900 Sq. ft Earth Bermed Passive Solar Home in Upstate NY

Started by speedfunk, November 22, 2008, 11:50:08 PM

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MountainDon

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

drainl

Thanks don for the words of encourgement!

Were almost done with our current order of block (more to come).  Deb is over at the land now stacking the remaining block then I'm off stacking while she watches tuck.  This is what seems to work.  I feel like we are pro wresters in a tag team event.  One were done with all the blocks we will parge up to at least 3'.   Next up then is pouring concrete sonatube on the pier footers, where we will most likley use a couple oaks we have on the property to support ridge beam and get the pvc earthtubes intakes up to floor level THEN dirt backfill

Jeff


Dog

Looking REALLY good guys! The pics are awesome!  8)
The wilderness is a beautiful thing for the soul. Live free or die.


Bishopknight

Yes great job!

I noticed you're forming alot of the smaller concrete pieces yourself. Just fyi, I used a diamond blade on my 6 amp Black & Decker Rotary saw. It created a lot of dust but was very easy, safe and fast. I highly recommend it.

Also, i just bought 4 more bags of Quikrete bonding cement from Lowes for $16.23 per bag , then used a 10% off coupon. About 8 months the price for this stuff was $18 per bag, its come down a little. Conversely, Conproco makes a similar "Structured Skin" for $29 a bag, but I believe thats 80 lbs to Quikretes 50 lbs. However, Conproco is easier to apply. If you know a septic installer who can buy for you, they can usually get all products at 30% off list. Like well tiles, septic tanks, infiltrators, cement ect...


drainl

More block laying today and Jeff started to parge the walls with the surface bonding cement.  We've got all the lower windows placed now as well.



In this photo, the kitchen door is at the left.  Front door is front center.  Front left is an 8′ window , then two double hung windows in the front right.  One more double hung window is on the right wall.  Our woodstove will be to the right of the front door.





Jeffs parging work...



That's it for today!


speedfunk

ThX Dog and Squirl!

BK: 
Yeah we are forming quite a bit.  It's something we just ended up doing .  I originally had a circular saw masonary blade (not diamond) more like a corrugated material.  I use this when I NEEd to cut.  Sometimes i'm not there though and deb needs to do the fills of the voids left from block and she did not want to deal with the saw and the dust .   That's something that i really hated , inhaling all that  :-\ 

A good friend also told me about what you mentioned.  I'm def going to be getting it b/c in the end i'll need it anyway to cut squares in the block for the electric boxes.  He said what you did that it works  pretty awesome. 
Nice man... your good at digging out deals lol.  I'm very lazy when it comes to that ,  I hate going to lowes etc.  Deb on the otherhand loves home improvement stores and such.  Go figure? 

Dog

I relate to the dust/inhaling factor! I always wear a mask. I can't stand inhaling dust. It just seems like it's not a good idea.  :P

You guys are rockin' the project!

The earthbermed stuff is so interesting!

The wilderness is a beautiful thing for the soul. Live free or die.

John Raabe

Nice project Jeff!

I wouldn't expect much help for seasonal storage of solar heat into the soil under the house.

My experience with solar thermal mass storage is that you want it inside the insulation and exposed directly to the sun (such as a dark colored floor slab). Even then your ability to use that heat will depend more on your insulation strategy than any magic transfer with the soil. Only wet soils have decent conductivity and wet soils are guaranteed to be cold soils in your climate (mine too :D).

Now if you are in AZ or NM with lots of longer day winter sun and warmer soil temps you can do lots of impressive solar earth berms and tubes. But then solar there is very easy as the sun comes up again tomorrow morning ready to go to work for you. Unfortunately, it's not the same in the Northern climes like NY and WA.

If you already have those tubes in place they will likely work well for cooling in the summer time. My own earth tempering in my house works great for cooling - we are using it now.
None of us are as smart as all of us.


