Author Topic: 24x24 in Western New Mexico  (Read 134177 times)

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Offline hpinson

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Re: 20x36 Dogtrot in Western New Mexico
« Reply #150 on: January 04, 2014, 06:59:16 PM »
They are stressed in an odd way. There was a very bad drought for about two years, followed by a very intense monsoon. Prior to the monsoon, all of the Junipers looked stressed. After the rains (100 year?) everything looked better, but the bigger trees, those with the Mistletoe balls, died, very quickly, or are in the process of dying. Now it seems to be drought conditions again, with very little snow-cover.

Is there anything to be done? We are losing some of our nicest and oldest trees..

Offline MountainDon

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Re: 20x36 Dogtrot in Western New Mexico
« Reply #151 on: January 04, 2014, 07:03:11 PM »
Mistletoe... we had it on some of the ponderosa pines on our property. It can kill the trees according to the state forester. It also spreads. We had way too many trees when we bought the land. We have fewer trees now, but still too many according to state forestry. But as far as we can tell none of the ones we kept have mistletoe.

I don't know about the junipers though as we have none.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline rick91351

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #152 on: January 04, 2014, 07:07:37 PM »
Our big nice Ponderosa Pines here when they die from the Pine Beetles they will some times in a few weeks be green then orange then color them done.  So sad 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #153 on: January 04, 2014, 07:42:31 PM »
If you look at the third picture, the one of the dead Juniper, you can see all the clumps of the mistletoe.   It did go to orange very quickly, and died. It could be something else, but all the affected trees seem to have the mistletoe clumps.  These are as big juniper as I have seen. When I cut one down I want to count the tree rings. I think they are very old.

 

Offline old_guy

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #154 on: January 17, 2014, 10:14:05 AM »
The mistletoe is one more thing the tree has to deal with.  That, combined with the drought, was too much.  So those trees die first.

I wonder if mistletoe gets greedy during a drought?  If it is wasteful of moisture, it might take even more when the tree has less to offer.

Don - count your blessings if you have gotten rid of the mistletoe.

Offline Don_P

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #155 on: January 18, 2014, 06:00:19 AM »
I tend to agree, often it isn't a case of one thing killing a tree, it's more a case of the straw that broke the camel's back. Ours are under environmental and site condition stress, the big ones have some age although nothing near maximum and accumulated damage with entry wounds, add another straw or two and they begun the downward spiral.

On the hip roofed frame pictured notice that he raised the ties above the plates. This added some complications. The hips then needed the dragon pieces in the corners for the long heel cut of the hips to land on, notice the 45* angled timbers let into the corners that suppot the heels of the hips. If the ties rest on the plates and then the hips land on the ties you've accomplished the tension restraint and support of the heel of the hip in one operation. I've seen a rigid steel angle reinforcing the plate corner and no tie, engineer land but it worked.

This is a roof I've been playing with, it has 8 sides but has ties on the plate and hips landing on the ties like I'm describing. The "off" ties are carried by a square of dragon beams with those hips landing on dragon pieces. This avoids a cluster of ties trying to come together all at one point down below.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 07:21:34 AM by Don_P »

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #156 on: May 05, 2014, 11:26:37 AM »
I've not posted in awhile.

I have a good space for some apples, but at 7800 feet above sea level, it is questionable if an orchard will have any success. The old and mature Apricot tree produces a lot of fruit, maybe one year out of five.  The other years, an April freeze kills the flowers. It can even freeze in May, occasionally.

I found some Arkansas Black apple trees at a local nursery. These are supposed to be cold tolerant and late flowering. In mid- April when I bought them, they had no leaves or flowers.  Leaves started to appear in the fourth week of April. A flower started to grow May 3.  My understanding is that the Apples are ready to harvest late, in October.

I figured I would plant 2 and see how they do this summer, and if they survive plant some more next Fall or next Spring.

Arkansas Black is a cross pollinating apple, so I will have to find compatible trees to get fruit.  Does anyone have suggestions  for a cold tolerant apple tree that would be a good compliment?

One problem is that I have no water supply near the orchard to get them established. However I do have a rain-barrel, and figured I could fill it by hand with buckets of water from the well and put a timer on between the barrel and the 1/4" tube I would feed to the trees, letting water flow for 10 minutes every two days. I would do this until they were established.

