Hoping to help an invalid out... can you look this over please?

Started by NM_Shooter, January 09, 2010, 08:59:37 PM

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NM_Shooter

I know a guy who has lost his mobility.  He has not been able to get into his bathroom for 4 years, as his wheelchair can't make it into the door.  When he was ambulatory, he stood about 6'7 and all of 350#.  His teeny little wife has been managing his hygiene and health care for that time out in the living room of their house.

I think I can widen his bathroom door to 36" so that he can get his chair through the door.  I'm not sure what happens then, as the bath is a narrow one.  But his wife seems to think it will help.  So I am going to try to figure this out.  I could use your input if you can share the time.

I don't think the inner wall that this door resides in is load bearing.  I'm going to take a look in the attic and see. 

The door is currently a left handed door, opening in, with the vanity immediately along the right side as you walk in.  Mirror and sink immediately on the right as you walk in.  Short counter, then toilet on the right.  Dead ahead is the bathtub and shower, controls for the bath on the right wall.

Here are the challenges, and how I am going to deal with them.  Please chime in.

1)  Electrical : The light and fan switch on the inside of the door frame, right hand side as you are walking in.  I'll need to open up and move the jam side frame towards the sink cabinet about 6".  There is space to do this, but I'll need to relocate the electrical box, which means stretching the wires a bit.  I am planning on using an old-work box for the new switch box, and probably putting an old work box in the ceiling to allow me to drop in longer wires in case the old wiring won't stretch.  Are there any code issues with how close the wall switch can be with regards to the sink? 

2)  Frame work : My plan is to sawzall around the existing door frame and pull that out.  Then remove the sheet rock that covers just the header, maybe go an inch or two up the upper cripples so that I can see the cripples on both sides of the door.  I'll leave the hinge side alone, but the jam side I will sawzall the king stud out flush with the top of the header and pull the king stud and lower cripple.  Cut the header loose from the cripples above it with my sawzall.  Leave the upper cripples hanging.  Now the tricky part.  I need to figure out a way to build up a cripple and king pair, and insert it into the wall at the right spot to support the new door frame.  I think I can then toe nail the upper cripples back onto the header, and then go into the attic and toe nail the king back to the top plates.    My plan is to then cover all this mess up with some scrap sheetrock , and then use very wide trim to scab over this mess and use painted wood trim to hide the fact that I can't do tape and texture. 

3)  Question... I am wondering if I change the door into an outswing, right handed door if this will violate code?  If I do this, I open up some critically needed space along the inside left wall of the bathroom and make maneuvering easier.  Is it against code to make a bathroom door outswing into the hallway?

Any thoughts, suggestions, whatever appreciated. 
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

Redoverfarm

Boy Frank it would have helped if you could have captured some of this on film.  Others more familar with code would probably render the right approach.  For me just the logical.

1. If he has a chair I am sure that an inswing door would be better.  Sort of hard to roll up, turn the knob and then roll back while holding the knob to open.  Inswing just turn the knob and push it open or let the chair wheel bump it.  If it is not load bearing you might consider a pocket door. I have two bathrooms and they were built according to code and both are In-swings.  Not sure if that was an option or code but seems the majority are set up this way.  Maybe to keep restricting traffic in the hallway.

2. I think any junction box has to be exposed with a plate covering for access. I don't believe there is anything regarding the switch being close to the sink but a outlet I believe has to be ground fault.

Is the shower and bath together.  You may want to persuade them to upgrade if possible to a new type shower/tub with a gasket hinged door for the bath tub function.

If the wall is load bearing you should be able to temporarily shore it up and make the adjustment to the width of the opening with the proper framing and remove the supports.

I will give you an "A" for your thoughts and attempts but if your friend is going to be wheel chair restricted then it sounds as if they need to make their home more user friendly.  Yes that cost but the alternative is more painful.  



PEG688

  So you can't  move the door toward the hinge side? I assume it's right in , or 3" a stud and trimmer away for the corner.


  There is NO code about interior doors , you don't by "code" really need doors at all. The bank may like doors but building depts only require exterior doors and garage to house doors.


 On swing into the hall way , that will be clumsy , add the wheel chair and you're talking a real PITA.

Pocket door might be better IF the wall is no-bearing and IF there is room to have the pocket door space. You could maybe panel the whole hallway if S/R is a big issue.

 You might call a local builders association they MIGHT donate some part ,  labor , materials,  etc to your good works.

 If the wall light switch stays in the existing wall it won't be any closer to the sink , IF I'm reading your posts right , but still and all I don't think it will be a issue.

 
There's little tricks to replacing your king stud if these other suggestions can't work out for you.




 


When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

NM_Shooter

Thanks for the quick replies.  He won't be using the bathroom by himself.  Not yet anyway.  I think he is scheduled to have his bad foot removed and with a prosthetic he might be able to get around a bit easier. 

Yes.. the door hinge is about as close to the wall as you can put it, with just a stud and trimmer offset.  If the door swings in, then they get a couple of inches in the bath for manuevering.  If the door swings out, there is no chance a guy in a chair could close it behind him.  I think I'll let them make that call. 

No room for a pocket door.  That same wall has a utility closet to the left, and a short wall to the right.  I'm stuck with hinges. 

I am going to try and take some pix tomorrow, maybe start on the electrical work and see if I can make any sense of this. 