Redoverfarm

You can easily add Passive solar heating if the windows are to the south.   Lay a stone or cultured stone on a walls parallel to the window face instead of the convientional drywall.  Of course in the summer you would not really need it and a good set of blinds and curtains will keep the house from getting hot.  Just a thought.   

Bishopknight

Great job!

How did you like parging it on?

Wrist sore today?  ;D

speedfunk

#111
Thanks John,

Actually I am expecting seasonal storage and have a design I believe will reach this goal.  If it doesn't achieve the goal 100 percent I have some modifications in mind that I could add. I'm aware area's like ours are not typical in a setting for a home like this.  in fact I have not found an example of seasonal storage in our area.

The design is based mostly on Passive Annual Heat Storage design by John Hait.    The insulation layer will go out 25' horizontally in every direction from our home.  I've added an additional 5' to the 20' that hait used b/c I'm changing the way the heat is collected.  I've just recently decided to use 2 layers of bubble wrap tekfoil instead of 2" rigid polystrene.  I believe the it will provide a better thermal break on a uneven dirt surrounding. Instead of relying solely on south facing glass (of which we do have some, but not too much) I have in the plan external solar collectors OUTSIDE the house (see begging post for render of it)but connected ( no insulation break) to the same earth below the insulation and the house.  

I want to fully take advantage of ALL the summer sunshine we get.  Now if my solar collector is the same space i'm living in (read earthship or other common solar designs) I have to shed any heat in the summer that's above my comfort level.  So you then run into the standard issue of shading so that you don't overheat your living space.  Thats a lot of heat your wasting, prime summer heat.   By having external (outside the house) solar collectors ( just a series of insulated boxes protruding from the ground with glass on top of it, with insulated covers for winter)  I can now withstand and store tempatures to that similar to a solar oven, while keeping a comfortable interior house temp.   The solar oven I built i believe if I remember right got up to 160 degrees.  There's others out there that go to 300 or so.  

This coupled with some dense mass like your saying john can be set inside the solar collectors (ie water bottles) which would allow that 200 degrees or whatever it might be to moderated so that the dry earth, which has mass but like you said john has some resistanse as well  and  is slower to absorb and release the heat could then store and pack away that heat for when I need it come winter.  The system can be fine tuned in time with additional water bottles.  

I've also decided to use vertical glass instead of 40 degree tilt on the windows in the house which is going against the grain for full solar houses.  The reasons are  overheating, the possibility of leaks (it rains a lot in upstate ny esp this year) and the added complexity of building were the main factors. The floor will also be dark stained concrete.  There will be shades or (internal )storm windows lol,  that can be drawn over the inside of the windows.  This will create 8" of dead air space at every window in the winter.   The windows were also staggered so that they will cast light on different parts of the floor (mass) so as to allow the floor to soak up as much as possible with as little windows as possible and so that through out day different parts of the floor will be hit with the sun.

The earth tubes are really just to help moderate incoming temp and keep fresh air.  So many people now believe that they have to make a house air tight which is unhealthy.   In a conventional house where heat is store mostly in the air it's a bitch lol, you almost have to?  The mass here should allow me to swap out air for a better indoor environment without losing my heat.   There are 2 incoming 4" tubes and will be 2 tubes going out the back for exhaust with fans setup on them.   A great resource for earthtubes is the http://www.thenaturalhome.com/earthtube.htm.   He had some good tips on cleaning and maintenance.  I'm not sure about a few of the details but overall it's a great site and where I first found out about drystacking as well.

I hope it's fairly clear how I hope to achieve full solar heating.  Any questions feel free to as b/c the more I think about the design the better it will be. There is also going to be a wood stove in the house for at least the first 2 years while the earth below heats up ( it takes that long for that much mass,based on hait PAHS book).  