Nothing goes as planned!

The timer, and apparently most hose timers, require 15 PSI pressure to operate. I discovered that after planting the trees. I had assumed it was just an on-off switch that controlled a rotating ball valve. N0, the membrane valve requires high water PSI. All the units available at the box stores seem to have this design.

So the poor little trees are sitting un watered, beyond the initial soak.  For now they will get a 10 gallons by hand every two weeks. They may well die.

I found a O PSI hose timer on the Internet.  So hopefully, I can get that ordered and installed soon.

http://www.wateryourlandscape.com/dripirrigation/products/timers

I dug into my compost pile which has been working for two years. Composting goes very slowly in this arid climate, with moisture being added mostly in winter. However the results were quite excellent for a pile of crap.  This worked out well.

I used the compost for mulch.

My camera died (it's been intermittent since getting wet on a backpacking trip in Escalante, Utah two weeks back) so...

I can't show the rain-barrel and drip irrigation.

I can't show the deer fence that I put up (which may or may not be adequate).

Just poor planning on my part I guess. The College of Agriculture is an expensive one!














Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #157 on: May 20, 2014, 05:46:58 PM »

Two weeks go by, and I am pretty worried about the newly planted apple trees, because the are not getting water. 

I got up there last Sunday, and they are fine. No damage from drought, deer, or bunnies.  Especially the bunnies, who are abundant this year.

I was definitely surprised and encouraged.  There were even a few blossoms on one of the trees. Hummingbirds are everywhere this year.

I gave each tree 20 gallons of water, and the drip is working now.  From the 55 gallon rain barrel, they get about 10 minutes every two days, from the 1/4" hose.  Maybe later this year I can run a line from the pump down here - which would be better than carrying buckets full of water to fill the rain barrel.

Maybe the reason there is no animal damage is that the mulch is well composted Humanure from before we built the outhouse.  Just a hunch and I will have to ask over at the Permies forum if anyone has had similar experience.  You would never know that was poop!




Offline MountainDon

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #158 on: May 20, 2014, 07:12:13 PM »
Glad to hear the trees are doing well.

We had a couple hummingbirds stop and look in our cabin window on Sunday.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline rick91351

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #159 on: May 20, 2014, 08:02:46 PM »
WOW I missed you first post on the apples.

Question one is how cold do you get there?

I have never seen Arkansas Black on a cold weather list.  I would love to try them.  But they would not make it here I really do not think.

We have well over a hundred fruit trees here.  We have done a lot of experimental stuff.  Ol Jarhead turned me on to a really good cold weather nursery.  Their root stock is from Russia and they are hardy and healthy.
   
Your apples right now will do fine with ten gallons or so a week.  After they get established they will do fine with five a week.   ???  But then that is where we do not have the evaporation you most likely.  We watered here for a couple years carrying water and and a gallon and a half a minute well.  Took all day with all our trees.  You do not want them to be overly wet however.  Optimally from what I read five gallons a week is better than drip.  This induces root growth however if that is not possable.  Heck yes use drip or what ever it takes.     

I would abort the fruit (pick off the blossoms) for the next three years.  You want them to concentrate on root growth not fruit.  When you do have fruit it will be sort of small and not very good for a few years.

This is in my experimental mini orchard,  If you use two more tee posts and you can move you cage to allow weeding easy.   Wire the cage to the tee posts so deer and cattle will not shove the cage out of the way. 





Another thing I did in the mini orchard. 



You can use hardware cloth as a great way to keep the rabbits and other rodents at bay.  Hardware cloth allows for air movement and will not gauld the trunks like solids.



 

 

 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #160 on: May 21, 2014, 10:09:15 AM »
I may well do that with the T stakes. Currently the bottom of the wire is staked in three places, with the stake on the inside. I have a few old T posts around and could certainly do three.  If the deer get at it still, it may mean the kind of measures like you have taken.  I was just able to wrap the trunks late last weekend.

From what I understand they are a cold weather tree.  The tags said -30.  There is a recorded temperature of -40 in the 1930s but I think -30 or even -20 is rare.  They certainly leaf out quite late - leaves started to appear in early May and there are still a few emerging.  Same as the oaks around here.  Fruits are in October.

