CountryPlans Design/Build Forum

General => General Forum => Topic started by: jraabe on July 10, 2005, 08:07:46 AM

Title: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 10, 2005, 08:07:46 AM
Small buildings that often don't need a permit - What is the best design and the easiest construction? What are your ideas? What would you build?

See the contest and winners in this Owner Builder Gallery link - http://www.countryplans.com/contest.html

What follows below is the history of the discussion as the contest evolved.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 10, 2005, 08:52:14 AM
They have squeezed the non-permit buildings down to 10'x12' here with no plumbing or electrical.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 10, 2005, 10:45:17 AM
Ah yes, California does "lead the nation" doesn't it?  ;)

Still, many places will let you build these tiny houses and the design exercise is a good one...
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 10, 2005, 12:14:53 PM
(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos/CopperCabin_FlrPlan_WEB.jpg)
10'x22'

(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos/CopperTop_Complete_WEB.jpg)

Mounted on trailer for easy relocation. The home can be removed from the trailer and set onto a permanent foundation. Trailer can be licensed for over the road transport. Trailer has two-3500 pound axles, brakes on one axle. 2-5/8” trailer ball, mechanical tongue jack. Trailer can be towed with half ton pickup with a Class III weight distributing hitch, or with a heavy duty pickup truck with Class III hitch.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: FrankInWI on July 10, 2005, 12:28:02 PM
Wow, I think your "tow-able" is a great first contribution!   What does the frame underneith look like?  Being on wheels I bet it could qualify as an "RV" and that might keep the  inspectors at arms length on a few topics (like my need for cheap but non-violating human waste disposal).   Way to go, I like the floorplan too, and love the little bump out for the sink!
Title: Re: Rules of Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: trish on July 10, 2005, 12:32:13 PM
A contest?  How fun!!

Question:  If we include a sleeping loft, as in the the picture link you provided, does that count as part of the 200 sq feet?  Or do just the first floor dimensions have to be less that 200 sq feet?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 10, 2005, 12:32:34 PM
(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos_FromBK_WEB/TinyGrey_Ray_WEB/TinyGrey_FlrPln_WEB.jpg)
10'x14'
(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos/GreyCabin_WEB.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 10, 2005, 12:41:49 PM
This one is my favorite. Who says a tiny house can't be architecturally interesting!?!
(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos_FromBK_WEB/Campbells_WEB/Campbell%20tiny%20house%20front_WEB.jpg)

(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos_FromBK_WEB/Campbells_WEB/Campbell-danny%20inside_WEB.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: hobbiest on July 10, 2005, 07:12:39 PM
Where are you diggin these up Dave?  I love em!  I made up a floor plan for a 10 by 12 to fit my wife, 3 kids and I.  Living room and Dining would happen outside on a (theoretical) urbanite patio.  I will see If I can dig them up and scan them.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 11, 2005, 08:49:36 AM
For our purposes lofts won't count as long as the sidewall is no higher than 10' (I'm not speaking for anyone's building department here).

These are great little designs David. For the purpose of the contest and posting to the gallery page we need to give credit to the designers of these mobile mini homes. Do you have a link?

A derivative design based on one of these is always a possibility too (with credit to the initial design).
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 11, 2005, 10:23:27 AM
Oops... sorry.

The designs are from http://www.tinyhousecompany.com

I posted a link to their book in the books thread too.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 11, 2005, 02:58:03 PM
Here is a project contribution from Peter Sloan who sent an email with this photo and the following description:

(http://www.countryplans.com/images/sloan-1.jpg)

"I got the plans from http://www.sheldondesigns.com/ .  It's 12x16 (192sf) not including the deck or the loft."

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on July 11, 2005, 10:39:01 PM
Here ya go,
Slightly over 200 sq. ft but its hot down here and my tape stretched. I will post elevations when they are done, but for now, it’s a flat roof. The floor area is 224 sq. ft not counting the window seat and kitchen popout. You will need to be "in love" cause the bed is only a double (not king size)
The drawing is done in autosketch but I can supply dxf or dwg files that should pop straight into your drawing software.  ;D
jonesy.

(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/200 sq ft.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 12, 2005, 07:09:29 AM
Nice one Jonesy... Very simple structure. In some locations the pop-outs could be supported off a simple rectangular foundation. The deck integrates nicely and becomes a big outdoor room.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: FrankInWI on July 12, 2005, 07:19:00 PM
I was told by the county my 200 sq ft max was measured by "the footprint".  I wonder if I can get away with "cantilevered space" not being counted.  I would think it'd be easier to argue if there was a true 200 sq ft laid foundation rather than an elevated structure.  ...but I don't want to put it permanently in place.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on July 13, 2005, 08:38:52 AM
I like Jonesey's--although I'd hate to have the bathroom plumbing as a pop-out in a hard freeze.

I've lived here for four years now--didn't build it.

(http://www.gulfstreamcoach.com/conquest/conquesttow/floorplans/24-RBL.jpg)

At roughly 8 x 24, it's just sub-200 feet, maybe a bit over if you used 2x6 walls (it uses 2x2)

And there's a very similar one with a second bedroom of a sort--same size.

(http://www.gulfstreamcoach.com/conquest/conquesttow/floorplans/24-BHL.jpg)

There's a curtain between the main bedroom (short queen bed--length of a full or twin) and the rest.

and an awning, which the designers think you are going to use as a living room most of the time.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 13, 2005, 09:05:20 AM
Doing a pop-out that satisfies local inspectors gets into interpretations.

However, most building departments do not count small projections that are cantilevered out over the foundation. These, "architectural features" can include bays, pop-outs and window seats. Usually the depth limit is around 24"-36".

Such projections can be supported by extending floor joists, a bracket that carries the weight back into the wall, or some combination of the two.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on July 13, 2005, 11:55:11 PM
I have decided to disqualify myself from the comp, as this plan does not strictly meet the 200sq ft criteria. I am working on version 2; it should make the grade. However, as I think this is a cute little cottage with some potential I have posted a couple of jpeg's on my webspace. (Links below) If anyone is interested in working on this design, feel free to copy them. If you would like the drawing files, email me, address is on the webpage.
For ease of construction, the roof is near enough flat, about 6" of fall. The sun angle I have used is for my latitude. You will need to use your own to get the right amount of verandah overhang for shading. The living area is near enough, 10' x 20'.
jonesy ;)

http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/200sqftelv.jpg

http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/200sqftfooting.jpg
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: RAB on July 14, 2005, 09:27:33 AM
Some viewers may find the garden sheds' overhangs a little too much, however with 2' of snow the foundation and door still remain clear providing great access and storage for all those "outside" garden items and on a sunny day a great place to seek refuge from the hot sun.

Size: 12' 1 ½ " x 10' 1 ½"
Overhangs: 42"
Wall ht: 7'
Roof Pitch: 4/12
Foundation: 4x6 p.t. on ¾- gravel leveled and compacted, ½" rebar 24" long driven through p.t. into ground - 2 pins per side. 4x6 sits "in" gravel with its 3 1/2" face down.
Wall construction: Studs are 2x6 salvaged cedar deck, 24" oc, single top plate, 2 stud corners, no sub-sheeting, salvaged 8" cedar beveled exterior siding.
Roof construction: Rafters are 4x6 salvaged deck beams, 24" oc with 42" overhangs, gable end lookouts are 2x6 – 36" oc.

(http://i1.tinypic.com/mjv0ww.gif)
(image edited J. Raabe 1-24-06)


Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 14, 2005, 08:41:48 PM
Nice view of what would get by in our county without a permit, Ryan, and good use of salvage materials.

