Texas 20 x 42 1-1/2 story

Started by smcdaniel345, March 30, 2009, 07:51:58 PM

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Abbynrml

That was one of my greatest concerns. I did not want the wood to get wet even once.
So I decided on a pole frame or post and beam frame type. I now have the roof on and the materials never got wet. So now I can do the walls and floors all under a protected roof. Although your home is much larger than my shed, the same ideas would apply. If interested, my project is at
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6162.0

John Raabe

The main part of exposed framing that will deteriorate with water cycles is the subfloor. Standard OSB can puff up at the edges. Exterior rated plywood or Avantech OSB subflooring are a better choice. Some of the builders reporting here have used this material in some pretty nasty climates.
None of us are as smart as all of us.


MountainDon

I never mentioned anything about the subfloor because it was already down.

Maybe I should repeat briefly some thoughts on that for the benefit of others. The Advantec John mentioned is a superior type of OSB. It is highly water resistant, but not available everywhere.

Exterior grade plywood T&G subflooring can take some water exposure, as a rule. Ordinary OSB T&G does not like water exposure much at all.


My personal experience with OSB subflooring was poor, but not a disaster. The rain water caused some surface strands to become detached in several places. The edges stood up quite well for the most part, however that may be partly due to at least one of us being on site constantly. We were able to sweep the floor clear of water after every afternoon rainfall. Water puddles seldom sat for more than a couple hours tops. It rained every afternoon beginning the day before the sub floor was installed for a couple weeks straight.

You do not need to worry so much about short term exposure to rain and sun with the framing lumber. The winds may be another matter. I kept the supply pile dry by double tarping it. I never had any problems develop in the framing. Even the vertical OSB wall sheathing never showed any deterioration. The water runs of the walls and roof sheathing, but sits in puddles on the floor. Big difference.

Tarping the floor isn't worth the effort, IMO. We tried that and found water always makes its way through the smallest pinholes or whatever. Once under the tarp, the water will stay there until the flooring absorbs it. We have at least one member who had to rip out all the OSB subfloor material and replace it. He had it tarped over a winter.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Redoverfarm

As others have mentioned the killer for OSB is standing water on a horizontal surface.  It will act as a sponge.  Not a major factor on verticle siding in the summer.  Winter time when the snow would accumulate on the wall tops might be a different story.  My major push would be to raise the wall and put a roof over it first. Even 30# felt with button nails or purlin strips should suffice in the short term.  Then once it will shed water then you can concentrate on the 2nd story floor.  Rather than make the cut outs for the doors and windows you can build the walls and leave them completely covered with sheeting and later come back and cut out the sheeting to install them.  That way there will be no horizontal rain to enter through the openings onto the plywood. 

I personally used Advantex because I knew that mine would be exposed for a considerable amount of time. 3/4" T&G Ply will shed some on the short term but shouldn't be left very long.  If you are using metal for the roof you can makeshift a false roof above the floor and utilize the metal sheets to shed the water by elivating one side 6-12" pitching the water off until you can get started on the walls and roof.

smcdaniel345

Electrical update: Husband (Victor) drove by the property on his way home this afternoon.  The electrical company has done their thing!  They took down the pole past where we are building and took the lines back.  It's official!  We don't have to move the house!  They also put in a breaker box and weatherhead and whatever else is needed for us to hook up.

This weekend we hope to frame 4 outside walls, but it's supposed to rain.  So we will see.


Don_P

Back in the last century, before advantech, we used mismixed oil based paints on plywood subfloors with good results.

smcdaniel345

Mountain Don:  I was re-reviewing the building science page for hot humid climates.   ???  Can you tell me - when they recommend using the foam insulation boards, are they still using batt insulation?  Or are they just using the foam board?  I was thinking we would do both because that would boost the insulation levels just that much more. 

We are supposed to go this weekend to start framing the walls.  But it's supposed to rain :-\ so we are having a hard time deciding if we should proceed or wait til next weekend.  Guess we will see.

And what is the difference between PEX and old fashioned PVC?  My husband is worried about using PEX because he hasn't worked with it before.  Based on what I have seen, it doesn't look hard, in fact it looks like it might be easier.  Any thoughts?

MountainDon

On those two designs they have not used any insulation in the framed walls. It's been a while since I read them but I believe the reason they do not use anything in the walls is to eliminate material that could/will accumulate moisture from the high humidity levels. I believe they seal and use the inside face of the foam panels as the vapor barrier. Like I said I'm not certain on that, but that's what I recall.

All your husband will have to do to work with PEX is buy a tool to install the fittings. pexsupply.com has three different systems, tools and all parts. They all work, although theoretically the Wirsbo-Uponer system has advantages. However there are 1000's of the others in service. Following directions is key with all. FWIW, I have the stainless steel band system, Glenn has Wirsbo and NM_Shooter has the copper band system. Actually I have some copper band stuff in my house because I forgot to bring my tool out of the mountains; I borrowed Shooter's tool for a minor repair/change. The plumber who did my re-pipe used the Wirsbo/Uponer. I think that may indicate some pro's consider it the best. I think it may be best, but didn't want to spring for the more expensive tool. However, if you consider the savings by doing it yourself instead of contracting it out, you could easily fit the Wirsbo tool into the budget. Perhaps, maybe.  ;D

Differences?

PVC comes in 10 or 20 foot lengths. It is rigid, cannot bend around corners. You have to glue each fitting; that's slower and messier.

REX comes in 100 and 300 foot rolls, even longer. It is hard walled but flexible to a point. You need a special tool to crimp the fittings. No couplers needed to run a long line, unlike PVC.