My understanding is that Arkansas Black needs cross-pollination so I don't think there will be fruit until I plant something complementary. Maybe I should look at the trees with the Russian root stock that you and Ol Jarhead are using -- especially if they would cross pollinate!  I bought these Arkansas Black mainly because the local nursery is stocking them, I knew they were alive and in good shape, and they have a reputation for doing well here. 

I still would like some Dixon tree stock! Not going to happen though. What a loss and what a mess.

I think at the most I would plant 4-6 more next year. I'm just not around enough to really take care of them.

Interesting to note how hard it is to find a battery powered hose timer that works with 0 PSI!




Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #161 on: May 21, 2014, 10:13:18 AM »
Oh - I found this interesting -- did not try it though - 30 Pound Test Monofilament Fishing Line as a deer fence.  Effective it seems but you would replace it each year.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nKWsyn9TgHE&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/nKWsyn9TgHE&fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PbRRgIbYKgw&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/PbRRgIbYKgw&fs=1</a>

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #162 on: October 19, 2014, 02:39:35 PM »
I can report three seasons of use with the Simple Pump, with no significant issues. Pump head and motor are fully exposed to the elements.

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #163 on: October 19, 2014, 02:41:25 PM »
[October 2014] The Arkansas Black apple trees are doing quite well, and have taken, at 7800 feet.  I have watered them modestly, every 2-3 weeks during the summer.

Offline rick91351

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #164 on: October 19, 2014, 06:24:48 PM »
Any luck on the Dixons?  I have been watching and does not sound good at all.  Even I am get upset with their attitude. 

So glad your  apples are still going.  You might make a cage out of hardware cloth around them to keep the rodents from girdling them in the winter.

   
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline Tickhill

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #165 on: October 20, 2014, 03:01:37 AM »
Thanks for the deer fence videos. I enclosed our garden spot with 4 strands of 50 lb. mono line and had NO deer inside the "fence". I had 4 rows of purple hull peas with squash and cucumbers, also 30 tomato plants. Normally the purple hull peas would be mowed down with us getting 1 picking but we were able to pick until they bared no more. A friend of mine did the same thing only on a little larger scale and he reported NO deer.
Thanks
Tickhill
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Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #166 on: October 20, 2014, 07:26:21 AM »
Funny you should ask Rick. I was driving from Albuquerque to Bandelier National Monument last Saturday, on the very bad Dome Road.  There is a great view of what is left of Dixon Orchards - which is not much.



In the center of this picture along the stream pretty much was the extent of the orchard. You can see it is almost all gone.



This second close-up is detail of what used to be part of the orchard.   You can also see the road blowouts which still are not fixed.
 Compare historically in Google Earth and you can see the extent of the devastation.

The demise of the orchard by flood was directly caused by the utter devastation of the Las Conchas and Dome fires on the watershed above.  The fire completely denuded the watershed of trees, burning away the topsoil down to the rock in many places.  Now whenever it rains, there is little catchment for the runoff and we get these huge floods. 

And this has become quite the political hot potatoes.  Aubrey Dunn, who is running against incumbent Ray Powell for State Land Commissioner, is using the demise of the orchard via the fire and subsequent flood, and the removal of the caretakers from the place afterwards as a political weapon.

Here is Dunn's video.



The video leaves out many important points, and you can see comments are closed.  I won't go into that, but effectively, this location is no longer any good for an orchard, because many more huge floods will wash through in the coming years.  And the caretakers were heavily subsidized tenants of the state, and were upset that the subsidy went away with the orchard.

Sad, because Ray Powell has been a decent state land commissioner, and seems an honest and quietly effective at his job of generating school income from state lands.  Dunn is an oil guy, with a lot of money behind him to through at the campaign, and I just don't trust him to be a good steward.  However, Powell seems to have been blindsided by this, and has not mounted an effective defense.

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #167 on: May 27, 2015, 08:54:41 AM »
Above I posted a link to a Youtube video "Cheap, easy, and effective dear fence for your garden".  I tried it on one new apple tree this spring.  I can say it may be cheap and easy, but it is not effective.  The deer plowed right through the 1' spaced 30 pound test fishing line , snapping quite a few strands, and completely denuded the tree.  The metal fenced trees have not been touched by the deer.

I have a question though.  Can an apple tree that has been stripped of all its leaves early in the season recover?  The tree is still supple.