I just got two 28' dump truck loads of 3x6 hiway  bridge timbers free and will put them to use one of these days -- nailed solid on edge-- literally tons of them.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 14, 2005, 08:46:35 PM
I love those deep eves! :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on July 15, 2005, 07:31:50 AM
Would Peter Sloan happen to have any interior photos or a floor plan of how his 12x16 is laid out?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on July 15, 2005, 05:15:04 PM
Version two.
This is a small version of my first plan. The living area has been reduced and an extra popout added. These changes bring it in at just on 200 sq. ft. The kitchen and both seating popouts I have not counted as floor area.  The eating popout has a built in seat that could double as a small sleeper and would have storage space within. At a pinch, the table could be stored on the deck at night and the extra floor space used as a sleeping area (mattress on the floor). I have kept the roof more or less flat, for ease of construction; however, there is no reason it could not have a pitched roof with a sleeping loft. The drawings include a stump layout, but a crawl space foundation could be used that would enclose the bathroom plumbing. This area is included in the cottage footprint. Again the roof overhang is for my latitude and would need to be adjusted to suit other areas. The deck could be designed as large as needed and in fact would be more use stretched to 12'. You can print out for your own use a large drawing at the link below.
Now, I wait with bated breath for the underground version of the 200 sq, ft permit free cottage. ;D
jonesy

(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/200smaller.jpg)

http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/200small.jpg

PS. Sorry folks, I have used metrics because that is what I am familiar with. The easiest way to handle that, if building, would be to buy a metric tape and use it without converting. The direct conversion to imperial will give odd measurements that if rounded out would put it outside the design criteria. :D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 15, 2005, 09:48:58 PM
Jonesy, how are we ever gonna catch any fish if you keep eating the bait ???

I thought I would just set back and watch on this one as I can never seem to contain myself in 200 square feet.   ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 16, 2005, 11:34:38 AM
 Jonesy, we've already seen what Glenn would design when limited by county regulations to 10'x12' max size, no plumbing or electrical!!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 16, 2005, 01:45:08 PM
In school they always yelled at me-- "Glenn - you are not a team player. >:("  I'd always think to myself, gee--thanks for the compliment! ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 17, 2005, 06:03:20 AM
Jonsey:

I really like that tidy little cabin. Very space efficient and the deck makes a nice indoor/outdoor room. Easy to build too.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 17, 2005, 02:00:31 PM
How do I get plans and views out of 3d Home Architect 3.0?

Something I'd like to share for this competition.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Daddymem on July 17, 2005, 04:40:54 PM
Can't help with specifics on 3dHA but look for save as or export options.  If all else fails, zoom in and use ctrl-print screen or alt-print screen then dump the capture into an image editor or get a screen capture program like Gadwin Printscreen which allows you to select which portion of what is on your screen you want to clip.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on July 17, 2005, 07:23:28 PM
They save or export as files I don't know anything about .dxf or .wmf

apparently no GIF or JPG.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 17, 2005, 07:59:24 PM
My first effort with 3DHA:

(http://www.oz.net/~whisper/images/12x15.jpg)

The basic size, before "bumps" is 12' x 15' or 180 sq. ft. However, with
bumps, it says 254 sq. ft. (not including loft).

Can't figure out how to make the 1st floor walls 10' and the loft have a
2' side wall (front and back).

The "book case" opposite the front door is a stand-in for the ladder to
the loft. The other bookcase by the door to the bath will end up having
a drop down writing surface and the director's chair can be used to work
at it. Otherwise, the director's chair can be folded up for more traffic
area. A flat screen TV could go on the wall below or instead of the
abstract painting.

The roof is my best effort - and it's bad! LOL I did end up liking the
peaked roof with cathederal ceiling over the couch though! The dining
booth is supposed to have a plain shed roof, as is the bath. At least
the 2nd floor roof is exactly right!

Part of the roof problem is that some of the walls that should be are
not lined up with each other, but I haven't yet figured out how to fix that.

On balance, I REALLY like this little pad!

(http://www.oz.net/~whisper/images/12x15profile.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on July 17, 2005, 09:55:08 PM
Here is the loft version of my earlier drawing. It makes for a slightly more complex roof structure but gives space that is a bit more useful. The loft could be used as a bed space for a couple of youngsters, with access using a ladder stored out of the way when not needed. There is around 4' of headspace at the peak and about 2' at the wall. The little windows in the loft would need to be fixed so a skylight may be worthwhile for ventilation up there.
This would put a ceiling at just above window height in the kitchen area.

David,
The export dxf file will let you share files with other drawing programs. The wmf I would assume is a windows file of some type. The plan looks great and I think it would make a great seaside cottage as is. Maybe a walkout deck on the second floor would be option worth looking at, possibly incorporated into the veranda.
jonesy.


(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/loftsmaller.jpg)

http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/loftsmall.jpg
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Daddymem on July 18, 2005, 03:23:47 AM
Quote
They save or export as files I don't know anything about .dxf or .wmf

apparently no GIF or JPG.



.dxf can be brought into CAD/CAM proggies, I think it stands for drawing exchange format.  

.wmf is windows meta file which can be brought into many different programs as an image.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 18, 2005, 09:24:50 AM
Jonsey; What drawing program are you using?

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on July 18, 2005, 01:07:07 PM
David,
I am using a very old version of Autosketch. I did upgrade to version 6 but hated it; it was a lot harder to use, way to complicated.  Version 2, the one I am using is only 2D and you can find it some places on the Internet, free. Auto sketch doesn't support it anymore and it is a little unstable on windows 98, I think, a conflict with the mouse. I have been caught a few times not saving often enough. It can import and export dxf and dwf files that will allow me to manipulate files from other drawing software. The drawings I have posted on the forum, I have just printed and scanned, it would be possible for us to exchange dxf files if we wanted to.
I have been thinking about your design overnight, I think it has possibilities as a full-blown house. Sort of brings to mind those forestry watchtowers. Not restricted by the 200sq ft rules the lower floor could be expanded to reasonably normal dimensions and a full staircase added. The bedroom with windows on 4 sides would be brilliant, especially with a walkout deck. I could just see this house built on a coastal site somewhere. Great job mate, keep working at it.
jonesy
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 18, 2005, 01:55:47 PM
Jonsey;

Thanks for the compliment! :)

How about making a flat roof over the dining booth and have that be the walk out deck for the 2nd floor - and then extend the 2nd floor roof over it! A sleeping porch/logia!

I indeed would like to design a larger model unconstrained by the 200 sq. ft. limit, with regular stairs and etc.

3DHA does export dxf files, so if you would like a copy of my efforts, please let me know. whisper_at_ozDOTnet ;) ("Oz" is a name used here because Seattle is called the Emerald City ("of OZ") ;))

One thing I would like to do with the existing design is to carry the bit of roof that's over the sliding door over to just past the doorway, leaving a bit of a reveal at the corner.

A bit of redesign is also needed so that the 2nd floor corner doesn't come down in the middle of the sliding glass door - I bet the engineers and city inspectors would not go for that! ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on July 18, 2005, 02:21:56 PM
Thanks David,
I'll get back to you this evening, I've got a digger bucket to hardface right now and the contractor is putting the pressure on. The flat roof over the eating area sounds like it would work. Make it and the door big enough so; the bed could be pushed outside for those hot summer nights. Nothing like sleeping under the stars. ;D
jonesy
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 18, 2005, 03:47:02 PM
Here is a post of David's floorplan which he had sent me in 3DHA format and I doctored up only slightly.

(http://www.countryplans.com/images/dave-pad.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 18, 2005, 08:38:03 PM
Wow John! That's really cool!

One point: the "ladder to loft" is opposite the door opening between the galley and sitting room. What you have labelled is a bookcase, but it could be an alcove for  a small marine propane stove.

The loft stops at the edge of the sliding door, so it's only about 10' x 12'. The easy chair is half under the lower ceiling and half over the higher ceiling.

BTW, I figured out how to get these into .jpg format by exporting from 3DHA as .wmf files and then opening in IrfanView, a freeware image viewer (highly recommended!), and then saving as .jpg.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on July 19, 2005, 06:25:38 AM
IrfanView is a very good tool and a good suggestion for 3DHA image conversions.

Sorry about the mislabeling. That's what I get for trying to reinterpret somebody else's work.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on July 19, 2005, 08:16:58 AM
David, very good plan.  What about clothing storage?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on July 19, 2005, 08:54:19 AM
My trailer has a row of cabinets directly over the window at the head of the bed--it's not bad for clothes that would otherwise go into a dresser.   A shallow mini-loft might work in David's plan, with drawers or shelves and doors.

Trailer also has a pull-up bed, suitable for out-of season storage.  One might be able to home-brew a convertible couch/bed that incorporates this.

I was wondering where plates and silverware and so on would go. Same thing would work, but be a bit more annoying--stepping out of shoes and onto the dinette five or six times a day would be worse than standing on bed to take down the clothes for the day.  

