using a generator for power tools - any issues?

Started by cbc58, March 29, 2017, 01:19:18 PM

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cbc58

wonder if there are any pitfalls to using power tools off a generator for an extended period.  potential build has no electricity.  tks.

MountainDon

If a noisy generator is used buy ear protection and use it. Hearing protection is also actually an excellent idea when using any tool like a circular saw, miter saw, etc. Also use hearing protection when using an air nailer. The strike noise as well as the exhaust impulse is loud enough to be harmful to hearing.I wish I had paid more attention to loud noises and ear protection back when I was younger. Now I need hearing aids to enjoy life in the everyday world. And now I have good quality hearing protection with me at all times. Good protection may be inconvenient but having to wear hearing aids is even more of an inconvenience as well as expensive.

The only generator / tool problems I ever had was trying to start some air compressors on too small a generator.

A good set of battery operated tools is a great boon. There are 12 volt chargers that can be used off the vehicle battery. When we built our cabin I used mainly battery tools and charged off the truck or the Quiet Honda generator. The EU2000i would power my table saw and pancake air compressor okay.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


ChugiakTinkerer

It works just fine as long as your generator can handle the surge of the tools motors and compressors.  I have an old air compressor that runs off AC.  I have used it at home for a couple decades.  According to the spec plate it will draw about 15 amps.  When I hooked it up to my 4 kw generator I had issues.  The generator labored so much it was dropping in output voltage.  My solution was to buy a new compressor, this time a small and quiet Rolair that can power a framing nailer.

Just make sure your generator is big enough or your tools low current draw and you'll be fine.  The cordless is a great solution but some things require more juice.  I use my generator to power a chop saw, a compressor, and a pair of chargers for the cordless tools.  If you haven't purchased a generator yet, give some thought to if you will need 220V.  Neither of my gennies can output 220 and that's fine for now, but I am sure some day I will want to have a decent welder on the property and will wish I had planned for that.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

NathanS

I did all my framing with a battery powered circular saw (milwaukee). It died while cutting rafters, but other brands may be worth a shot. I nailed everything by hand, which was an adventure, but next time I will probably go with a nail gun. Actually, hand nailing is not bad except for the awkward angles which come up more often than you'd think. Nailing studs to plate I can 1 or 2 shot a 16d now, but it's pretty much impossible to pound one between 16" OC joists or studs, more of a tappy tap tap. There are gas cartridge nail guns that seem interesting if you don't want to run a generator.

Adam Roby

I retrofitted my old power tools (where the batteries had gone bad) with wires and alligator clips to connect to a 12V car battery.  It's not as portable, and only 12V whereas the tools were 14V or 18V, but it works like a champ and seems stronger even.  I have yet to build anything substantial so I can't really comment more than that.


Scotdark

I haven't ever had a problem running any of my tools.....charged 18volt batteries no problem...ran table saw,skill saw,mitre saw....all no problem.....noise sucks...can't here the tunes

DaveOrr

I have 2 generators I use at my cabin.
For most work I use my Yamaha eu2000is.
When I need to use my air compressor I run a 3,500 Champion as the Yamaha doesn't have the juice to run it.
I can run my chop saw, table saw and circular saw off the little genny.
My cabin is pretty much 100% screwed together and was done using a 20 volt 1/4" impact driver.
I have 3 chargers and 4 batteries for it that are kept charged up using the Yammy too.  :)
Dave's Arctic Cabin: www.anglersparadise.ca

Dave Sparks

Quote from: cbc58 on March 29, 2017, 01:19:18 PM
wonder if there are any pitfalls to using power tools off a generator for an extended period.  potential build has no electricity.  tks.

I am not sure if you mean that there will be no grid electricity later after the build but if so I would wait as long as you can to getting an inverter power system going. The reason is so many contractor gen based power tools are so beat-up they can really screw your nice inverter power system. I have seen such bad power cords and insulation failures in the tools these guys "often" have. Arc welders Yuk, do not go there!

Using your own tools like the guys here is fine on your genny.
"we go where the power lines don't"

cbc58

Tks for the replies.  I have never used a generator before and was wondering if the output of electrical current they provide had any harmful effects on power tools.  My thought was that there must be "some" fluctuation of electrical supply off a generator vs. using a traditional outlet and I'd hate to damage tools because I didn't ask questions first.   The note on noise protection is good advice.  If I had money to burn I'd probably buy a cordless circular saw and a better drill. 


Dave Sparks

There definitely is a difference between a quality generator and one that is not. The ones the guys in this thread are talking about are quality gens and can run computers and advanced electronics. The Yamaha and the Honda are inverter models and are great.

I have always been very suspicious of the marketing of generators. They will say it has a Honda engine and the electronics and design on the generator has some unknown name. Costco, Home Depot, and others sell this gear. There is a reason that it is 1/3 the price of a Honda Generator.

