finally, a quote on dropping power

Started by tesa, January 22, 2009, 12:41:03 PM

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tesa

well, after a week of waiting, here is the dirt

$200 engineers fee (non refundable)
$5768 total for dropping power
$ ? cost for survey of the two properties next to mine
$ ? cost to clear the right of way
$75 membership fee
$175 connect fee
$280 deposit (based on our credit)

that bid also doesn't include the temp. pole we would install next to the RV, and of course, the cost of the power
we use every month

solar power is lookin' better and better

not that we'd spend much less than that

but i'm all for jumpin' off-grid

and the idea of makin' it easier on the folks who are just waitin' for power to get down that road and start buyin' up
the other lots

off-grid it is

i'm glad that decission is over

now, i just need to decide on which plans to buy

tesa
"building a house requires thousands of decisions based on a million bits of information"-charlie wing

cabinfever

So finding out how much I'm likely to pay to get power to my cabin is something on my list. This seems really high - where are you and why so much? Are you a long way from the closest service lines?


tesa

the property is in todd mission, a wee town just north of magnolia texas

the co. is mid-south synergy

the majority of the cost looks like a transformer, which was about 1500

then labor was like 2800

and materials were the rest

to survey our lot alone was almost 800, i can only imagine how much it will cost to survey the other
two lots

they insist they must have it surveyed, so they know where to put the poles

and clearing of 500 feet of right of way, i can't even guess, since we've done some of our own clearing, and plan
to clear the rest by ourselves also, i don't even know who much a company would charge us to clear that

not sure about that meter pole thingy, i hear you can get them at hardware stores, and i think i've seen them, but
not sure how much that might cost

plus all the "extras"

and the funny thing is, we're only like 350 feet from the nearest pole, but they said with all the forest between us, it must
be cleared

and aparently they want to put a pole on each lot prior to ours, which is actually three, ours, and then the two other lots

i did ask them about "stretching" the distance between poles, but they said it wasn't safe, nor their co. policy

whatever

so thats three poles, plus the transformer, etc. etc.

they said they would finance 1/2 for 12 months, interest free, which sound ok, i guess

but i think we've decided to go off-grid

we think its the right time, and what we've always wanted to do anyway, so here we go

tesa
"building a house requires thousands of decisions based on a million bits of information"-charlie wing

cabinfever

I've got a right-of-way across my property already for the neighbor's power feed, and I'm guessing my cabin location is probably about 200 feet from that line. I've also got land that would need to be cleared across that 200'. Just one more expense to call about, I suppose.

Everything seems to cost twice as much as you expect, and takes 3 times as long.

MountainDon

Different places, different companies, different terrain = different prices.

How about $55K for a mile. Mountain slopes, rocky ground and must be an underground line and the National Forest land left the way it was.

Here in the mountains of NM, if you are the one having that initial line installed you pay the full cost. However, after that if a neighboring lot wants power you get money back. The installed 'master' pole/terminal transformer can service 4 lots. So if the cost to the pole would be $50K I would pay that.

Then the first neighbor would pay the company 25% of that and I would get that from the power company. That neighbor installation would also have a pole/meter, wire, etc installed on the lot. They would pay that to the power company and of course I would see none of that.

So I think that the electrical cost might not be all that bad. If power to our property would have cost what they've told you I would have had to think long and hard about what to do. Not sure I would have gone PV power.   ???
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


diyfrank

Quote from: cabinfever on January 22, 2009, 07:25:26 PM
everything seems to cost twice as much as you expect, and takes 3 times as long.

Thats not a bad deal if it takes 3 times longer but only twice the cost. d*

Home is where you make it

JRR

A diesel generator, for start-up, would be awfully nice to have as you wait for someone else to make a move ... especially if it is also a welder.  Lower initial cost ... will be there for you for years to come.
.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/thomsen28.html

diyfrank

tesa,

They sure know how to stick it to ya.

I think I would be going solar for sure.
Home is where you make it

MountainDon

Your next step should be to sit down and make a list of all the power using devices you need and want with the power consumption of them all. Then the number of hours of use, daily or weekly. Be honest with yourselves. Then add at least 25% for future expansion of needs. Of course you may have superb discipline and a very simple approach to electrical powered devices. If so your needs will not be so great as some, nor will they be likely to expand much. Don't forget the well pump if there's to be a well.