Unless you used something like these:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=48678&cat=3,43722,43759

(http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/hardware/shelves/12k1560s2.jpg )

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 19, 2005, 09:04:18 AM
Clothes storage in the loft. Loft is approximately 10'x12'. Surely you gals can store at least the necessities up there? ;)

There are cabinets over the sink, and there should be a hood over the stove. Additional pantry storage is under the seats in the dining booth.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on July 19, 2005, 09:14:59 AM
My problem is the ladder.  I've set aside a 4' armoire to hold my clothes, but can't see having to climb a ladder for access.  But if you don't have joint issues, that would certainly be an option.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 19, 2005, 09:19:48 AM
How deep is the armoire? If not too deep, one could modify the bath layout (going for a smaller shower) and create room to extend the alcove that's currently marked "ladder to loft" ;).

That would easily be 4' of space, but only maybe 30" deep.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on July 19, 2005, 11:30:22 AM
The armoire is 25" deep x 48" wide, 7 1/2 feet tall, with room for four baskets (or drawers) at the bottom for those non-hanging clothes.

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 19, 2005, 11:03:52 PM
Ok, here's my shot at this...

(http://tinypic.com/95y7sx.jpg)

If it seems familiar, that's because I just took Ross Chapin's Backyard Cottage design (http://www.rosschapin.com/Plans/Cottage/Backyard/backyard.html) and mucked about with it in a drawing program.

The main rectangle is 11' x 14' with a 3' x 7' dining alcove and 4' x 6' bumpout for the bathroom... Grand total 199 sq ft. The window seat is not included. Compared to Chapin's design the living room/kitchen area is reduced from about 16' to 14' long. The living room width is increased from about 10.5' to 11' in front of the window seat, and decreased to 10' where the bathroom bumps in.

The main roof is a simple 12 in 12 pitch gable with the ridge running from front (top) to back. It extends over the dining alcove and back porch. With standard 8' walls, there is still almost 7' of headroom in the loft bedroom attic storage area. A smaller gable covers the bath and entrance porch, providing space for the water heater. The window seat has a small shed roof.

As for the suggestions aspect of the contest, these are my ideas...

- Use 2x4 construction instead of 2x6. The difference adds up to almost 11 sq ft in a building this small!! If you need more insulation, put foam board on the outside.

- Coat hooks or a coat rack serve the same purpose as a coat closet in less space. (Those plus signs behind the front door are supposed to be coat hooks.)

- Put the shower outside if you have the climate and privacy (or lack of modesty) for it.

- Save even more space in the bathroom by using a toilet with a high-mount tank, like this one...
(http://www.rensup.com/t/Thumb12149.jpg)

- Put the water heater in the attic or crawlspace if you have one, otherwise use a tankless model.

- If you're on the grid, use simple electric baseboards or electric radiant heat. As John has pointed out, it doesn't take much to heat a small space. If off the grid, David's suggestion of a marine stove is a good one. They're expensive though.

Bart
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on July 20, 2005, 02:43:52 AM
Cricky Bart, you stole my thunder,  :D
I was just in the process of writing up those very same thoughts. This challenge of John's is a great exercise, and I think well worth having a shot at. At 200sq ft this cabin is little more than a large closet, and it requires a bit of head scratching to come up with a building that works. In my design, the 2x4 walls take about 10% of the floor area, a good chunk gone before you start.  
Worth thinking about, is the purpose the building would serve, as this will effect the design in a number of ways. For instance, as a camping cabin for a small family, clear floor space is probably more important than delineated areas. Bedding can be as simple as a mattress on the floor, or youngsters crammed up in a small loft space. Smaller, simple appliances could be utilized, and washing taken to the laundromat. As Bart suggests, toilet facilities moved outside, climate permitting.
As a small home for one or two people, purpose built and dual use furnishings could be used, foldout beds, beds and seating with storage space under and simple hanging hooks for stuff that needs it. Doors that open out of the living space, cavity sliders and folding doors are space saving options to be considered. A wall mounted pan with the cistern in the wall cavity or roof space would be worth looking at.
The use of popouts is a good option, but as John pointed out, probably open to interpretation. I guess this would depend on how much the inspector likes your homebrew.  ;D
A gabled roof would provide extra space, but its usefulness would be dependent on the agility of the occupants. (To tough for me) ;)
I don't know if it's an option over there but most of our water heaters are designed to be outside the building, I guess this would depend on how cold it gets where you build.
jonesy.
BTW, Bart, nice plan, I really like it a lot
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 20, 2005, 08:31:09 AM
Pssssst, Bart: you left out the stove! ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 20, 2005, 10:41:12 AM
You're right Jonsey, the intended use will affect the design. I should have said that mine is intended for long-term living by one or two people, but could accomodate a couple more for shorter periods. With permanent living in mind, I replaced Chapin's undercounter fridge with a full height one. To compensate for that I had to sacrifice something else, so David, the stove had to go. I figure that most cooking could be done in a microwave or toaster oven mounted above the counter. Other options are countertop electric burners or a crockpot. For real charred meat, an outside barbeque could be used.

This was a great exercise and much more difficult than it first appeared. It has me reconsidering how much space I really need in my own cabin. The prospect of having to carry in all the building materials gives me a very strong motivation to keep it small.

Bart

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 20, 2005, 11:52:46 AM
If one may be so bold....
(http://tinypic.com/95y7sx.jpg)

1. Move ladder to where clothes pegs are on outer wall. Delete angled wall.

2. Move fridge to far end of counter by the dining alcove.

3. Put L-shaped wall where double-dotted line at end of counter is. Place 24" stove there (facing dining alcove of course). Mount combination microwave/hood above. Put clothes hanging pegs on entry area side of wall (or ladder - see comments below about bedroom expansion).

4. Either retain space formerly occupied by fridge as counter space or build closet opening to entry area as "hall closet". Put "shorty" hot water heater under this corner either way.

5. Either delete 2nd arm chair or move it to lower left corner of siting area. (For my $, the chair goes!)

6. Put shoulder height window in shower enclosure. Nothing like a nice breeze and a view whilst showering!

For me, the couch needs to be at least 7' long. That way, allowing 6" per arm, the usable sitting/sleeping area is 6'. A 6' couch yields only 5' of sleeping surface, which just isn't enough! ;)

I would make roof peak run from right to left. That way, the place where the hanging pegs are now shown could be a doorway into a 1st  floor bedroom behind the kitchen which, alas, would lose it's window. Of course, this would exceed the 200 sq. ft. max...

Can you post a diminsioned drawing, such as John did for my pad?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 20, 2005, 12:16:43 PM
Any ideas are welcome David, and yours are all good ideas except for the new ladder location. I don't think there would be adequate headroom below the roof there, unless you also radically redesigned the roof. But you could move it to the short wall next to the dining booth, behind the chair. Or, it might be able to go in corner next to the patio door if you turned the main roof so the ridge ran from side to side. You might also have to increase the sidewalls to 10' to get enough headroom there.

Another way to get an L-shaped kitchen with room for the stove would be to slide the dining alcove and patio door three feet to the left.

I might add dimensions in a couple of days but for now the dimensions are:

Front: 6' for bathroom, 4' on either side
Left side: 7' window seat, 2' on either side
Right side: 11' kitchen wall, 3' dining alcove
Back: 6' patio, 7' dining alcove, 1' at corner

For ease of construction, I was attempting to keep the main walls on 2' increments, or 1' where that wasn't possible.

Bart
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 20, 2005, 12:36:26 PM
I think putting the ladder on the wall behind the stove and making the roof peak run right-left would take care of headroom concerns for ascending ladder.

I like the idea of 10' walls in any case. Otherwise, this place might be a wee bit claustrophobic.

