How hard would this be to do?

Started by Miedrn, August 23, 2006, 05:45:48 PM

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Miedrn

I'm back to the drawing board. I thought frost protected shallow foundations would be the way to go but after reading a bit, I've decided against it. Considering that Michigan has had a few storms that knocks out your power in the winter, I don't want to take the chance of my foundation heaving.

Looks like it's a basement after all which means I'm looking for a small footprint.

Take a look at this:

http://www.globalhouseplans.com/house_plans_get_18912_us_small.htm

I've always liked Johns plans and for this price of those, I could buy the Enchilada kit and the 1 1/2 story 20' wide. The basic shape is the same as well as the height. Johns would have more interest I think too inside and I like the idea of having two lofts - more room for the family to visit. (8/12 vs. 12/12)

I can get windows at cost and I really like those arches. How difficult would that be to do on Johns plans? Isn't it just sizing the beams?

What changes would I need to make to put it on a basement? I have basement plans, couldn't I just use those and put John's on top of it? Is there something about the framing being on top of a basement that I should consider?

I can always add a gazebo or screened porch off the kitchen later. I'm not crazy about it being attached to the roof anyway.

Thanks again for your expertise!

JRR

I wonder if you could just use the "unheated building" guidelines to make Frost Protected Foundations work for you?
.
http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/DesignGuides/revisedFPSFguide.pdf


Miedrn

Unless I'm mistaken, in our area we would have to go down so far that a basement might as well be built.

I posted a link to the plans I was going to use in the links section. They were from some Nebraska energy association and I'm trying to do this as inexpensively as I can. I just want to own a house.

I better check it out again to make sure. To be honest, I didn't think of that! Duh! :)

It would be nice to save that amount of money. They're marketed for affordability but I have to wonder how much that extra insulation would cost.

JRR

#3
I know nothing about building in the cold areas (Heck, I know nothing about building in warm areas.) .  But it would seem that successful full-footprint drainage might be all one needs to avoid frost-heave.

A few inches thickness of foam insulation extending outward horizontally in all directions for the recommended distance away from the slab/footing would just be good insurance.

Of course, when it comes time to sell ... best to have what the neigbors have.

Hopefully someone with real experience will advise.

Miedrn

I spent about an hour pouring over the requirements for these foundations - I understood some of what I read! :)

Most of the publications emphasize drainage most of all. They've done them in Scandanavia for years without problems. They must lose power at times, but I am worried most about the details I guess.

Thanks for your replies, appreciate it!


Amanda_931

Where in Scandinavia might be a question.  Parts are the equivalent of USDA chill zone 7.  :-?  We've always assumed that they were in parts of inland Finland or someplace else that has a 14 foot snow cover every winter.  And I would think probably that's true.

There are post type foundation systems that claim that since dirt won't stick to them they can't frost heave--at least one of these as simple as wrapping the posts in plastic bags.

(after coffee I might get organized to look up one that has been posted here--on another computer I think I have the company URL)

The deal is that it is water turning to ice that causes the problem.  No water, no ice, no problem.  Or if a post can't be picked up by rising dirt/ice and water, again, no problem.

Frank Lloyd Wright used some variant on shallow frost protected foundations in a lot of his houses.  I have heard about problems with Wright vuildings (roofs in general and excesssively long cantilevered roofs in particular), but haven't noticed anything about frost heave.  Don't know if he used those in away-from-the-lakes houses.  I am not a Wright scholar, only since I've actually been in a Wright house that I've understood what the fuss is about.

MIEDRN

Oslo, Norway where the average February temperature is 19 degrees.

Comparable to Michigan!

John_C

Amanda  I'd like to hear more about what you liked and didn't like about the F. Lloyd Wright house(s) you were in.   I've been a fan ever since I spent a few weeks in one back in the late '60's.  It was the first house I had been in with radiant floor heat (Wright called it gravity heat).  That was by far the best heating system I've ever been around.  The integration of indoor - outdoor environments was also great.

If find myself planning on building a new house in the near future and old back injuries and a recent broken hip make building flat roof and living without stairs attractive features.  I recently reread Wright's book "The Natural House" and my head is full of his design ideas.  

I live in N. GA and I am concerned about the resale potebtial of a modern design in a traditional marketplace.  Anyone with a counterpoint please feel free to respond.

CREATIVE1

The acceptance of alternative  architecture varies throughout the country.  I'd ask a couple of local realtors about the salability of the design you're considering.  I would think that the indoor/outdoor connection, open plan, and radiant flooring would appeal to lots of folks.  


Amanda_931

There's a Usonian house in Florence Alabama--The Rosenbaum house.  Notable for having been lived in by the original owners the longest of the Wright houses, and it had an addition designed by Wright.  It's restored and open to the public.

http://www.wrightinalabama.com/

A few years ago I went through it one grey January day, was completely won over by sitting by a fire in the living room looking out (in the early days you could have seen the river, now there are buildings and especially trees in the sight-line)  The lines in the concrete floor were continued by the lines in the concrete outside.  I just noticed that the current picture on the web site has what looks like the dining chairs that were designed by Wright.  When I went through the house they were replaced by Eames chairs--what the Rosenbaums used--the originals were reputedly so uncomfortable that they were given away.

I haven't done too much reading in this book, but it seems pretty nice, especially as a way of thinking about Wright's ideas in the 21st century.

http://www.amazon.com/Wright-Sized-Houses-Wright-Solutions-Making/dp/0810946262/sr=1-1/qid=1158244198/ref=sr_1_1/102-4565289-9806560?ie=UTF8&s=books

We may call these houses "modern."  But they're not remotely new.

I think it's possible that "modern" in the sense of "recent" is more likely to refer to kitchen design.  Or, for Pete's sake, McMansions.  (I'm not at all sure you could cook in the original kitchen in the Rosenbaum house)

By the way, flat (near-flat) roofs--especially living roofs with the vegetable garden on top like Glenn has--are not necessarily easier--or lighter--to build.