From that data use one of the solar estimating programs to get some idea of what quantity of batteries you will require. The ideal is to aim for three days of power storage and to not run the batteries to less than 50% charge (only using 25% off them is better. Longer battery life.)

Then the number of PV panels or a combination of suna dnwind has to be calculated.

Then you cost out the investment in alternate energy equipment and see what's a better deal.

Also remember most batteries you are likely to use require some maintenance. They do not like being ignored in the fashion that most of us ignore the batteries in our motor vehicles.

All of the above is of course simply my opinion.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Native_NM

Another thought:  contact the other land owners and see if they will split the cost with you.  If you each pay 1/4, then you might find it only costs you $2500 each or so (based on the additional variable cost for each lot).  They might be willing to pay as it makes their lots more attractive to them or potential buyers.  We did that with our well share before we even built our house.
New Mexico.  Better than regular Mexico.

tesa

we've already made a list of all our needs, from how many lights, to what the tv pulls.

funny about that, today i used my crockpot, and i was SHOCKED to read how many watts that
thing draws

crap

230 watts!!

thats gotta go

i'm aware i'll have to give up the microwave/toaster/blender
i don't own a blow-dryer, or anything like that

i'm ready

i'm not kidding myself that going solar will be hard, but i'm ready

about 6 months back, we bought a new computer, and got a laptop, cause we heard they were better for solar

the fridge draws 14 watts d/c, it runs on a 10 hour cycle

the furnace draws 91 watts, a biggie, but we do plan to have a generator, and we're lucky to live in south texas, so
our winters aren't too bad

the tv draws something like 21, maby, i can't remember, and the list is at husbands office

we're trying very hard to rethink our electrical needs

hopefully we're on the right track

oh, and my sewing maching, i can't seem to find out about that, i guesss i need to look in the owners manual

tesa
"building a house requires thousands of decisions based on a million bits of information"-charlie wing

MountainDon

Quote from: tesa on January 25, 2009, 10:17:47 PM
we've already made a list of all our needs, from how many lights, to what the tv pulls.


Good, you are on your way!!   :)

Regarding the sewing machine, is it an electronic one? Many of those don't work on square wave inverters; my wife's doesn't.

And microwaves are okay depending on your battery bank and how much use it gets. And some of those don't like square wave.

A handy tool for getting real world power use is the Kill-A-Watt. Do a google or look on amazon.com. Many things actually use less than the name plate rating.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

brian_nj

but at the same time it is often the phantom loads that are the real drain on a system. We had a partial off grid home for 5 years when we lived in NJ and there were a lot of things we did not account for. Anything with a clock is always drawing power, modern TVs and DVD players draw a lot of power when off, even the coffee maker timer drew a bit. This all added up and used a lot of power we did not initially plan on.

This is why I dont like the kil-a-watt it only tells you what the item you have plugged into it is drawing, what I recommend is turning everything off in the room and using an amp probe at the main electrical box and reading the draw on the individual circuits, this will give you a better idea of what is going to be drawn even when you think things are off.

For example the furnace may draw 97 watts running but it still draws something when it is not to allow the control circuit to function. It may be only 5 watts but have that happen a couple times and it is real easy to under size a system.

Brian
Our web site http://www.goldate.us/
Our Blog http://www.goldate.us/blog/

If more people took personal responsibility for themselves this country would not be in the mess it is.

zion-diy

tesa, avoid electric coffee makers. most pull 1100-1200 watts.
Just a 50-ish chic an a gimp,building thier own house,no plans,just--work,work,work,what a pair :}


CREATIVE1

I would welcome what you're paying to put in power.  Solar doesn't work well in our area in winter, but if this was going to be a vacation cabin, I would go minimal solar, propane, generator. 

Here's what we're looking at:

$22,000 paid up front for 1/2 mile, $8,800 for trenching 2,900 feet three feet deep and regraveling our private 1/4 mile road.  I'm trying to find out if we can buy the vaults and conduit ourselves to save some money.  They said they need to install the transformer, run the wire in the conduit, and do the connections in the vaults (five of them).  It has to be underground.