I'd call this the "walk-in house" considering it's about the size of a McMansion's walk-in closet. ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonsey/downunder on July 20, 2005, 03:04:18 PM
Bart,
Just a thought, as this building is not code compliant you could probably get away with only one entry door. I would though make sure that there is some type of fire exit from the loft, possibly a skylight and an outside ladder.
David, I think you just hit on a good name for these buildings. The country plans "McMansion's closet Range" of small homes, could be a great advertising gimmick when we start mass production.  ;D
jonesy
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: keyhole farmhouse on July 21, 2005, 02:28:17 AM
having problems posting, modifing, removing posts.  I'm being told to register.  I think I am.  When I try, I'm being told that name or password is already in use. I don't understand why I can post this than not remove it.  Have gone through the forum instructions, but I'm aparently missing something.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonsey/downunder on July 21, 2005, 02:58:02 AM
Hi keyhole farmhouse,
I don't think it is possible to use the delete feature as a guest.  You can register as a user and then you would have access to all the features of the forum. I think Glenn or John would be able to clear those posts for you when they come online later. Any help I can offer in the meantime just ask,I will be happy to offer what assistance I can.
jonesy

I just twigged; you are probably already registered. If so, click the home link at the top and scroll down the page. You will see a login box there, just use the login name and password you registered with and you are in. You should then have access to all the features you are looking for.

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 21, 2005, 06:38:51 AM
Hi keyhole farmhouse.  I pulled off the first post for you.  Maybe John has a suggestion -I think he posted something regarding this in instructions.  Try to get on as a registered user and see if what Jonesy suggested worked.  If you have more troubles let us know and we'll try to help.  I'll recheck tonight after work -3rd story welding in Sacramento today. ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 21, 2005, 04:27:46 PM
Keyhole farmhouse - I've sent you an email with a new password.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 21, 2005, 08:06:57 PM
What happened to Bart's plan?  ???
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 21, 2005, 09:27:19 PM
Some things that are good to keep in mind are the cross section and elevations.  Buildings don't just happen in 2D. Some of these designs are interesting, especially in plan view with all the angles and pop-outs. But... do we really know how to build it? If you can't think in full three dimensions (most of us can't, myself included) then KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Jonesy's design is a good one to review. He has a floorplan, two elevations and even a foundation plan. You can just about visualize how that building is going to go together. David has a start on getting his plan covered with a reasonable roof as well. Bart's Ross Chapin redo is fascinating.

(Suggestion to Jonesy and others - turn the gable the other way and have it span the wide direction. It can open up the center to lofts and...)

We're all learning a lot here, and that is good. We are also finding out that a design starts to evolve on you the more you work with it. This is also good.

Remember, we aren't after style or clever design, or an expression of the artist's ego. We are building a container for LIFE. That container needs to both have and express life.

When done right the architecture steps out of the way, takes the spotlight off itself and shines it on the life that is going on both inside and outside of itself.

Good building has sufficiency, firmness, and delight. With a 200sf limit the glass ceiling is on sufficiency. Don't expect this to be a family home. Think in terms of one open space with things happening at the edges - otherwise it can be too claustrophobic. Make it comfortable and sufficient for one person. Borrow space from the outside and pull it inside.

The best designs are likely to fit into a fairly simple package. Try taking your floorplan and "extruding" a cross section up from it to see how the roof might fit and if there is in fact a loft potential. Then sketch out a rough elevation to see if you like the look of it.

Good work - and keep it up!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 21, 2005, 09:43:24 PM
Again, I ask: what's happened to Bart's plan? Everything else loads, including the plans I posted and my plan that John posted with diminsions, etc. but Bart's plan doesn't show up and the browser hangs waiting for data from countryplans.com
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: PEG688 on July 21, 2005, 09:48:10 PM
Hey Dave,, on John's last post . Think of the coolest boat interior you've seen , project that with out loft , and put a roof , simple one , on it   ;)  Might be fun to see what that could look like  :)HTBH  ;)PEG
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 21, 2005, 10:09:46 PM
Dave:

Not sure if you are having problems seeing the floorplan Bart posted - the one w/ the TinyURL address?

Shows fine here and all the others are posting.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 21, 2005, 10:30:34 PM
David, I've also had it not show up sometimes. Refreshing the browser once or twice has always brought it back though. I think other people have also had problems with tinypic.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 22, 2005, 12:34:34 AM
Jonsey, the idea behind the two doors was that one leads out to a deck or balcony on the view side. The other allows visitors to approach the house from the side with no windows, thereby maintaining the occupants' privacy. On the other hand, if one could live with the patio door being the main entrance, then the existing extrance area could be used to not only to expand the kitchen, making room for David's stove, but also providing space for a stacked washer/dryer.

Hey PEG, are you working on a plan? Was it you who had plans for developing a community of small homes?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonsey/downunder on July 22, 2005, 05:27:53 AM
Hi to you keyholefarmhouse,
Welcome aboard and don't worry, we are all just learning stuff here. ;D
jonsey
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 22, 2005, 08:30:46 AM
Hi keyholefarmhouse.  Looks like you have it now.  I'll leave the rest of your previous posting as it may help someone who has a password problem.  Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 22, 2005, 09:38:39 AM
This: http://tinypic.com/95y7sx.jpg, which is Bart's floorplan, shows up here as a broken image. It won't load/display in IE either! :(

(http://tinypic.com/95y7sx.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 22, 2005, 12:23:12 PM
I just edited your posting using the provided link, David, and it came up fine on mine -and I assume it should show on your's ???

I'm using Mozilla Firefox -will try IE also.  I just viewed and modified in IE no problem -image is there and fine.  Have any problems with other pics-adware-spyware- virus- can't think of much else-- :-/
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 22, 2005, 12:35:09 PM
I'm using Firefox and it shows up for me, though not always on the first try. If anyone can suggest a reliable host that doesn't require providing a full auotbiography to set up an account, I'll move it.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jimmy C. on July 22, 2005, 12:38:47 PM
Has anyone ever thought about exterior walls hinged at the ceiling?  You could fold out a new room anytime you needed.  Would this pass as an under 200 sq.ft. building if it expanded  as a temporary function?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 22, 2005, 03:36:16 PM
I think you're onto something there Jimmy!

Especially for a lockbox type remote home. Have a deck or patio on 3? sides with 8' wide sections of the wall that could swing up and be quickly enclosed with screens, canvas or whatever.

These expandable "rooms" could include a dining room and pop-up bedroom(s).

When it's time to go, pull things inside and button up the walls. Neat.

Saves on windows and doors too!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 22, 2005, 04:38:58 PM
Why stop with one folded section?  Make it  from lightweight materials- aluminum sheeting -foam board- light weight wood paneling- light steel tube or aluminum tube framing- first thing hinged is the roof then the wall to the outer roof edge (hinge at bottom when folded down) then end walls fold out of wall section being hinged at the sides

I'm going to make a door for my garage -above ground that is counterweighted to lift for my big truck and make a roof.  It should look like a mountain when closed.  To the Bat Cave, Robin.

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Mark_Chenail on July 22, 2005, 05:04:37 PM
I found this a very intrigueing exercise but would like to point out that most of the designs posted are aimed at the young skinny nimble and able-bodied.  :D  As I am confined to a wheelchair and plus-sized into the bargain, I decided to see what I could design all on one level and as accessible as possible.  That meant NO steps, ladders, lofts for sleeping.  So here are two designs.  The first is a simple minded shed built as a pole building.

(http://tinypic.com/99dnw9.gif)

The second is a bit  more upmarket and designed
for a slab. Its a bit over 200 sq.ft with the bumpout.

(http://tinypic.com/99dppt.gif)

Feel free to send suggestions and ask questions if my drawings arent clear.  They were done on Paint and converted to gif.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: PEG688 on July 22, 2005, 06:34:45 PM
Quote from: Bart Cubbins .

Hey PEG, are you working on a plan? Was it you who had plans for developing a community of small homes?[/quote

 No on both counts . I don't have a cad program , nor do I know how you all do that computer stuff . 8)   Jee I can barely send e mail  :-[  I can build it if , once you design it , and I can design on paper but not the puter  :(  Amanda's trying to help me with cut and paste , multitple windows , etc . I am learning slowly  ;)  Some great designs your all coming up with  :)  Keep at it , HTBH  ;)PEG
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonsey/downunder on July 22, 2005, 07:54:28 PM
Hi PEG.
Just draw one up on paper and scan it. Once you get that far we can help you get it up on the site.
jonesy
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jens on July 22, 2005, 10:12:42 PM
Bart, I think it was I who started the (at least the most current) idea of a planned small house community.  My wife, my 3 kids, and I have not lived in anything larger than 900 sq feet, and I am sure that with proper planning (Japanese style minimizing, think beds that are cupboards) we could live fairly comfortably in something smaller.  200ft would be out for anything longer than a few months for us, but still possible.  Main problem with such a thing, is planning departments, and financing.  Financers don't want to touch too much under 1000 square feet, and neither do planning departments anymore.  Contractors usually won't either.  The reason is that it doesn't take a whole lot more capital to build a plain 2000 house, than it does for a nice, comfortable, 1000 sq.  All banks and appraisers want to see is square footage, sad, unfortunate, but true in most cases.  

