I, too, have a dream

[Sherry]

Not to trivialize the words of the late, great MLK,  but I have a dream on a much smaller scale.  I want to build a prototype of a house on the smallest possible budget for people who are usually not able to afford to even think about new houses.  It would be built in an inner-city area here in NJ, so could not be too "underground", no pun intended.  Code compliance is going to be the order of the day.

I have been reading books on affordable housing by people like Ken Kern and Alex Wade since the late 80's.  I have also been reading the websites for self-help and owner -built housing for a long time.  I am, however, a construction idiot/klutz who has never actually built anything.  I understand some of what I have been reading, but something seems to happen between theory and attempts at execution.  So I'm kind of limited on how much I can save on the price through hands-on involvement.  Given all this, why do I persist in this dream, you might be asking about now?  Must be something in the water in NJ, I don't know.

So this is what I've come up with.  I ask for all of you out there who are knowledgeable in building to please criticize, pick apart, point out flaws and hopefully suggest a better way.

The house would be about 1000 SF or as close as possible to that number while still incorporating 3 small  bdrms, 1 bath & kit/living  room area.  I think it would be best to go with the modern look like you see in Dwell Magazine and fabprefab book, due to the other mat'ls I'm thinking of utilizing.  At least some of the windows made of an acrylic mat'l. that looks remarkably like glass block, and even comes in operable assembled window units.  Very reasonably priced, too.  Slab foundation (needs footings below frostline in our area). Superior Walls makes precast concrete wall sections which are normally used for basement foundations, but the local rep has assured me that they can also be used above grade on a slab.  They are $75 a linear ft. 8 1/2 ft. tall (they also make 9 & 10 ft. heights for more $). This is an installed price and they are insulated and have studs installed, but I don't know if I would use the studs because I'm trying to avoid installing sheetrock.  I wouldn't need any siding.  Floor would be the concrete slab,  stained.  For heat maybe PEX tubes in floor (heated by water heater?)  Concrete floor in bathroom would slope down to a drain installed in floor for shower,  cutting down on the cost  of installing a shower.  I don't know if I could get away with not installing sheetrock, but if I could, maybe raceways for wiring?  (Kind of goes with the high tech, modern look, hopefully.)  For the roof structure, I was thinking flat or shed.  Or maybe SIPS panels (I guess it couldn't be flat for that, could it?)  Or Ondura.

Please let the slings and arrows fly now.  Is this at all feasible?

[Spyke]

If by inner city you mean ghetto or a bad area in terms of crime I would say forget it. I am a HVAC contractor by trade and I know lots of guys in the trades. Getting your tools ripped off or finding all the drywall you just hung smashed the next day is a bummer. You run into union problems, neighbour problems and I have a feeling the inspectors will be tougher then they would be out in the country.

I would contact the local Habitat for Humanity in the area. They may be able to help because they buildin the city all the time.

GOOD LUCK!!!

[glenn-k]

Hi Sherry,

It all depends on how bad you want to do it.  If you are trying to do it for yourself and are very determined, maybe you could-- for small profit for someone else as Spyke says- it may be a very hard battle.  I also have seen the tools disappear on jobs, even ones that are in good areas.  

You may want to contact the local public servants in the building department and get their ideas on the feasibility of such a project and on the lowest cost ways to do it.  If you are talking about a bad area, low cost may not be an option as you may have to go with indestructable.  I that case your concrete panels may be a way to go but I don't see it being cheap - but then again -its all relative depending on where you are.

To start you out you may want to investigate Ondura.  We had a discussion on it in the forum. In the past it hasn't always been real great- bordering on self destructing.   John provided a link.

http://countryplans.master.com/texis/master/search/?q=ondura&s=SS

[Lady_Novice]