I'd to to hear more about your tubes john!  There's not much info on them in this big intraweb.

speedfunk

BK:  actually not bad so far :)  I'm like parging ... it's nice and quite .  Working with saws and hammers gets old for me anyway so I enjoy the contrast.   I see you still got the back of the wall yet lol.  Do you think you will have that parged by winter? 

I've just got done talking with TIm the excavator dude and he's stopping by sometime next week to fill in the floor so everything has to be done by then.  Nothing like a deadline to get ya moving.  To bad it's raining today :(

peace

HomeschoolMom

I have an earth bermed passive solar in my future.  I love the naturalhome.com website!  Depending on my budget, I might consider dry stack too.  I am watching you and BK closely ;)
Michelle
Homeschooling Mom to Two Boys
Married to Jason, Self Employed

Wanting an earth bermed hybrid timberframe...just need some inheritance  ;)  Will never have another mortgage again!


Bishopknight

#114
Thanks, I'm pretty frugal unless its for food or entertainment. As for the back wall, I'm hoping by next month I have the rest parged.

After that I need to waterproof everything. I've been doing research on products that will allow me to backfill with my native clay soil. Heres 2 places that carry the specific products I'd need. I called around and got prices.

Sterling Building Supply Prices ( Waltham, MA )

$128 -  CCW 702 primer, 5 gallons
$306 -  CCW MiraDRI 860, 600 sq ft (.51 sq/ft)
$534 -  Dow Blueboard Polystyrene, 600 sq ft (.89 sq/ft)
$348 -  CCW MiraDrain 6000, 600 sq ft (.58 sq/ft)
----------------------------------------
$1316

Kamco Building Supply ( Portland, ME )

$140 -  CCW 702 primer, 5 gallons
$360 -  CCW MiraDRI 860, 600 sq ft (.60 sq/ft)
$480 -  Dow Blueboard Polystyrene, 600 sq ft (.80 sq/ft)
$420 -  CCW MiraDrain 6200, 600 sq ft (.70 sq/ft)
----------------------------------------
$1400

Heres the technical data on the CCW 702 primer which is used in conjunction with CCW MiraDRI 860 bitumene sheet membrane.

QuoteCCW-702 PRIMER
CCW-702 is a quick drying, solvent based, high-tack primer specifically designed to promote maximum adhesion of
CCW Sheet Membrane Waterproofing products.
Apply by long nap roller or brush in an even film at 300 to 350 square feet per gallon. Allow Primer to dry for 1 hour
minimum at 75o F. Primer has a satisfactory cure when surface is tacky, but will not transfer when touched. Prime
only areas to be waterproofed the same day. Reprime if area becomes dirty or wet.

Dog


What you explained about the ventilation was helpful. I think that is a major consideration. Air quality matters. It seems like it depends on how far back the berm goes.
BK's home has windows on the both sides which seems good. Only one room w/o a window.
The wilderness is a beautiful thing for the soul. Live free or die.

drainl

I've mentioned the details of all the bigger purchases we've made in the last couple of months.  Luckily since the block order, we haven't had to buy too much and it's given us time to save up $ again.  We're trying to push off getting a loan for as long as possible.  Here are the current totals.

Electric               $1,513.80
Materials               $3,348.51
Miscellaneous     $720.14
Paid Workers       $30.00
Plumbing                  $487.29
Septic               $1,000.00
Site Work   $5,311.17
   
Total               $12,410.91

Our excavator guy is scheduled for next Friday.  That should give us plenty of time to get ready.  Then we'll probably have another block delivery scheduled for early the week of August 3rd.  A local building company is closing and having an auction this weekend, so maybe we'll find some deals there.