Jaded beyond my years (25),

Jens
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 22, 2005, 10:49:09 PM
Welcome, Mark.  I hope you don't mind, but when I saw your work I re-hosted it at Tiny -pic so it would display here.  It was much too nice to not have it showing.  It seems it should have showed the way you did it, but didn't- I couldn't get it to work that way either.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: PEG688 on July 22, 2005, 11:14:40 PM
Mark   Very cool , 8) you to Glenn for getting it online . 8)   Add some windows down the rake side like the front view  very sweet  8) 8)HTBH  ;)PEG
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jimmy C. on July 23, 2005, 06:09:30 AM
Quote
(http://tinypic.com/99dppt.gif)

[size=16]Feel free to send suggestions and ask questions if my drawings arent clear.  They were done on Paint and converted to gif[/size].


[size=18] Hello, Mark!
This is the most impressive use of the paint program I have ever seen!
[/size]
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Mark_Chenail on July 23, 2005, 12:18:07 PM
Glenn thanks for fixing the pic so they would display.
Im glad everyone likes the designs. :D

Jimmy:  Ive been meaning to learn a new drawing system but never seem to get around to it.  Paint is okay except for diagonal lines and Id really like to be able to do 3-d and perspective.  Doing drawings in paint is a bit like doing petit-point or embroidery.  I just work on the grid and fill in the dots.  LOL.

Ive been doing a lot of small structure designs for people I know on HomesteadingToday.com.  Many of them want something they can put up cheaply and quickly with little skill involved.  Pole structures are perfect for this.  Anyone can build them, they are very tolerant of small mistakes in laying out and can easily be added to or adapted.  At my place in Missouri , we started with an 8x12 garden shed and just kept adding on .  The garden shed has now disappeared inside a nearly 1800sqft house with 5 bedrooms and  4 fireplaces on two levels and plans for just a few more rooms in the future.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 23, 2005, 12:31:12 PM
PEG, I do all my designing on graph paper. I'll have to learn CAD for the final steps but for now paper works fine. If I've got something worthwhile I want to save or send to someone, I just snap a digital photo. As long as you can do that and email it, one of us can put it online for you.

Jens, sorry for the mixup. You must have some ideas then... will we get to see them??
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 23, 2005, 12:38:04 PM
Mark, I really like that second house, especially the gable-end view. The bath in the second house is quite a bit bigger than the one in the first. If you shrunk it down, you'd probably get under the 200 sqft limit.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 23, 2005, 12:56:04 PM
Bart;

I've been trying for a couple of hours to lay out your design in 3DHA and, alas, I've come to the conclusion that it can't be built :( If you use real fixture sizes etc. it just won't go. I'm bummed - I really liked the layout.

Interestingly, my best attempt also came out at about 250 sq. ft, just like the one I did on page 4. That includes bump outs. Even so, I don't think it's livable - too crowded and too many narrow points in the traffic flow.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on July 23, 2005, 03:26:58 PM
Hi there David,

I assume you're talking about the bathroom. The key to making it work will be to keep the shower as small as possible. I suspect that 3DHA might not give you a very large selection to choose from. Here is one that is 31"x31"...

http://www.maax.com/en/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?CodeCategory=B&Brand=7&ProductType=10&Product=900

The bathroom as designed has inside dimensions of 64" long by 56" wide. Note that the plan I put up is not accurate as it shows 2x6 walls (what Chapin used) instead of the 2x4 that I'd recommend. The 64" length less the 31" shower leaves 33" for the vanity/sink... plenty of space.

The 56" width less the 31" shower leaves 25" for the toilet. That's a bit tight, 28" would be better. However, I think it's adequate. If you wanted a bit more space, there is still 1 sq ft available. I wanted to keep the exterior dimensions on 1' increments, but the 1 sq ft would allow you to expand the width by 2" if you wanted. Another option would be to bump a couple inches further into the living room.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 23, 2005, 05:04:29 PM
Actually, the first moment I knew I was in trouble was in trying to lay out the kitchen appliances along the wall. They ran waaay over.

Shortly to post my take on your design. It's different ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on July 23, 2005, 07:47:21 PM
I think I like that first house a bit better, Mark.

By the way, my kitchen is a couple of inches less than 8' long.  With a dual-power refrigerator with separate freezer door, three-burner stove with a small oven, a double sink, one of which stays covered up with a cutting board--travel trailers and RV's typically have 6" of counter space in the kitchen.  Hot water heater is tucked behind the fridge--access from the outside. There's got a fan type vent over the stove with a light, a microwave over that.  And a nice kitchen window over the sink.

Cabinets over and under the sink.  Fuse and inverter are under the stove.

The bathroom door opens against the refrigerator.  I can sit on the dinette and rest my feet on the refrigerator door.  

(just sign me "living in 200 sf")  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 23, 2005, 08:12:10 PM
Will your layout allow you to reach the beer from the bathroom, Amanda ???  To me this would be an important feature. ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 23, 2005, 09:26:10 PM
We have been getting some very interesting designs here boys and girls!

If I get some time tomorrow I will copy some of them over to the Gallery pages.

One of the things that has been eating up my time today is a very interesting sketching program that would be great (and fairly easy to use) for this design problem. It's called Sketch UP http://www.sketchup.com.

I got an email early today from Stewart Brand (Whole Earth Catalog) who is designing a small house for himself using this program and is very excited about its potential. It is sure easier and more fluid than any CAD program I have used.

While expensive they have great video tutorials and a free trail period that would allow you to design a couple of 200 sf houses before the trial runs out. It's 9:20 pm here and I've been viewing the tutorials for about an hour. Very powerful, easy to use (everyone says that - this one looks like it might be true) and runs on both PCs and Macs.

Try out the thing called sandbox where you can dynamically shape the terrain of the site and then extrude the house into it. This is a very difficult thing to do in CAD.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jens on July 23, 2005, 09:35:48 PM
In your bathroom layouts, don't forget that a sink does not have to be standard sized.  I have a sink waiting for a project, that is about 8 by 10 by 6, and would work well just tucked up close to the wall.  What about a bathroom sink located just behind the kitchen sink, so that you open a small rectangular door in the bath (under the mirror), and swivel the kitchen sink around to use it in the bathroom?  Could be interesting, fun, and save 30 bucks.  Really all a bathroom dink is used for is shaving and brushing teeth.  Also consider omitting the sink altogether, and just using the kitchen sink instead.  A small fold down table under a mirror in the lav would keep the wife happy with her hair dryer.  

Bart, I don't have too many ideas written down, and can't find any of them right now.  I am in the process of finishing my whole house remodel, and selling, and getting rid of 99.9% of our stuff so that we can buy and move to a fine wine vinyard in South America.  I should have free time in a couple of weeks (maybe sooner) to get something scanned.  One of my designs is for a 10 by 12, with a loft, and two other beds.  Living (living room and dining) would be outside, as there would be no room for it once there is a tiny kitchen and bath inside.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 24, 2005, 12:06:20 AM
John; I was wondering:
1. How expensive is "expensive"?

2. Is it as easy to get started with as 3DHA? (Hopefully, not nearly as buggy and with more features too!)

I have another house, inspired by Bart's, that I'm going to put up - just as soon as I get a few more bugs out of the design. I figure if I tell 3DHA enough #@%@#!!!! times that I want something 12' long, it won't magically and silently change it to 11'6" or 12'4" - or 177'2"!!!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on July 24, 2005, 06:11:56 PM
Glen, you could hang the door so it opened against the dinette instead of the door.  Still be a bit iffy about reaching a beer, though, because the refrigerator door opens against the bathroom door instead of against the stove.  And unless you cooked less than I do, changing that would be even more annoying.

Nothing I'd call great design there, decidedly not, what's the phrase, universal design, but fine for one fairly able-bodied person.