If you are just running AC powered construction gear,  saws and big drills, almost any generator (in good condition) will work.
"we go where the power lines don't"

flyingvan

  I believe the non inverter generators are better for running power tools, and the inverters are better for electronics.  Dave I'm sure you'd know more about this than me, but I understand the inverter generators have smaller flywheels, so they can quickly adjust to minor voltage changes and make the power cleaner.  The more classic non inverter generators have bigger, heavier flywheels, giving you a lot more surge capability.  In a way, you're storing more kinetic energy in the generator which you can transfer to your chop saw on start up.  Power isn't as clean, but at least it's available.
   I'm with you on the marketing.  My 5200 watt generator is breaker protected by two 20 amp breakers, one on each leg of the 240v.  You're not going to get more than 4800 watts.....They sent me 30s (too big.  Won't protect the generator) so I bought 25s and installed them myself
Find what you love and let it kill you.

glenn kangiser

My heavy duty Lincoln Welder 10000 watt generator will start my 7 hp Iron Worker, however my Miller 10000 watt welder generator in a smaller type welder will not, so even though both are good quality, not all generators are the same performance wise even with the same ratings.   :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Dave Sparks

Yes sir Glen!  The spec that gives it away is the Power Factor and that is in the electronics and is almost never listed with generators.
Quality is basically conformance to requirements, or so I have been told. :P

The Honda EU 7000i would not have the problem flyingvan and is not in the same range as the smaller Inverter units in this thread. Not cheap but i have a few Northern clients that are on their second decade with it's brother the 6500i . They run everything in a large offgrid home, except Glens Iron worker....

Kind of an apples/oranges thing to compare a 2KW peak genny with a 5KW. The smaller Honda/ Yammies do have a power save switch that can help
with difficult loads when not selected.

I learned most of this from working/installing Marine Generators and the separating of cash from the owner ;)
"we go where the power lines don't"

ChugiakTinkerer

I have a Westinghouse inverter generator, I think the model is the 2200iXLT.  The XLT stands for eXtra Low Tone, which is the quiet version.  It's not quite as quiet as a Honda but comes pretty close.  The local industrial hardware supplier started carrying these because they can't get Honda machines serviced in Alaska.  I've only had it for 8 months so can't say how it does long term, but it starts up first pull and will power my chop saw just fine.  Might be worth reading the reviews...

https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-WH2200iXLT-Portable-Inverter-Generator/dp/B00NHACROW
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story


flyingvan

    Dave---that makes sense.  If the running capacity is higher than the spike you get when powering up a big electric motor, it wouldn't matter if it's an inverter or not.  My generator counselor had a similar background as you (ran the power grid at San Clemente Island for the Navy).  When I was planning my backup generator system he advised me to get the lowest output generator I could find that still kicked out 240 volts. 
     Planning for the zombie apocalypse, I wanted to run as long as possible off the big propane tank.  (No zombies yet but multiple extended power outages since we've lived here) I'd like to know your opinion of his approach---since most the time the house is only consuming a few hundred watts, if you have a 5200 watt generator making those watts instead of a 10,000 watt generator, you are using less fuel for the same output.  Also the bigger generators don't like making that small amount of power (have pondered unsuccessfully what part of a big generator is hurt by very low power production but took his word for it)
Find what you love and let it kill you.

glenn kangiser

Hey Dave, I found one of those money separating models but apparently did something wrong. It separated my money from me.  Fortunately I have a good wife and in fact she will be welding with it.  Yes, another Miller Welder generator 325Amp  with EFI and Excel Power.  Both extra options that brings the price up to $6700+ in California with tax. 

The reason I mention this is that if you need to weld, most welders have generators too.  This one has 12000 watts peak and 10500 full time at 120/240 volts.  It also has the Excel power option that gives 2400 watts sine wave power at idle speed.  With the electronic fuel injection and speed controlling of power even welding to low rpms only as needed, it can save 42% of it's fuel.

I also use the welding leads to directly charge my battery for my solar power when there is not enough solar.  Don't try this at home kids, unless you understand how to keep from killing yourself or blowing the battery up in your face.  I use constant current -variable voltage that comes down depending on load (discharge state of the battery).  I generally limit it to about 270 amps for about 1/2 hour.  :)  Note that I am still using the 1500 lb multi 2v cell battery (on my 24v inverter system) that my brother salvaged from the side of the road several years ago.  It is working great yet. 

Anyway.... just thoughts on generator alternatives.  :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Dave Sparks

Big fan of the navy! I would get in trouble from my Dad from saying I am from three generations of Navy as his Dad was Italian Navy....

I really wish someone would make a really quiet generator that could output 2 or 3KW like a Honda, Generac, Yamy or westinghouse but at 240vac/120.

I have to be careful here Glen as most of my solar is from folks who do not want a generator. It is not that hard but...(warning Will R.- money separating scheme to follow)

I think I would modify a 2KW inverter genny to run on propane and have a big gen for everything else if I did not want solar and had a big propane tank.
The other route is a small electric inverter/battery battery and then use the big guy for a party or doing laundry and getting the battery full 2 hours a day or so.

