more pier and beam questions

[Chateau Prideaux]

Lots of questions here, so please be patient... I've got the plans for the 20x30 1.5 story cottage and I've look through all the awesome pictures of others who build this plan. I'm planning to build out the full upper floor (not just loft), with the ballon framed taller studs to increase the height of the kneewall.

Is there a how-to for creating the built up beams. I didn't see it in the plans (I may have just missed it), other than,
3 - 2x12 and 2 - 1/2" ply. Glue and Nail... offset joints min 4'

Is there a specific nail type and nailing pattern? What glue is recommended? Does the glue need to be spread out or just a long line drawn along the board face?

Should the joints be placed over the pier/posts? This seems like good practice, but I figured it wouldn't be necessary based on the  offset joints min 4', as this would allow the butt joints to occur in an unsupported area.

-Also-

Do you have any specific guidance on the bracing for tall posts? I think I'll have at least 6' tall posts  along the 30' long side, should the 45^o bracing start near the base of the post (which would collide with the bracing from the next post 7.5' away), 1/2 way up, or is location pretty 'flexible ( )'? I could imagine bracing that was notched and crossing to the adjacent post's top end. This might be unnecessarily stout (how's that quote go again ), but would look pretty cool.  

Does a wrap around porch follow the same pier plan (7'6" apart) as the perimeter?

Should there be a center beam as well? The 20' span seems wide. If so, does this also fall true for a built out upper floor? I've seen set of pics that did build in a beam to help support the second floor. Would this reduce the lumber from 2x12 to something smaller (2x8, 2x10). I'm sure I've got this buried in a book somewhere, but I'd like practical experience to rule on these kinds of questions.

Thanks!

[PEG688]

Jeesh yo do have a lot of questions    You sure John doesn't have a nailing sch. for the beams ?  If not a row of three , 6 to 8" away,two nails , 6 to 8" three, etc , I rarely use glue more hype than go ,IMO, but if he spec.ed it use const. adh. like you'll use on your sub floor, tube it out about 3 " between beads .

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I'd stager all the joints and I'd insure theyALL fell over a post.

Your tall post bracing will be a" it depends "answer. Your local inspector would be best to answer , not knowing what wind / earthquake zone  etc etc your in any advice would be a shot in the dark, IMO.

If your not getting inspected , see my tag line , your ideas seem OK , but again it depends on other unknowns to me / us .

Hope that helps , if I missed some thing re- ask , you had a lot in one post.    

[glenn kangiser]

Bracing is stronger if it goes all the way down and all the way up diagonally but there are lots of variations - two halfways meet in the middle etc.  Half way down could break the vertical member easier or cause it to flex but clear down to the foundation pier will be much more solid.  A truss type brace could have x's from bottom to top.  I did one building that had multiple x bracing on 4 walls to 82' high.  Ends of the x's all tied together causing the whole structure to be very strong.

I guess that is why people always come up behind you and kick you behind the knee instead of the ankle.  It's not funny if they try the ankle- too solid - you don't fall over---  OK -- that wasn't funny either --- sounds like some stupid high school prank. :-/

[PEG688]

I guess that is why people always come up behind you and kick you behind the knee instead of the ankle.  It's not funny if they try the ankle- too solid - you don't fall over---  OK -- that wasn't funny either --- sounds like some stupid high school prank. :-/

You need to  hang out with nicer people if they AWAYS are doing that to ya   Or you need to kick some ....next time the one of jokers pulls it again, showum who's who, no 1/2 way measures , eh  

[glenn kangiser]

There were a couple of class bullies when I was in school -pulled pranks like that-- picked on anyone smaller than them which included most of the students--one went to prison - came out pretty good  -- his buddie sold drugs - became a plumber - not a good one- killed someone by selling them drugs - finally he OD'd on drugs himself and died.  Call me mean but I enjoyed the ending of that story.

[PEG688]

THey HAD SCHOOLS when you where a kid   Where did the wagon pick you up ?  

[glenn kangiser]

I had to walk about a mile sometimes -- end of the road I guess.  Have I mentioned that I was not a team player? .... of course I have.

I used to love it when my dog would bite my mom's ankles as she pushed me yelling and screaming onto the bus. :-/  Guess I wasn't a fan of government schooling then either.

[John Raabe]

I want to show you what you can do with a post and beam foundation if you are really gutsy!

This is a two story building near me built into a sand cliff. I am standing on the patch of beach that will likely be the future new location for this buildiing.  

[John Raabe]

CP - If you have specific questions about plans they should be posted in the Plan Support forum. I am more likely to see them in a timely fashion.

The beam called out in the plan is an engineered glu-lam, I am not giving specific detailed directions for building the alternative built-up beam because I am not claiming it to be an engineered solution (it may not be approved in some locations). That said, PEGs suggestions for nailing sound about right to me.

The Universal cottage has an alternative layout for the 20' wide buildings with an interior beam and smaller joists. This is an option for any of the 20' wide buildings. The full span engineered joists work quite well going the full 20' - many folks have built these plans that way (including some who were initially worried about the span). One fellow who was skeptical wrote back to say "trust the plans" - after it was built he was very happy with the stiffness of the floor.

[Chateau Prideaux]

CP - If you have specific questions about plans they should be posted in the Plan Support forum. I am more likely to see them in a timely fashion.

Will do. Thanks for the help!

The Universal cottage has an alternative layout for the 20' wide buildings with an interior beam and smaller joists.

What size joists did it use with the center beam?

Thanks!

[John Raabe]

A 2x8 is plenty for a 10' span. You can check a span table or your lumberyard and they may have 2x6's that will work as well.