Interestingly, the bathroom has a exahust fan and in order to get air flow throughout the trailer  that door does not extend to either the floor or ceiling.  I put in a cat door when I moved the cats here, but found that they mostly preferred to slide under the door.

Ty from one of those TV decorating programs has a book about how he made his house liveable (it's on the remainder tables).  He used what looks like a pretty inexpensive stainless steel bowl for a bathroom sink.  That might work fine in a bathroom, but strikes me as iffy for a kitchen sink, with banging pots and pans. On the other hand it has a rim and was pretty easy to put in.

$500 bucks to purchase Sketchup.  Both Windows and Mac support, either the Mac version comes with a few more features, or it's the poor relation.  No Linux that I can see.

Is the "free trial version" full-featured?  Sometimes they're not.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 24, 2005, 09:12:17 PM
I noticed that in the Sketchup case studies, many refered to additional expensive software to achieve all the effects shown. Also, the trial is only 8 hours long! Yikes!

3DHA has many (many!) flaws, but for what it costs, that makes up for a lot!

I've looked into a program called DesignWorkshop that ranges from free to $9.95 on CD with extras, to $19.95 on CD with more extras and textures. Also available are a $100 "classic" package and a $480 "Pro' package. Results, when used with an online rendering service are impressive:
(http://www.artifice.com/gallery_rad/horne_stair.jpg)

This is a graphic, not real life! You can get unlimited rendering for $19.95/mo.

There is a learning curve with the software that I have not really had the time or motivation to spend going through, but there is what seemed to be a comprehensive beginner's tutorial.

http://www.artifice.com/

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: JRR on July 25, 2005, 06:20:06 AM
... Bet it's easier to first build the building and then take a photo!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 25, 2005, 09:50:37 PM
I am hoping we can find some sort of easy to use software that will allow us to exchange and develop plans for simple houses. So far 3DHA ver 3 is hard to beat.

SketchUP is $500 but the free download gives you 8 hours of cumulative time and the video tutorials are not counted in that time.

I wonder if a plan in SketchUp where someone just wanted to move some windows around and extend the wall length 4' could be modified in a few hours by a newbie.

I think I'll need to play a bit more with it. So much to learn!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: mark brown on July 26, 2005, 02:35:20 PM
a few years ago i used a program called "small blueprint"  it had walls, doors and windows and was free on the net.  I have googled but can not find ity again.  it was easy to down load and use and was on a small 16 x 24 grid.

Mark
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on July 27, 2005, 04:04:42 PM
Mono - A Cottage for 1

(http://tinypic.com/9ihgu0.jpg)

Floorplan
Either it's because I'm unfamiliar with some of the nuances of construction/home design or some idiosyncracies of 3DHA, but the building outline was drawn at first as 10' x 20', but as you can see it slipped a bit to 20'4" x 10'2". Nothing that can't be put right when proper plans are drawn up, and without changing the design. This yields (excluding bumpouts) exactly 200 sq. ft. The bumpouts account for another ~20 sq. ft. and the  other 5 is due to the main diminsion slippage.

The chair illustrated is almost a love seat, or at least a "chair and a half". The shower is only 30"x36" and might require that the bumpout for the sink shrink a little to fit a standard 36"x36" shower stall.

(http://tinypic.com/9ihheh.jpg)

Front Elevation
The roof is intended to be all one surface, but 3DHA has trouble with that - or at least I have trouble getting 3DHA to do what I want. If one sizes the walls over the open area to exactly the height of the loft area, one edge of the roof will dive under the other and it's a total disaster.

I've figured out one more tweak since this was done, but it means loosing the small round window to the left of the sliding doors. What you gain in return is a stacked full sized washer/dryer! That's worth it to me. The ladder also gets moved to almost exactly under the ridge line, opposite the sink (one would step off the ladder to the right to gain the loft).

(http://tinypic.com/9ihj15.jpg)

Loft floor plan
The loft features 30" sidewalls and that's a "long twin" sized bed. Good for a guest, a meditation room or a child. The loft has a grand total of 110 sq. ft. of space (10' x 11'), but I don't know how much of that is 5' or higher headroom.

All in all, a cozy, perhaps too cozy, little place. A guest for a weekend could be easily accomodated, but this is not a place for most couples in my opinion.

I think you could develop this easily from John's Enchilada plans.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jgjones on July 28, 2005, 02:30:40 PM
My first post here...

I've been enjoying the great plans and ideas in this topic, and thought I'd throw something in:

(http://home.comcast.net/~jgj252/SmallHouse.jpg)

Ten foot sidewalls with a loft under a 12/12 roof. Composting toilet, and perhaps solar panels and solar water heater on roof and over front porch. Gas wall heater, maybe. It has a few problems, such as lack of open floor space, but I wouldn't mind living there. I think. :)

Out of curiosity, I contacted the Thurston County building department (here in Olympia, WA) and asked if a *habitable* structure no larger than 200 square feet required a permit, but have not yet received a response. Their FAQ is a bit vague, implying that only storage sheds and the like can be permit exempt, regardless of size.

-Jim
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on July 28, 2005, 02:34:47 PM
Great plans, David and jg jones...  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on August 01, 2005, 04:10:48 AM
The watchtower is another 200sq ft cottage, inspired by David's first cottage drawing. It is designed as accommodation for a single agile person. I have drawn it with full size appliances so a bit more space could be gained using smaller stuff. The loft has access via a ladder on the wall and has a built in bed that would have storage under. There is possibly room for a small desk up there as well. Headspace is about 6' at the eaves with the pitched ceiling providing plenty in the center of the room. The deck is only a meter  (39") wide but extends almost all the way round. The front could be extended to whatever size desired to provide an extension to the living area. Large bifold or slider doors would open the house up to this decked area. Shower of choice would be a floor level or stepless to make the best use of the bathroom floor space.
Although this plan meets the criteria, I think it would have a problem getting past the permit because of the large roof area.
jonesy

(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/watchtowersmall.jpg)

http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/watchtower.jpg
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on August 01, 2005, 04:33:15 PM
Jim:

Nice design. The table could be a two part unit that slides out (and in) to give more open floor space. With the composter and a rainwater collection system this could be a stand alone remote unit.

Jonsey:

Love the wrap around porch and the watchtower loft. An option might be to run the counter on down along side the wall to the double door giving a bit more open floor area (w/ maybe a window over the dining counter).

David:

Your Mono Cottage has a real bedroom with more privacy than most of the other designs.

Nice work everyone!
Title: Update on PRIZES
Post by: jraabe on August 01, 2005, 05:06:01 PM
This is turning into an interesting contest and it is going to be difficult to pick a single winner. What do you think would be most fair? I've thought of setting up an on-line voting system, perhaps someone knows a tool to do this?

I've decided to add two books as additional prizes (2nd prize - "Home Work" by Lloyd Kahn
and 3rd prize - "The Septic System Owner's Manual", by Lloyd Kahn, Blair Allen and Julie Jones). These are both great books.

Also, anyone who posts an independently derived design that meets the general guidelines of the contest will get a three month subscription to the open source plans and downloadable design tools at PlanHelp.com.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on August 02, 2005, 02:43:51 AM
Good point John,
I have replaced the drawing above with a new extended counter version. The counter has also been made a bit wider, 600mm (2') that should give a better area for eating. The idea with the deck was to give a bit of extra storage space, maybe an outside washing machine and hanging space for wet weather gear and such.
The overhang could also be a carport for the pushbike, because lets face it, anyone living in a cottage this small is bound to be frugal, and won't own an automobile.   :D
The coffee table could be built as a storage box for those odds and ends, and the futon (drawn full size) as a guest bed. The trapdoor to the loft would need to be hinged on the room side. The door would have some sort of overcenter lock that formed a safety barrier, this to stop those sleepwalkers from flattening the occupants below. The loft bed I would build to just under the windowsill. Now you can spend those lazy Sunday mornings in bed, watching the neighbor mow the lawn.  ;D
There is also a small hanging space at the bed head.
jonesy

BTW, Maybe you could just commandeer a neighbor as judge for the comp.

Title: Re: Update on PRIZES
Post by: Daddymem on August 02, 2005, 03:09:30 AM
Quote
This is turning into an interesting contest and it is going to be difficult to pick a single winner. What do you think would be most fair? I've thought of setting up an on-line voting system, perhaps someone knows a tool to do this?