There are more strategies also of course. Oh my, it is almost happy hour.  c*



"we go where the power lines don't"

glenn kangiser

Every hour I'm breathing is happy hour Dave.  :)

We try to use our solar like we are normal people, not paying too much attention to power wasting yet being a bit thrifty, so some type of key start generator is what I like.  That is why I am using the 500 amp Lincoln welder with the Deutz diesel as my generator.  It does sound rather like a D6 Caterpillar though....even with the extra Chevy muffler I threw on the exhaust pipe.

The Miller welder claims Sine Wave power prevents any issues with running tools so apparently some generators can cause some tool issues though as you say, the quality inverter models shouldn't have issues.  :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Dave Sparks

We both agree that it is almost 5 somewhere!
The inverter quality is determined by the number of steps that change the DC into the sine wave. This is true for inverter generators and electronic inverters.

Definitely the name brands (Outback and Schneider) and Honda and Yamaha are very good and I have seen them run just about anything within their ratings for power and surge ability.

At our home we are very normal with power and have the use it or lose it mentality. We change that with bad solar weather and can live easily on 2.5KWH
running a 22 cubic foot Maytag, a 60" Vizio, wifi, and a medium chest freezer, and lights.

When it is good, about 350 days a year here, we can run a mini-split heat-pump for cooling/heating, hot tub, clean clothing, and serious pumping of water and rack-up over 40KWH per day easily. Even an electric chainsaw :)

One of the good things for you when that SW lets go is the replacement will get you 240vac also along with much better data and the web app Insight,  helping with more voices  ::)  Are these voices during the day or just at night ???
"we go where the power lines don't"

glenn kangiser

OHHH, No... I'm running piggy backed Sine Wave Trace 4024's (with sync cable) getting 120 and 240, pumping about 600 gallons of water a day from a maximum pumping depth of 320' - est average 240' with a 240v 1.5 hp standard submersible well pump.  We also run 2 small chest freezers, a refrigerator , 46" flatscreen TV, computers, printers, Microwave, convection oven, toaster, wire feed welder, DSL 24hrs per day, house phones, cell phones and tablet, standard Kirkland large capacity washer and large capacity Maytag Neptune gas drier. sompact cfl's and some LEDs -going to more LEDs.

I started out with a square wave inverter but had a lot of trouble with my pump sounding like a rock crusher, running a step up transformer and not having enough power left to run the house when pumping.  I know I should use a Grundfos SQ Flex pump but the other has been working this way for 15 years.  I don't want to fix it because it isn't broke...yet.  I started out the hard way. [ouch]

The voices.... totally day and night... [deadhorse]

This morning I jumped out of bed waking up from a sound dreamy sleep (OK, so it was brunch time...don't get technical with me) because they told me that I would likely have to install the 1600lb 10"x10"x35' steel columns temporarily then set them down again to drill the holes thereby increasing the hours for my estimate.  Sometimes they help me.   :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Dave Sparks

Trace was bought by xantrex who was bought by Schneider. Your best bet is to buy used spares as even the xantrex SW's are out of support and the few guys left repairing them are cannibalizing for parts. I do keep an SW4024 here as a spare for a few clients. When they need it, we go back to the story of separating money story....You can have it for some heavy equipment work....

The thing you are missing is for all your loads is the data. Not a big deal for someone like you but it is all integrated now into the inverter and very simple to know your KWH numbers and alot more. It helps me alot with newbies and it helps also troubleshooting a remote system on the Web or just someone calling and saying Help!

Nice on your job! I think I confused you with whitlock on the 240VAC.

I have got to get outside and see if the new cat is still here. He is a true Mariposan and sleeps up in the Oak trees. Great hunter ! 2 ground squirrels and gopher last week.
Question time is it any easier to place an image on this site? Here goes my try.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOgnmWeNVSyRaxa_K8_EBtE6L5rOuvpNgiU1ATXyTlrJbmVEfZp00mNowopQbi0Hw/photo/AF1QipN1R-2MwZW5Dz7_hi8e1Q66QSYgqgp1e7FUoP2-?key=Y0dDeTlVbmV5ZmhJV3B6Z3ZKNjZ6ZmU5WnhCUkV3
"we go where the power lines don't"

MountainDon

#21
On your photos.google page, right click on the image you want to post, then select copy image address

Next in the forum, place the cursor where you want the image to go, and click on the Insert Image icon above the text field. Then paste the copied image address in between the img tags.

VoilĂ !

It's just the way Google does their end


Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Dave Sparks

#22
Thank-you Don!  How are you guy's doing? If this works Spring is here!
"we go where the power lines don't"

firefox

Just curios, has anyone tried to make a light weight oversize box to put over their
generator that has sound baffles to deaden the sound? Not sure if it is a good idea or not,
Bruce
Bruce & Robbie
MVPA 23824

Dave Sparks

There are tons of u-tubes on this. From the solar picture a post or two back you can see I do not have a generator!  8)
"we go where the power lines don't"