Name that Foundation

[Bellla]

I need assistance identifying a foundation type.  Is there a difference between a pier and beam foundation and the post and pier foundation that is detailed for the little house?

:-?

Bellla

[Amanda_931]

There appears to be a typo here (beams that are 4-foot x 6 foot--not common anywhere, but as late as 1970??)--either that or I don't know what they mean by beam.  (they could mean a 4 foot by 6 foot grid    that would mean a lot of driven piles)  But if the rest of this is right then this is what was replaced by slab-on-grade.  So the beams here may not--or only barely--be above ground level.  Not for high termite areas.  Also here there is talk about "driven" as opposed to dug with a pad in the bottom of the hole.

I have wondered if a post and a pier aren't the same thing, at least in terms of how they work above ground.  

But John's foundation--posts and/or piers (holding the house foundation at a fair distance above the ground) might be a replacement for the Southeastern little stacks of rocks supporting the wooden building.  Much better in earthquake areas, I'd think.

Here in the Southeast, a crawl-space tends to be bordered by a solid footing (twice as wide as the foundation) and foundation of concrete block, possibly brick.  Occasional posts in the interior of the same material and design.  Going down into the ground less than two feet, stepped where necessary, out of the ground not less than 18" to stay out of (soil-based) termite reach (if you didn't, it sank like the kitchen in my house in Nashville).  Beams under the joists where necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_and_beam_foundation

Piers are driven into the soil underneath a building at depths from 12 to 15 feet supporting wooden beams (most often sized 4 feet by 6 feet) that in turn support the floorboards of a building. This type of foundation results in crawlspace underneath the foundation in which wiring and ductwork can be laid during construction or remodeling. Slab-on-grade foundations replaced pier and beam foundations in most construction

[Bellla]

The reason I ask is that a friend is wanting to build a timberframe house and said she would use a typical pier and beam foundation to save on costs.  I remembered a discussion I read somewhere (the old forum maybe?) where a post & pier foundation was the topic.  I recalled that someone mentioned that some counties do not like a post & pier foundation and I recommended that she check with her county.  Are my friend and I talking two different types of foundations here?  Is a crawlspace foundation with piers to support larger spans called pier & beam?  Can John's pier only - no perimeter foundation - also be called pier & beam?

Thanks for your assistance.

Bellla

[glenn kangiser]

I'm not sure on the technical names of some of this stuff.  Here is John's foundation page.

http://countryplans.com/foundation/index.html

[PEG688]

Is there a difference between   (A)  a pier and beam foundation and the (B) post and pier foundation that is detailed for the little house?

Bellla

  IMO your talking about the same thing only in one case , the 1st one , (A)  a pier and beam foundation: Your talking about the pier, (cement footing under the post) and the beam ,( the larger member under the floor joist, or possibly a T&G 2x floor decking ). So it's "given "that there is a post between the two in this case.  Generally the post vary in height as in this system the concrete is poured in a hole in the ground , the beam is level the post make up any difference in height.

Case (B) ,  post and pier foundation your talking about the post coming up from the cement footing , and the pier( the concrete footing under the post).  

Option B describes the foundation / base unit better , option  A is not "as good" a description of the same thing .

 Symantec's IMO.

G/L PEG

[Okie_Bob]

Down here a pier and beam foundation is where you dig a continuous footing around the perimeter of the house to be built and possibly even some other footings in key places. Then you build a concrete block wall on top of the footing to the desired height. You place piers inside this perimeter foundation wall anywhere you determine you need them.
I just complegted this exact type foundation two weeks ago. I have pics but, alas, don't know how to download them on here. Glen I could send them to you via email if you want to put them up.
Okie Bob
PS: of course I'll need your email address Glenn

[glenn kangiser]

Fine BoB --- no problem - I'm on dial up tonight though.  I think my e-mail is on the bottom of this posting.

Note that you can put one picture on each of your postings directly from your computer by attaching a jpeg in the box below the message composing box -- where it says attach -- hit the browse button and it will let you look on your computer for the picture and post it.

[Okie_Bob]

Thanks Glenn, I hope the pic comes thru and shows the piers. If not, I'll try again.
Hope this helps.
Okie Bob

[John Raabe]

In general we are all talking about the same type of foundation.

When I use the term "post and pier" it covers the wooden posts and concrete piers that support the beams of this foundation type. This is (to my mind, anyway  ) a more general term than "post and beam" or "pier and beam"... but the result is the same.

It is also true, as Okie_B is getting at, that the inside supports of a perimeter foundation often have beams supported by wooden posts resting on concrete piers or (more commonly) pads.

Ain't construction fun  8-)... now we can get into regional differences in names for the same thing.

[Bellla]

Thanks guys!  I'm beginning to think my friend and I were talking apples and oranges.  I'll check with my friend, but I now think she is meaning a continuous perimeter foundation with piers (pads) to support any long spans between the outside foundations. (I'm guessing they will be like Okie-Bobs pics when they come through)  I originally thought she meant piers only.  The issue I remembered reading about a while back involved someone mentioning that some counties did not like the piers only method, but I can't find the discussion I remember.   I appreciate all the great feedback.



Bellla

[glenn kangiser]

I have Bob's pics in e-mail but have to wait until I get to a high speed line to get them.  Working out of town.

[glenn kangiser]

At a motel with high speed now --- Here's Bob's pix.

[Okie_Bob]

Hey, thanks Glen. What I guess you can't see are the piers inside the foundation walls. There are 5 in this foundation, just the way it worked out. They were simply holes dug into the ground, filled with concrete
and then a square tower, if you will, of concrete blocks up to the same level as the foundation walls.
This is a pretty inexpensive foundation and also pretty stable. We don't get really cold weather so it is marginal from a freeze standpoint. By that I mean the underside of the floor can get pretty cold and plumbing run under the floor can freeze if you don't protect it.
I like this type foundation due to the 'softness' of the floor. It just seems to be more comfortable to me than a concrete slab.
Also, as you can tell, it would have taken a LOT of fill before a slab could be poured and that would not be real stable.
Okie Bob
Glenn, thanks again for posting the pics!!

[glenn kangiser]

No problem, Bob.