Try setting up a poll within this board.  http://www.pollhost.com/  supposedly is one way to do it and I have seen it set up on other boards.  I think there is some code to go into YABB that will allow users to set up their own polls within YABB.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: rwalter on August 02, 2005, 10:09:44 AM
Well ok here is my first shot at this. Maybe I'll see if I can try some more designs. I tried to keep the design simple so that the ordinary non-construction worker could build this easily, therefore I didn't include any bump outs and I tried to keep the roofs pitched as low as possible. The shed roofs are pitched at 10/12 and 4/12. The filing cabinet placed in the loft stands 6'6". The ladder is actually a bookcase modifed. I have three copies of 3d architect, versions 1.0, 4.0 and 6.0. Version 6.0 is junk, version 1.0 is limited and version 4.0 is ok. This was done with version 4.0.

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq2.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq1.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq3.jpg)
(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq4.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq5.jpg)
(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq6.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq7.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq8.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/200sq9.jpg)




I hope you like it.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: spinnm on August 02, 2005, 07:52:29 PM
Sweet proportions Jonsey.  I'm a sucker for a hip roof. ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on August 02, 2005, 09:37:00 PM
Thanks Shelley,
I really can't take all the credit on this one; it was inspired by David's first cottage. I was impressed by the watchtower look and just developed it from there. I must say I am having a lot of fun with this project and there are some nifty ideas and designs popping up. Trying to cram any sort of living space into 200 sq. ft has been a real challenge.
I can see a lot of potential in these designs and if not used as full-time liveins they certainly would make great getaway or camping cabins. Not constrained by the permit criteria the designs have a real potential to develop into great little homes. Take rwalters design as a for instance. This is a little pearl, stretched a bit it would make a great little home. In that landscape, his roof design really works well. I could see something coming out of that design. The same with all the others who have contributed. Keep at it you guys, there is some real potential in your designs and I don't envy John the job of picking a winner out of this lot. :)
jonesy.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: rwalter on August 03, 2005, 09:43:30 AM
Well I am working on a second design and I am wondering what constitutes "living space" when they calculate the square footage in a loft area? Here is a very ruff design that I am working on it uses 10' side walls and a 12/12 pitched roof. I am concerned about the loft being counted.

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/2ndtry.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/2ndtry1.jpg)

(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/2ndtry2.jpg)
(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/2ndtry3.jpg)
(http://users.adelphia.net/~rwalter/2ndtry4.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on August 03, 2005, 09:47:16 AM
Sweet!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: spinnm on August 04, 2005, 07:04:31 AM
Here's the definition from NM.  Just printed it off the other day.  Other states may word it differently.

"A building permit shall not be required for a one story detached accessory building used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses and similar uses, provided the floor area does not exceed 200 square feet."

So, that would indicate the loft is a no-no.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on August 04, 2005, 07:10:58 AM
Time for a day bed or futon....
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on August 04, 2005, 07:25:33 AM
Don't know about the non-permitted stuff, but for some purposes in some areas the floor area that counts starts at 4 feet or so of headroom.

Speaking of teensy places....  In particular, look at the all-in-one bathroom of this small Airstream.  I just noticed, it really has more than 6" of counter space.  Of course they got that by putting in a little round sink.  I got that by putting a cutting board over the second sink.  You might look at the price too, it's here:

http://www.airstream.com/product_line/travel_trailers/intccd_plans.html

Decidedly not universal design (is that the right word?) but then I've never seen a travel trailer that was, bad enough for someone with a leg in a walking cast for six weeks.  In other words, we are all S.O.L if we decide to have something as minor sounding as bunion surgery.

(http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/travel_trailers/images/international_ccd/22/plan_ccd_22.gif)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on August 09, 2005, 09:53:04 AM
Because it turns out that I will be on vacation when this contest is scheduled to end (8-15), please feel free to tweak or post any additional ideas or designs.

Prizes will be awarded after the 22nd of August!

PS - rwalter - nice design. Putting the stairway outside is a clever idea for a small loft.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on August 15, 2005, 10:26:00 AM
Only 1 more week to submit designs... :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on August 17, 2005, 10:30:42 PM
Ok, my official entries, drawn up with dimensions and everything. All three versions are 199 sq ft excluding the window seat and patios.

First off, the "classic" shack... not much different except that I used 2x4 exterior walls and 2x3 for the few interior walls...

(http://tinypic.com/ao8g77.png)

Next is a variation on the original. By rearranging the entry I was able to free up enough space to squeeze in an alternating tread stair. That should make the loft area a lot more convenient to use...

(http://tinypic.com/ao8j0m.png)

This last one was an attempt to cut down on the number of corners, though I don't really believe in the "fewer corners = easier to build" theory. More important in my view is that it simplifies the roof to a single gable covering the whole thing including patios. This one also has a reasonably sized closet by the front door...

(http://tinypic.com/ao95yw.png)

For that last version, the roof ridge could run either front to back or side to side. I would probably have it go side to side, giving a bit more headroom, and so the loft access would move to just in front of the window seat. The ladder would have to fold or roll out of the way when not in use. The roof of the window seat could be used as a small balcony.

Here's what it looks like on the back. This shows 10-foot sidewalls and a steep 13.5 in 12 pitch roof...

(http://tinypic.com/ao98j9.png)

And finally, a section view. It shows that for most people there would be adequate head room (HA!!) below the stairs.

(http://tinypic.com/ao97x0.png)

The section also shows my solution for where to put the laundry... stick it in the "basement". As long as there's three feet of clearance below the floor joists, there's room for an under-counter front-load washer and dryer. Another option would be to have a large capacity television lift to raise the washer/dryer (or dresser or tv) out of the crawlspace when needed.

Hope you like it!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on August 17, 2005, 10:41:06 PM
Cool, Bart.   ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on August 22, 2005, 10:39:36 AM
As the baby boomer population ages and a large portion of us have not planned well for retirement, perhaps several of these could be used as "granny flats" out behind our generous kid's houses....  We've joked about building mom a yard barn out back for years - it's looking more and more like a good idea.  Help for mom when she gets older and needs it, supervision for the grandson when he needs it.

Close to family, yet privacy and our own place...
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: rwalter on August 30, 2005, 09:49:29 PM
Just curious what design won? I think all the designs were great and I had a lot of fun playing with the designs. I hope everyone enjoyed it as much as I did.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: joshua on September 01, 2005, 10:23:13 AM
This may not be the best place to recommend books dealing with small homes, but i just read 2 books from my local library that may be of some interest to you.
1) Azby brown's Small spaces : stylish ideas for making more of less in the home
2) Tara McLellan's Small spaces, beautiful kitchens
       Brown's book mainly uses examples from Japanese homes both modern and traditional. Good flip even if you don't have plans to build right away.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on September 01, 2005, 11:48:09 AM
I was wondering who won too...? :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on September 03, 2005, 06:03:37 PM
While we're waiting.....

I thought I'd post a picture of a--looks like really very old--Serbian tiny building.

The filling here, I think, is clay and chaff (and probably sand in with the clay).  Don't know anything about the photographer here, but another list got a report from someone in Serbia looking for cob buildings.  He didn't count this kind of thing.

(http://icons.wunderground.com/data/wximagenew/s/svetslike/654.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on September 04, 2005, 06:32:22 PM
Tomorrow I'm going to Snag the entries from the contest and post the comments of our judges.

Things are a bit behind schedule as one of the judges (a very talented designer/builder) was rushed into surgery.

