal cabinets may prevent them from getting to my food.  If I can't use them for the kitchen cabinets, maybe I can put them in a pantry.  This one is an "Ampco" brand from the 50's and is in terrible shape.  I'm planning on sanding it down, spot priming and rolling on gloss Rustoleum oil base with a smooth foam mini-roller.  It may find a life as an outdoor cooking area on the front covered porch.

pmichelsen

Have you looked into having them stripped and powder coated? Seems like they might be primed candidates.

rick91351

Quote from: pmichelsen on September 25, 2013, 10:55:41 PM
Have you looked into having them stripped and powder coated? Seems like they might be primed candidates.

He beat me to it.   :o  If you would like to use the Youngstown Cabinets you might have them sandblasted and powder coated.  And you do not have to powder coat them in white.  Thought that was tradition.  There are a lot of nice soft colors that would look good with them and really high light them.    BTW they are making a come back in some circles and are very well prized and loved by some.  To me they are no more mouse / rodent proof than any other.  There is always those seams and holes and a drawer that is left ajar here or there.     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.