Sherry,
I, too, have thought a lot about how to get the most house for the least amount of money. I was disappointed not to come up with much in the way of earth-shattering ideas but my future home should be fairly cost-efficient. I don't have time to write too much at the moment, but I'll just pass on a few comments at this time:
   o I'm not sure the $75 per lineal foot would be thrifty if I'm correct in estimating that would equate to about $9 or $10 per square foot of wall area. I haven't yet come up with a definite figure for the walls for the house I want to build but I expect the cost to be between $3 to $5 per square foot of wall area (for fairly standard construction), which includes the interior wood paneling. Of course, this estimate does not include labor (I plan to construct the walls myself). I realize the $75 is an installed price, so someone else may be able to comment about whether the absence of a separate labor charge means that the choice could be cost-efficient.
   o I'm not a fan of white walls and sheetrock, so my walls will be solid wood boards (tongue and groove cedar). Although this means my materials cost is higher (sheetrock is cheaper), I may come out ahead considering that drywall is generally not a do-it-yourself project. I don't know what a drywall contractor charges, but wood boards may be cheaper when labor is factored in. Plus wood boards look nicer (imho).
   o You might want to read about concrete pier foundations (see link on home page of countryplans.com), which can be relatively inexpensive. EDITED to add: In mentioning this, I forgot to address that you were discussing radiant in-floor heating, which I believe would require a slab. Others can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I believe in-floor heating would be too expensive for a low-cost project. (But perhaps someone knows whether the extra cost would be paid back eventually by energy savings.) If you did not have a slab, you could still get some thermal mass by putting cheap, large tiles on a wood subfloor.
   o Be sure to position the house so it gets winter sun (south-facing windows). Obvious but seemingly overlooked in modern tract housing.
   o Consider a two-story home (twice the square footage but roof and foundation are the same size as for a one-story home).
   o Carport rather than garage.
   o I'm sure you plan to stick to a simple square or rectangular house shape and a simple low-pitch roof. You mention a flat roof, but it's my understanding that a flat roof requires a special treatment that is not a do-it-yourself project (i.e., could be expensive).
Lady Novice

[Greenbank]

Sherry,

Are you thinking about building one of these, or a bunch? I think the easiest savings is going to be labor...no big revelation there. On a modest structure, surely the walls could all be framed on the floor of a warehouse, using a jig. Cut 300 of these, 40 of those, 60 of another. They slap into a jig, perfectly plumb, square and a nailgun has them assembled in no time. You could do ten houses worth in a week...this is assuming the houses are basically boxes, like the Rocio Romero LV House without the big windows and fancy siding.

The jig could have the openings marked, as well as indicators for holes for running wires, etc. Again, this isn't new stuff. But...

I've never understood why panelized houses are so expensive, but I'm also talking with my head up my backside, obviously.

Another concept I think is good is to make a wet core, with kitchen on one side of a interior wall and bathroom on the other side. That leaves the exterior walls free of plumbing, keeping them relatively simple.

Could your walls be sips with the interior left OSB, stained, perhaps? Does that save money over a conventional wall?

You'd also want to leverage economies of scale. If you put ten of these identical units up next to each other, you could pour ten slabs, etc., etc. If you use a factory wall system of some sort, an order for ten or 50 is going to bring the cost down.

What about what would essentially be "loft" housing? Imagining a 24' x 40' box, you'd run a wall across the inside, dividing it in two. On one side is the public area and on the other is the private. The kitchen is along this wall on the public side, and there is a bath on the private side. The bath could be made visually private with corrugated semi-opaque plastic panels or similar (in keeping with the high-tech theme). Perhaps the "rooms" are separated with a variation on that, avoiding costly interior framing and sheetrock. Dunno if that's even close to code.

All of this has been considered by far sharper and informed minds than mine...John's for instance, I imagine. I see lots of interesting concepts (often from "young" architects) drawn up, but they all fall down in execution. Somewhere the train gets derailed and what was going to be a (say) $30,000 structure becomes a $80,000 structure, becomes a $100,000 structure. I really like the Glide House, for example...at about half of its current price. At the price being asked, there are many different alternatives I like better.

[Daddymem]

I have dealt with Superior before on some modular houses on Nantucket.  The first house isn't complete yet so I cannot give an opinion on the quality, reliability, etc.  As a civil engineer, they appear to be a sound product.  I think there was an episode where the superior walls were used in an urban environment on This Old House.  One cost savings can be found in the gravel needed below the walls if you use a gravel shooter.  You'll have to look local, but here is one: http://www.gravelconveyors.com/
They claim to be able to shoot the gravel in level lifts faster than possible with the typical heavy equipment approach and I would think this would work great in a city environment.  

[Amanda_931]

My version of "the dream" started with student housing, and the Single Room Occupancy (SRO) places--inexpensive residence hotels, etc.

Tiny places, probably on two levels--loft with ladder in the original--"living room" underneath, teensy bathroom.  (toilet with hand-washer on top, shower basically the whole little room), space for a tiny refrigerator, sink, and hotplate (cheaper to buy those separately than as a kitchen in a box),  And then a community area with a bigger kitchen, individual storage, washing machines.

Owned like condominiums.  Eight or ten units per community area.

I don't think I ever got to the point of even deciding what to build these things out of, let alone costing it out.

I read a bit this morning that the latest thing in some university towns is "student apartments."  Priced and rented per student in a two or three bedroom apartment.  And not at all cheap, at least when I remember my student days, or even when I bought the house in Nashville.   I don't reall think you could have asked me to share an apartment with people who were chosen by the landlord.