PVC can not be used for hot water, for that you's use CPVC. PEX is okay for hot. You can get PEX in white, blue and red. Very patriotic stuff.   ;D  You can use red for hot and blue for cold to assist in differentiating. Not a big deal in my book, but cool.

PEX installs much quicker. That's pretty much the main points.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

Another PEX plus is there are easy to use distribution manifolds available. These can have a shut off for each line to bathrooms, laundry, etc. That makes it very easy down the road to shut off the line to a shower, for example, without the need to shut down the entire house.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


smcdaniel345


smcdaniel345

Well - it's official - no walls this weekend.  :( Too much rain.  But we are going to go ahead and place the order so we can't spend the funds elsewhere.  Just set a delivery date of May 2.  Then we will go in and place the next order and hopefully have them all delivered at the same time.  Save on one delivery fee at least.

And I am going to go pick out the doors that I want.  I haven't been able to decide and that needs to be done before we start framing.

smcdaniel345

We picked out the doors!!  And ordered the wood for the walls.  And after all that planning, it quit raining around noon and we could have worked! d*  Oh well.  In 2 weeks we will order all the rest of the wood for the roof and the loft floor and hopefully the sheathing.  And it's my daughter's birthday, so we have lots of family members coming in also (reckon I can get them to work  ;D )  Anyway - hoping to be somewhat dried-in in 2 weeks.

smcdaniel345

Ordered the rest of the wood for the interior walls and the floor joists for the upstairs loft.  Weather has changed to be cloudy with only a 20% chance of rain.  Looks like we should have lots of pictures after this weekend! 


smcdaniel345

Got the walls up!!!!!  We had several friends show up that helped out.  Of course, everybody knew a better way to do it, which led to some fustrations.  But overall it was a good weekend.  And my 9 year old daughter, Shyanne, helped move boards and actually did a lot of work for a still kinda little (gees, is she really that old now?) girl.

Anyway, back to the walls.  Wow they are tall.  We did 12 foot walls to allow for a kneewall upstairs. 







Also got all the bottom interior walls and the loft floor joists done. 







I am so sore.

And we still have enough wood left over to frame the upstairs.  So now all we need are the rafters and the ridge board and then we are on to sheathing and housewrap and insulation and ..... and .... and .....



shmily524

Awesome! Thanks for sharing the pics!

I can't wait to get started on mine...

smcdaniel345

Question for the more experienced ones here - what's the best way to raise the roof?  The front and side walls are 12 foot tall.  The back wall is 8 foot.  I want a 12/12 pitch. 

Thanks.

smcdaniel345


phalynx

We were able to raise our roof easier because we didn't use osb for decking on the roof.  We used purlins and tar paper.  We would put a strip of tar paper down the top to bottom of the roof and then hoist up a single sheet of tin using a pair of vice grips with the tension screw replaced with an eye-bolt.  It allowed us to tie a rope to it and pull each sheet up.  We would then secure the tin to the purlins and repeat.  If you are doing osb decking, you may end up doing what prohomesteader did.  He tied a rope to his truck, threw it over the house and pulled the sheet up to the top.

considerations

Woohoo! Somebody's on a roll! 

smcdaniel345

Phalynx - I was refering to the rafters themselves, not worried yet about the stuff on top of the rafters.  I am trying to invision how to hold up the ridge board and then place the rafters.  The front half has an open cathedral ceiling and it ends up being 22 foot tall.  The back half I'm not so jittery about.  But that front half scares the bejesus out of me. :o


phalynx

The ridgeboard can be held up with tall stilts.  I built a couple that supported it until a few rafters were up.  You could put a few nails on either side of each rafter and pull that end up and over the ridgeboard.  I hope you have a really tall ladder.  It was one of the most scariest parts for me.  Someone must hold the ladder solid and always watch for a falling board.  Take your time, and you will get it done. 


Don_P


Hopefully this is clear enough to show what we call yokes, the stilts to hold the ridge. I make them 3 ply, a center of the correct height to support the ridge and a longer side on each side.Thay are plumbed, well braced, and nailed to the ridge. some diagonal braces across the inside of the rafters as you go keep the whole mess from toppling as it gets top heavy. We start from the loft end where it can usually be done from stepladders. I start with a pair of yokes and add another at the end of each new section of ridge. You can build temporary walls and deck them pretty quickly to get you within stepladder height if you don't have access to masons scaffold.

I wouldn't put a roof on that without a good bit more bracing. We stringline the walls and brace everything solid in both directions, diagonally along unsheathed walls as well as in and out. When your feet leave the ground its time to slow down and think safe.

smcdaniel345

Thanks for the responses - makes it look/sound easier than I have been envisioning.  And we plan to put up about 4 cross braces to hold the width rigid and the upstairs flooring for a safe walking surface.  And there has been talk of builing a cat walk of sorts (like in the Alaska cabin) for the cathedral part.

One more question - the length is 42 foot (plus 1 foot overhangs on each end for 44 total).  What length ridge boards would you suggest.  I thought 2 of equal length.  My brother in law has this thing about it needing support and wants to do the cathedral from the front all the way so it rests on the upstairs walls, about 26 foot or so.  And then a shorter one for the remainder that's over the wall. 

phalynx

I think John should/would be the best to answer this.  You might post it on the plans questions if he doesn't make it to your thread soon.  I don't think it would be a problem unless you are not going to have a cross-tie between the rafters in the cathedral section.  Then I think some additional support may be needed.  I would think that I would want it to be a continuous piece over the cathedral section.

smcdaniel345

A little bit more done.

The center wall upstairs


The ridge board


Antoher view - the boards across the top are temporary to install the rafters and such for the cathedral ceiling