Bishopknight

Dog,

I actually put a basement sliding 2x1 window in the back bedroom so none of my rooms are without ventilation, unless you count the bathroom :)

Those earthtubes sounds very interesting. James Kachadorian recommends a slightly different approach ( in his book "Passive Solar House" ) where he lays cement blocks on their sides so you have a channel for air to circulate through and then each side is vented.  I considered it but felt it was too complex and might be over my head for a 1st home builder.

drainl

We had some success at the auction yesterday.  We got 8 Anderson basement windows (4-31"x18", 2-35"x23", 2-31"x14") for $35/window.  We priced them out $60+ each for no name brand, so we're pretty happy with the price.  We should be able to use 6- 7 of them and have someline who may buy the last one.  I'm bummed that I was too slow to bid on a lot of PVC, furring strips, and cedar shakes (for our 8'x8' cabin siding).  Darn fast auctioneers! 

Bishopknight

Wow nice scores Deb!  ;D

Want to hear the opposite end of a deal? Grace and I went to a beautiful waterfront wedding this weekend that cost in the ballpark of $35,000 for the pavilion, menu and open bar alone. Sadly, thats about what my house will cost to build.


speedfunk

Homeschool mom:  Cool I hope and I know BK does also, that people do watch and learn from our mistakes and triumphs.  The drystack is more labor intensive obviously.  It does have some advantages though. 

1.  running wiring/plumbing in the block cores with out the needed for sight to pour  in conduit.
2.  I feel it's more flexible then forms.  Maybe people with tons of form experience would differ on this opinion though.   I like the idea that I can think as I build and change things as we go up. 
3.  It's a hell of alot easier to drill through a block if you need to add something in the future then 8-10 inches of concrete
4.  Allows us to keep building on a budget where we would still be saving for a poured wall.

Drainl and I feel that it's a bit finicky though.  The blocks have small variations in them that you need to constantly keep and eye on and sometimes that can be a pain.  You have to let your self be a bit UN-anal lol.  Focusing instead of overalls and averages.
These reasons are why it's a good DIY building method IMHO  c*

Something I've thought about lately is the fibers in the cement and how long they will hold before the cement degrades them.  This could be easily remedied though when that eventually happens by adding another layer (depending on how you finish your interior)  ???  I know that certain types of surface bonding cement have different fiber types.  I did not really look into this though.

BK:

Good luck man!  I hope you can beat winter lol.  We did the parging on our firstday cottage in the winter and I'm sure you prefer to finish it before falls end.   

It is crazy what people spend for one freakin' day!   I hope you got your open bars worth!   We have a friend that just decided to buy a 4 thousand dollar trailer and put it on his land.  I'm so happy for them!  They had an offer that they backed out of that would have had them paying 30 years from now!  This options allows them debt free living while they slowly accumulate money and maybe eventually build. 

Update:  More parging lol

waggin

Quote from: Bishopknight on July 28, 2009, 01:04:25 PM
Wow nice scores Deb!  ;D

Want to hear the opposite end of a deal? Grace and I went to a beautiful waterfront wedding this weekend that cost in the ballpark of $35,000 for the pavilion, menu and open bar alone. Sadly, thats about what my house will cost to build.

Not disparaging the people whose wedding you attended, but odds are the house will last a lot longer too.
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. (Red Green)

Bishopknight

Waggin,

I actually called the place they had it at. I was floored at how expensive it was. This is the view we had exactly as shown on their website.
http://www.longwoodevents.com/Venues/BelleMer/Default.aspx

----------------------------

Definitely Jeff,

All very good points. The well installer had to drill through the block wall this weekend and he was glad it was only 2-3" to drill through instead of 12". As far as parging, I might hire a local kid to help me this weekend, especially if the weather is nice. I have 5 bags of SBC itching to go on the back wall :)

I'm also going to update pics tonight of my place. The well is finished. I'll go into more details on my thread.

John Raabe

Note: I have split off the discussions on earthtubes. Click here to read that thread:

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7457.0
None of us are as smart as all of us.

drainl

Thanks for creating an earthtubes thread John.  Seems like a hot topic with little information on the web, so it's good to make it stand out more.  I'm copying a couple updates from the other day back in that relate specifically to our house...