I think  d* I can do this in 8 hours. 
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

rwanders

 ???  If you widened the doorway as much as possible, would one of  those accordian pleat doors work?
Rwanders lived in Southcentral Alaska since 1967
Now lives in St Augustine, Florida


PEG688


Another question is how far into the bath room is the vanity? Generally it's pretty close to the door and the added width , it would seem might cause the swing door to hit the counter-top edge.

  Without a plan or photos of course all that is a guess.

The folding door would be a PITA a person in a wheel chair.

  Biefolds would be the same PITA. The pocket door would be the best. More work, yes! Maybe the closet could be accessed from the other side / different room?

Yikes,,,,,,,,   lots of work !!!!!     
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

fishing_guy

We did this 10 years ago for my mother-in-law, albiet it one off of her bedroom.  We took the door out completely, cut out 4" out of the jamb and reframed it without the door.  We also just flipped the light switch to the outside of the room, as it was very close to the shower if left inside the bathroom.

It was not ideal, but it served it's purpose.  She has been gone for 8 years now, but we have yet to replace the door.

Maybe a set of curtains for privacy?

A bad day of fishing beats a good day at work any day, but building something with your own hands beats anything.

PEG688



The curtain idea might work for them , it's a better option than the one they've been using. 
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

rwanders

"The pocket door would be the best. More work, yes! Maybe the closet could be accessed from the other side / different room?"

Yikes,,,,,,,,   lots of work !!!!!     

I agree PEG, a pocket door is the best solution if at all possible-----I have used them often, especially for bathrooms or other smaller spaces where door swing space is limited. 
Rwanders lived in Southcentral Alaska since 1967
Now lives in St Augustine, Florida


firefox

I would suggest putting in the frame and hinges if you can't do the pocket doors,
but don't put in the door. Use the curtains so that they are available for guests, but keep them tied to one side. Your friends don't need any privacy from each other at this point. Trust me I know.
When he adjuststs to the prothestic he can have the door put in if he wants to.

Bruce
Bruce & Robbie
MVPA 23824

NM_Shooter

Thanks Bruce... that is a great idea.  I am going to call in a bit and see if I can come over and take a look.  I'll make that suggestion about leaving the hall bath door off; guests will have to just use the master bath. 

(Or maybe I should look at opening up the door to the master bedroom, and the door to the master bath instead.  Maybe no new door would need to be put into the master bath door way.  Hmmmmmm ??? )

No way am I doing a pocket door.  I just don't have the time to do the refinish work that would be required.  I'll open the door up as much as possible (I seem to remember that a 36" door wil clear the vanity, but might not leave room for trim). 

After sleeping on it, I also am thinking I can't get access to the attic to do the wiring.  Too shallow a roof pitch, and the bathroom is on an outer wall.  I am going to put the splice box for the electrical in the wall up near the ceiling.  Probably a better idea than in the ceiling in the hallway.   

Thanks again for the comments.  What's the quote?  None of us is as smart as all of us?
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

davidj

Quote from: NM_Shooter on January 10, 2010, 11:43:12 AM
Thanks again for the comments.  What's the quote?  None of us is as smart as all of us?

That's not what my motivational inspiration said  :)

PEG688



One more option MIGHT be a barn style door that rolls left or right sure it would block the closet BUT how often do you need both doors in use at the same time.

It will cut into the hallway width BUT if this may work , and IF you understand what I'm saying about it I can draw up a sketch and shoot a photo of the "workings" of the hardware,

  So this door would slide right over the existing wall outside of the wall.

   
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

firefox

Hey Peg, I might be able to use that solution here.
I have a similar situation. I'd love to see what you have in mind.
Bruce
Bruce & Robbie
MVPA 23824


PEG688

Quote from: firefox on January 11, 2010, 12:46:00 AM

Hey Peg, I might be able to use that solution here.
I have a similar situation. I'd love to see what you have in mind.
Bruce

 

I'll be doing a set of door later this month , if thats soon enough the photos as I do it will be more complete.

 
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .

NM_Shooter

That's a good idea too PEG...

I went over yesterday and took a bunch of measurements.  The door that he is currently getting through to get to bed is only a 30" door.  The bathrooms could accomodate a change in door size from 24" to 32".  A 36" door will not fit. 

We talked a lot about their options.  I suggested opening up their master bath door instead of the hall bath door, as that way they could keep the door off the hinges and leave the hall bath alone.... guests would still have the hall bath door for privacy. 

I talked with his wife about transfer issues once he was in the bathroom.  The baths are small (this is a small home) and trying to get this guy from his chair to the shower or toilet might be a challenge. 

I told them that I was donating the labor.  The door would cost ~$50, the trim ~$30, and maybe some misc stuff of $20 or so.  They are now trying to figure out which bathroom, and if it even makes sense to do this given that the transfer issues are such a pain.  God bless his wife.  She is a saint and an exemplary spouse.  He's lucky to have her.
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

fishing_guy

A bad day of fishing beats a good day at work any day, but building something with your own hands beats anything.

Redoverfarm

Quote from: NM_Shooter on January 11, 2010, 11:55:58 AM
That's a good idea too PEG...



I talked with his wife about transfer issues once he was in the bathroom.  The baths are small (this is a small home) and trying to get this guy from his chair to the shower or toilet might be a challenge. 


Frank that is what I was talking about with the hinged door tub.  There would be minimal lifting and mostly just support to slide through the door. Close and fill the tub.  Although if he still has strength in his arms a ring suspended by chain from a ceiling joist could assist him. Sort of like a gymnastic ring. The toilet usually is dependent on a grab bar.

I thought for sure you would take some pics to give us the layout and maybe some suggestions.

Redoverfarm