what to do about water lines freezing ?

Started by cvcman, August 27, 2008, 08:17:35 PM

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cvcman

Ok lets say we build a post and pier foundation. How does the water line run into the house so it will not freeze in cold weather ?

I always wondered on houses with a crawl space or slab hoise so i assume this would be the same idea it sems as though where the piping comes out of the ground under the house it would freeze  :-\

John Raabe

There are a lot of different solutions to this problem. A lot depends on how cold your climate is, if the home is unoccupied for long periods and if there is reliable power.

Worst case: A very cold climate and a remote cabin without reliable power means you need to shut off the water at the source or main valve and drain the house system before you leave.

If you have power and water pressure throughout the winter, you are unlikely to have problems as long as the house is minimally heated and a faucet is left with a bit of water running when you are away for extended periods. But any house, not just one with a pier foundation, will crack pipes if the pump and heat are both off for long periods of cold weather with the lines pressurized.

Some people do things like build an insulated box around the shut off valve with a light bulb on for heat. This may buy a bit of time but won't help in a long feeze with no power.

Come to think of it, this might be a great application for a small solar system to take on when you leave. In my climate long cold spells are always also clear winter sun spells. Let the sun run a couple of resistance cable wraps or a light bulb in the crawlspace.
None of us are as smart as all of us.


MountainDon

Our cabin in the woods will be sitting anywhere from 4 or 5 days to months without use. It gets cold enough to have snow accumulate to several feet deep. It is off grid. There will be no heating when we are not there.

Therefore we will have to drain the system when the freezing weather gets close. I've had years of RV experience and plan to install the fresh water supply piping with similar designed in low points equipped with drain valves. I'll have a small air compressor on site with ports to then blow out the pipes and fixtures with a minimum of fuss and bother.

As for the drains I haven't yet decided if we'll be using RV plumbing antifreeze or try out drain valves like peternap had thought of.

If you have any water pressure gauges anywhere in the system my past cold weather experiences indicate that all such gauges should be removed and stored in a warm place. The smallest bit of moisture in a gauge seems to doom them to failure if frozen. Applies to water filled fire extinguishers as well.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Redoverfarm

Sort of along those lines what is said for the well water line. Yes it is usually placed below the freeze depth but there is a portion which has to come up into the cabin.  All others can be drained above that point but there is still that one location that is open to freeze.  The check valves would prevent it from going back down the line.  Say your well line is at 24" .  How are you going to drain that particular portion.

TheWire

There is a fitting that allows you to install a small plastic or copper tube back down your supply line from your well.  It has a tire type air fitting allowing you to inject air through the tube to blow the water out of the line.


rwanders

Here in Alaska (land of the frozen pipes) water lines are usually buried 10' deep and if you have a well many people use a pressure tank which has a "bleed back valve". It allows the line to automatically drain back into the well after the pump cycles off so the only time the line has water in it is while the pressure tank is being recharged. If the home is going to be unheated, then you must drain/blow down the interior lines, fill the p-traps with RV antifreeze, and don't forget that some valves such as shower valves will retain some water and must be dismantled to completely drain them.
Rwanders lived in Southcentral Alaska since 1967
Now lives in St Augustine, Florida

MountainDon

Quote from: rwanders on August 28, 2008, 12:35:08 AM
...don't forget that some valves such as shower valves will retain some water and must be dismantled to completely drain them.

Excellent point. That's where the more simple "old fashioned" separate cold and hot valves are superior to the one piece, one handle, temperature regulated cool newer stuff.



PITA

And when you get to my stage in life you need a check list for when you are leaving the place.
(I left the water heater on pilot when we left last weekend.  >:(  I meant to shut it off... not freezing there yet.   :D )
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

cvcman

Ok maybe I wasn't clear. I know the water lines are below frost line BUT what about where the water line comes up and out of the ground under the house and that house is a slab or crawl space ?? Also we are NOT leaving in the winter..

There are many slab houses in my area but it seem as though the water lines would freeze where it come up thru the ground under the slab ??

Redoverfarm