Offline rick91351

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #168 on: May 27, 2015, 11:16:50 AM »
Above I posted a link to a Youtube video "Cheap, easy, and effective dear fence for your garden".  I tried it on one new apple tree this spring.  I can say it may be cheap and easy, but it is not effective.  The deer plowed right through the 1' spaced 30 pound test fishing line , snapping quite a few strands, and completely denuded the tree.  The metal fenced trees have not been touched by the deer.

I have a question though.  Can an apple tree that has been stripped of all its leaves early in the season recover?  The tree is still supple.


Should bounce right back keep me informed......

Might try my mini orchard approach

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10850.msg171896#msg171896

Especially if you can Craislist the materials....  The  larger one work so well and you can even incorporate a gate.  They are doing so well - with a minimum amount of work.....   
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #169 on: May 27, 2015, 11:48:22 AM »
I hope it does!   The tree is better protected now, so any new leaf growth should be safe for a few years.   The drip irrigation works well.

What I really need to do is fence around the orchard - the trees will outgrow their cages soon enough. 

The whole thing is a doubtful proposition at 7800 feet though.  Freezing temps until VERY recently.

Both Arkansas Black trees survived the winter nicely. I believe temps were down to about -15.


Offline rick91351

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #170 on: May 27, 2015, 12:23:11 PM »
You really need to look for late blooming apples and a root stock to match your soil - Semi dwarfs do work here.  Would not waste my time on dwarfs in your location at all. Unless there are some dwarf root stocks that I do not know about.....  Actually I would look for full sized trees and that are smaller like a semi dwarf I know I must likely caused a what the heck. Even full sized tree root stocks some grow pretty compact smaller trees.....  But are more hardy.  7800' is high but do able.....  might be harder around here but down your way.....       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #171 on: May 27, 2015, 12:40:22 PM »
What I have right now are late blooming - two full size (I believe) Arkansas Blacks that flower early May, one (new) semi-dwarf Fuji and one (new) semi-dwarf Granny Smith (defoliated now) - the last two self-pollinating and selected for cross pollination of the Arkansas Blacks.  All are supposed to give fruit very late season - September or October.  The Arkansas Blacks are doing quite well (year 2).  The self-pollinators are an unknown and I don't know how they will do (though one may or may not be history).  Frost free season is generally second week in May to early October.  We get fruit on the big old apricot tree maybe one out of four years (???). We are just a little higher than the former Dixon Orchards. Not the best conditions, but if nothing else they will be nice trees.


Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #172 on: May 27, 2015, 12:43:27 PM »
Year 4 with the weather exposed Simple Pump. No issues to report. I'm very satisfied with it.   

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #173 on: October 05, 2015, 03:25:31 PM »
This is our summer project, just completed, a gazebo.

It was a kit, that we bought from our local Costco.   The manufacturer is Yardistry, a Canadian company. Cost was, as I remember, about $1200.

Yardistry Wood Gazebo with Aluminum Roof

http://yardistrystructures.com/wood_gazebo_with_aluminum_roof.php

The gazebo has a 12x12 footprint. Material is cedar. 

The structure is highly engineered.  Quite a few parts to put together, and 4 weekends (maybe 16 hours?).  First step, check carefully that the many parts and fasteners are in the 3 boxes.  They were. Good QA/ QC.

Written assembly instructions are outstanding! Step by step, written in clear un-translated English, and very clear.  Illustrations were very helpful.  We found very few errors in the instructions, and those were very minor.

We needed support for two issues.

1.  A few parts arrived warped or cracked and needed replacement.

2.  Tie down.

A call to Yardistry during business hours was immediately answered by an English speaking representative. She was knowledgeable and sent our replacement parts out within a day. They arrived via UPS, well packed with no damage.  Our second issue required engineering support, and our question was answered within 2 business days.

Yardistry is a class act. Wish more businesses were this responsive. This was a really fun building kit project.

Here are the build photos:

First the old shed roof had to come down. Ugly as it was, it served us well and outlasted all our predictions of collapse by four years!



































All done.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 08:18:03 PM by hpinson »

Offline hpinson

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Re: 24x24 in Western New Mexico
« Reply #174 on: February 28, 2016, 06:18:27 PM »
Here I am worried about elk and deer getting the apple trees.  Rabbits destroyed them, at snow level, over winter.