[Sherry]

Thanks to all of you who have replied to my post.  To those of you who raised concerns about inner-city theft of mat'ls., vandalism, etc.  These things would not really be issues for me.  I have lived in and worked in some of the so-called "worst" for years (Newark, Camden) and have learned some about dealing with these kinds of things.  As for attracting skilled labor to these areas, again this is not really an issue.  I have found that there are always people living in or close to the inner cities (at least here in NJ) who can be hired.  And of course unskilled labor abounds.  The problem with the skilled labor is the same everywhere, but especially in an urban state like this--high rates.  That is why I wanted to eliminate the sheetrock and siding and their attendant installation costs.  Of course this has the additional advantage of making the bldg. more indestructible, as one of you mentiioned.  It is also what attracted me to the Superior Walls product--the cost is an installed one, and would come already (effectively) insulated and sided.  The cost per linear ft. sounds high, but when I multiply it out for, say, a 25 x 40 bldg. of 1000 sf,  I come up with $9,750.  With the cost of the roof structure and finish roofing plus slab foundation (I have no notion as to what these last few things will cost),  this gives me a shell.  Have I missed anything?  How much could the roof and foundation possibly cost, anyway?  

Returning to the labor issue, in terms of unskilled labor, I think it would be great to be able to offer jobs where they're needed since that is where I would be building.  But then in order to do that I would have to know what I'm doing to put myself in a position to show others, and like I said, I'm a construction dunce.  In spite of reading about it until I'm blue in the face.  So I'm trying to think of ways of avoiding labor where possible.  

Greenbank, your sentiments about some of the Dwell and fabprefab homes coincide with mine EXACTLY.  The whole premise is supposed to be affordable.  The fabprefab book was published in 2004 and one of the architects had a model called Quikbuild which the book claimed cost "under $50,000".  It is now featured on the architect's  website for $76,000.  Huh?  I guess my idea of affordable differs from the norm.  They are sleek, stylish houses but I wonder about the livability of some of them even aside from true affordability issues.

As far as the notion of a kind of "assembly line" production, I agree that should bring the cost down more and would have the side benefit of providing jobs where they are much needed.  However, I am not even close to being able to pull something like that off.  As a long-term or ultimate goal, yeah.  But right now, the prototype.  I know I sound obsessed (I am), but I just can't see why it couldn't be done.   So this is why I invite your help and suggestions, which I appreciate.

[Sherry]

I forgot doors and windows.  Sake of argument, let's say 10 windows 2 doors $3000 installed.  Am I far off here?  So now I'm up to $12,750 plus cost of slab foundation, roofing system and finish roof.  I know there are lots of you out there with a pretty good idea of roughly what these items would cost, and what kind of installed roofing system would end up being the most economical.  Please humor me and let's finish the exercise just for fun.  If someone can come up with reasonable ballpark figures for these items (25 x 40 slab with frost footings, roof system and finish roofing, plus anything else I might have forgotten) we will have built a house (on paper) which includes a 1000 SF one story insulated shell with windows and doors, finished roof and siding,  and subfloors and finished floors combined.  I know there's somebody out there willing and able to play along with this little scenario so we can see where it goes.

[t.zakas]

I have a small home of 988 sq ft.  It has 3 bdrms and 2 baths.  While the bedrooms are not large the master will accomodate a king size bed, night stands and small dressers.  It also has two closests.   The second bedrooms will each take 2 twin beds.  Hence, my input  to your project is to plan to increase your bathrooms to two; one with a tub and one with a shower.  There is space.  Put your furnace in the ceiling to save floor space.  Pay close attention to the floor plan; traffic patterns from front door to kitchen and kitchen to bedrooms can influence greatly to how livable your house is.

If you get to the point that you are actually going to build one of these, I'd love to work with you on the floorplan.

[Lady_Novice]

Sherry, sorry I wouldn't know specific answers; this is just a general comment. YMMV, and I don't know if others would agree, but I'd venture to say that labor rates are highly variable from one area or city to the next, depending on factors like whether a housing boom is going on, the strictness of codes, and cost of living there. Even within the same area, you might get a surprisingly wide range of labor cost quotes from different subcontractors. (Of course, architect and/or general contractor labor would also be variable and would add a lot to the total cost.)

At the same time, I believe the cost for MATERIALS alone is fairly stable and this cost is more controllable because you can choose the type and quality.

So all of the above could explain why people get interested in the doing the labor and favoring do-it-yourself methods. People find that they can easily figure out the cost of just materials and save money because it's the labor that's the real bugaboo, not the materials.

So, in a way, perhaps that explains why, in some areas I've seen, it seemed as if all the new housing was the modular type (i.e., the house is constructed elsewhere and moved to the lot), because the labor costs are controlled by being embedded in the price.

But more power to you in your research! I'm always interested in money-saving ideas.
Lady Novice