(Speekfunk)
The earth tubes with have an overall downward slope from the house.  Both in the front and the back.   The slope should be pretty substantial ,  maybe 20 degree's in the front and 15 in the back.  We will do the weep holes and the string so we can pull the cloth through just like natural home which seems like a very good idea.   We will also have fans setup to control the air.  Natural convection is supposed to work but it's the one part of the house that I'm making "Active".

There is little to no info on earth tubes that I've found so if you see something send it my way!!   I'm guessing on the amount of tubes also but I think it scales well lol.  we will see. 

One thing I didn't think made sense with natural homes way of running earthtubes is that they ran them right next to each other.   The PAHS book I read on them did not recommend that.   I've separated mine so we will see.  BTW if you do want more info on earthtubes, this is by the far the best book  I've found!   I cannot plug this enough, just a very unbiased, logically way of looking at passive heat storage.
http://www.earthshelters.com/PAHS_Improving_ch_1_intro.html


(Speekfunk)

I'd like elaborate on the goals of this setup for me.  B/c I think each of us has a different climate and needs for earthtubes.  First off I'm in cold upstate NY so to be honest cooling is not really that big of a deal.  I know the system will cool a bitin summer but I'm really not designing for that goal in y mind.  I'm also not expecting earthtubes to completely heat my house.  The mass around my house will moderate (heat/cool) our house and provide the storage of heat for the earthtubes to use to warm incoming air and retrieve some of that outgoing heat.  The intakes for me are just taking the chill out of the winter air in the most passive way I can, and keeping us happy and healthy, while also trying to recoup as much heat as  possible on way out.

Condensation: something that is usually brought up, but for me personally winter air tends to be dry and warming it up will not add any moisture (I BELIEVE!).  In the summer here in NY which can me humid  The reason to pitch the tubes downward makes sense also.  Why invite water (run off or condensation )to drain into your house.  So this is why I"m doing that.  This will also allow me to clean the tubes using alternative methods.  I could run a hose temporarily to them when I want to clean them and follow that with the rag on a string and a good chemical free cleaning that will dilute and drain any bad stuff that MIGHT grow in the tubes. 


I'm kind of stuck with 4"s though lol.  I'm ok with that though, it's what I decided on.  My thought is our house is not all that big and wouldn't need that much air exchange.  I never sat down and figured out "real" values though.  So it is what it is.


July 30 - August 3

It feels like we didn't get much done in July for various reasons, but I feel a little better when I look through our photos from the month.  Jeff finished up July getting the inside of the house parged so we could bring it up to floor level with dirt.  There's been a lot of rain this summer, so timing has been tough.  My main job is still stacking blocks, which were getting hard to lift onto the wall, so I'm happy the ground is higher now.

Here's our supervisor checking out our work from our lovely front stairs.



We got the two sonotubes filled with concrete for the posts.



Photos of the two earth tubes (which I know nothing about so I won't add to that conversation!)





All ready to go!  Jeff had to move a bunch of materials inside and outside the house to make room for Vinny and the excavator.



First he filled in the ditch for the electrical lines.



Then the inside of the house got filled.  I had fears of one of my walls getting knocked down, but I had nothing to worry about!





And then on to the biggest project - Jeff decided it'd be best to put in the two posts (aka trees) while we had the machinery.  They were successful as you can see.  We'll debark the trees and poly them eventually.  Until we get the roof on we'll need the extra bracing.  It'll be interesting to see what our inspector thinks of the trees.  They look impressive when you drive up to the house.  They're 2-3 feet taller than they need to be, so we'll trim them when we get to the roof.  You can also see we left area open in the bathroom for a crawlspace.



Total bill for the day was $708.  Now we need to place an order tomorrow for more block (6 pallets were thinking) and a pallet of SBC.  That and installing windows will keep us busy for awhile.  We really want to get the roof on before the first snowfall.  Last year we got 8″ mid October.  Fingers crossed!