We do get a partial payback on the main road, a little more than half the distance, if someone else hooks up.  But there is a time constraint on that, depending on the total cost of the hookup--a couple of years, I think.  So the next person on my line in five years gets it for free?  Ouch.  Oh, and we have the singular honor of paying more to hook up than anyone in our county, ever. :o :o

I did get an estimate for a professional solar setup, $35,000.  I could do it for less, and get some rebates, but since power is super cheap in our area and the electric company offers some rebates for appliances and some other incentives, I think the cost/convenience factor makes it worthwhile.  I will be running an accounting business out of the home, and need to have some trenching done for phone and cable anyway.  But again, ouch!

MountainDon

Quote from: brian_nj on January 26, 2009, 07:53:00 AM
often the phantom loads that are the real drain on a system.

Excellent point that is often forgotten. Just sitting here in the living room I can see 6 items that draw those tiny little amounts. There are at least 8 more in the house and I know there are a couple more in the garage. That's why in the cabin electrical system I incorporated several switched outlets; microwave, TV, audio equipment, and a couple for lights, especially the exterior ones or as yet unused. The switches have a low power pilot light that is on only when power is supplied to the outlet.

Good idea on the panel amp probe as long as folks are careful.  :o
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

brian_nj

I like the multiple switched outlet idea I am going to incorporate that into our design, where we are building we do not have as much worry with the generation of power since we are doing wind and hydro which for the most part will be available 24 hrs a day to us for generation. But cutting those loads makes a huge difference, we managed to get our last home mostly off grid (central air was on grid)  but we were at about 2000 watts of panels to do so.

Another trick for those that are doing a grid tied system is to leave the exterior lights on the main power grid this way they go off when utility power is interupted, we had neighbors show up during a blackout wanting to visit since we had power, I had dark curtains that kept the light from inside from shining out and just about drove myself nuts trying to figure out how they knew till I tripped the motion sensor for one of my outdoor flood lights DUH  d* d* d* Learned after that and they got rewired, I dont mind helping a neighbor out but I also dont like giving away that I am prepped for such things and they are not.
Our web site http://www.goldate.us/
Our Blog http://www.goldate.us/blog/

If more people took personal responsibility for themselves this country would not be in the mess it is.

bayview

tesa: 
   Solar with a generator backup to keep batteries topped off . . .

   I was fortunate that I had a power lines both to the south and to the west of my property. . .   I was on the edge of two power companies. 

   I preferred the power pole on the west side of my property, since it was a local coop.  They insisted I have a temporary pole until I finished my residence.  They would charge for hookup to the temp. line and then another charge when the permanent pole was installed.   I visited their office personally.  Very disorganized, poor employee attitude, etc.  ("If I didn't like it, go somewhere else")

   Well, I did . . .

   I then contacted the other electric company on the south side of my property . . .   A representative actually came out to my property.  Suggested ways to save money.  Allowed me to install a permanent pole before any construction was started.  They did not charge to run the line overhead from their pole to mine.  It was a pleasant experience!  Their rates are actually lower than the coop.  I installed a GFI at the pole and was able to run extension cords to my projects.

   My total cost for the utility pole ( prewired with box and weatherhead)  was $422.12.  A local man drilled and set the 20' pole to a 5' depth for $100.00.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

tesa

man,i wish our quote was that small

we've got a rep. from a solar company in tomball commin' out to the RV on friday
to work up a quote on a PV system

i'm so confussed about that

my head is so full of stuff right now, i can't even begin to hope i could design a system
without pro help

i'm doin' good to get the culverts delivered

LOL

i guess i'm learning my limits, and trying to keep my projects on time/under budget

am i a general contractor?

like i need another hat

mother/teacher/taxi service/housecleaner/cook/seamstress/washer woman/general contractor

too many hats

hahaha

tesa
"building a house requires thousands of decisions based on a million bits of information"-charlie wing

MountainDon

We will all be waiting to hear what the solar guy thinks you need.  :)
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.