John

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on September 06, 2005, 12:58:57 PM
Anyone we know?  Not you, we hope....
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on September 06, 2005, 03:06:48 PM
No, Bob Arndt, a local architectural dropout who has built some wonderful houses.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on September 06, 2005, 11:52:01 PM
[size=18]Winners are Announced![/size]

Click here for the one page overview:
http://cpdesigncontest.blogspot.com/

And here for the full article:
http://www.countryplans.com/contest.html

Congratulations to everyone who worked on this. It was a great exercise for all of us!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on September 07, 2005, 06:35:42 AM
Great choice.  I liked them all, but was very impressed with that one the first time I saw it.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bart_Cubbins on September 07, 2005, 03:18:04 PM
It was a fun contest. What I found really interesting was that the challenge seemed pretty cut and dried, and yet everyone seemed to have a slightly different interpretation of it.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: mark_chenail on September 08, 2005, 10:31:49 AM
I'd just like to thank the judges for choosing my design.  I've been tinkering with small house designs like that for a long time and its nice to know Im on the right track.  As John mentioned in his blog, in light of the recent destruction caused by Katrina, there is a definite need for quick simple housing designs.  Maybe we will be hearing from FEMA any day now. ;)
Whens the next contest John?  Maybe a design for something particularly suited to the  southern coast or at least a location subject to floods.  One of the interesting comments I heard about the destruction of Katrina was that  many of the houses that survived the storm surge and flooding were traditional vernacular designs built on high piers or stilts that allowed the water to flow through them rather than  presenting a low wall that just got swept away or  ended up at the bottom of a pile of floating debris.  Maybe we could turn our minds to plans for simple easily built full scale houses that address the particular problems raised by coastal living and the threats of hurricanes and floods.
Thanks again.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: JRR on September 08, 2005, 06:35:29 PM
Congratulations, Mark ... and I like your request for another brain session (i.e., contest).  

In particular, what's the best plan for New Orleans?  

Rebuild what was there ... with stronger, or more, levees?  

Build a new community of storm & flood-resistant houses?

Build with many more canals ... each canal at or near sea level ... separating rows of high and dry houses and streets.  (Think Venice, Italy.)

Or, let Mother Nature reclaim her wetlands?

????
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dan on September 09, 2005, 10:06:40 PM
Personally I would like to start a movement of "Free the Mississippi from the Tyranny of the Corp of Engineers"!  While I feel for the people caught up in this mess, they never should have been there.   Mankind has great hubris, and the only thing stronger levees will do is make for a much greater disaster when, not if, they fail.

Rant off.

Great designs all, I am much impressed by the creativity of this group.

Dan
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: rendek4 on September 10, 2005, 07:37:43 AM
I hear you Dan. The North Carolina Outer Banks used to be largely undeveloped with the occasional fisherman's shack. Now you've got multimillion dollar houses being put up left and right, only to be eventually damaged or washed away by the constant hurricanes. A friend's father bought several acres after WWII for $25. No one wanted beach front real estate. Obviously it turned out to be a wise investment when tiny lots are now going for $750,000 and up! It's just crazy. I might be wrong but I think these people are only able to get flood insurance through the feds- no insurance companies will touch insuring these properties. They've been burned far too often. Way too many hurricanes in our region.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on September 10, 2005, 07:42:12 PM
Good work!

(Somebody talks about vacation homes on the Outer Banks, I think about Portsmouth, just south of Okracoke, where a prosperous freight transfer operation--deep water to shallow draft--disappeared in a hurricane in the early 1800, I think.  Plenty of both churches and bars there)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonsey/downunder on September 10, 2005, 08:59:20 PM
My congratulations to Mark and Bart. Great work guys. I to found it an interesting challenge and great fun. To all that entered plans, well done.
My best wishes also, to all that have been affected by the storms and flooding over there.
jonesy.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on September 13, 2005, 09:48:23 AM
Thanks to all who worked on this. There will be another "contest/design problem" — your suggestions and ideas are appreciated.

When I gave the blog link to Ross Chapin (a local architect who's house was a starting concept for one of the winners)  his comment was, "Now, we need to get some funding to get these built and in use."

I'm planning to get the prizes out today. Anyone who submitted a design or posting to the contest should send their email address to contest@planhelp.com for a special bonus prize.

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on September 13, 2005, 08:26:48 PM
I'd like to thank Glen for making it possible for me to do the designs that I did. I enjoyed it greatly.

Have the critiques of the designs been posted yet?

I will say my thanks and pass on the bonus. I'm in the process, this week, of moving into a 225 sq. ft. "apartment" on my way to the 12 sq. ft. box. They tell me I have a year or two before that happens though.

BTW, I don't think any sane person could actually LIVE in a 200 sq. ft. "house"! It's just TOO SMALL (but the rent, meals and maid service are good! ;))
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on September 13, 2005, 11:05:25 PM
Glad you're enjoying the designing, David.  Let us know what you think of living in 225 sq. ft. and don't be in a hurry to try 12 sq. ft.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on September 13, 2005, 11:23:15 PM
Nope, I'm doing the "do not go gentle into that good night, rage, rage, scream against the dark" thing, when I'm not squeezing another drop out of the peach. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on September 14, 2005, 06:05:00 PM
For anyone who hasn't seen it here are the winners:

Click here for the one page overview:
http://cpdesigncontest.blogspot.com/

And here for the full article:
http://www.countryplans.com/contest.html

Feel free to forward those links to anyone who might be interested in tiny houses.

Actually I think I could live (maybe not for years and years) in one of these 200sf designs. I wouldn't have much of a social life, admittedly. They are really one person houses. But in a mild climate with open decks and a yard to look at it could be much better than some of the trailers and RVs many people call home.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: DavidLeBlanc on September 14, 2005, 08:43:26 PM
I noticed this in the article:

"(This was done in San Francisco after the 1906 earthquake and a few of those tiny houses are still in use.)"

A good many of those tiny houses were built as love nests for wealthy men's mistresses. There's actually a section of town where they're all clustered together - I forget the name of the neighborhood. I've been in a couple when I lived in SF. The ladies where long gone, but they're cute and cozy little spaces. ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: barb moore on October 07, 2005, 05:08:04 AM
I realize this is an older thread and that the contest is over but I have a plan for a small cabin with a 16'x16' footprint that I designed several years ago. It is not fancy nor is it a work of art, but it makes very good use of space so I thought I would share it. My husband and I (both over 50) needed everything on one level and a simple enough design that we could easily build ourselves. I do not have a website but you may view the floorplan at

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rubyslpr@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/6adc&.dnm=eb6d.jpg&.src=ph

barb
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: barb moore on October 07, 2005, 05:14:59 AM
I love Lester Walker's The Tiny Book of Tiny Houses. My favorite design is his 12'x20' "campground cottage." Re RVs and trailers: we had a mobile home but the weather here can be severe and I never felt safe there. A small house on a solid foundation makes me feel much more secure, even with only a fraction of the living space.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on October 07, 2005, 06:51:15 AM
Nice work Barb!

A 16x16 footprint makes for a very workable tiny house.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: bil2054 on October 10, 2005, 02:30:25 PM
Nice design!
Two details I particularly like are the murphy bed, and eliminating the bathroom sink.  I always thought the vanity sink a space wasting redundancy in a small house... who says you can't brush your teeth in the kitchen? ;)
BTW, I noticed with interest the latest Harbor Freight catalog has a Murphy desk/table in it.  I wouldn't buy one, but maybe it says something about a trend in living spaces?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Edward L Rich on October 11, 2005, 09:17:10 AM
Quote
This: http://tinypic.com/95y7sx.jpg, which is Bart's floorplan, shows up here as a broken image. It won't load/display in IE either! :(

(http://tinypic.com/95y7sx.jpg)

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on October 11, 2005, 02:05:44 PM
I'm using Firefox and it seems to display fine for me, Edward.  Sometimes tinypic has a problem.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tjm73 on October 11, 2005, 02:25:47 PM
I had a similar problem on my MAC Mini at home while using MAC's Safari browser, but I just displayed the image in a new window and it was fine.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: nimba100 on January 08, 2006, 12:01:44 PM
I have been looking at small houses for a while now and actually just came on this site a couple of days ago.  I thought the designs for the under 200 sq. ft. house were great.  Now what I want to know is when the building plans be out for these houses? :D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on January 08, 2006, 12:11:59 PM
Welcome, Nimba.  I think it's one of those  WYSIWYG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYSIWYG) things.

Here is one John posted free.   Free 14x14 (http://www.countryplans.com/Downloads/14x14.PDF)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: nimba100 on January 08, 2006, 12:20:52 PM
I thought that might be the case.  I was interested particurly in the 2nd place design and wondered about the dimensions on it.  Probably the foundation and roof wouldn't be any problem to build or design yourself. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: bartholomew on January 08, 2006, 12:52:23 PM
Hey Nimba, glad you like the design. I didn't take it any farther than what you've seen. Been too busy working on the plans for the cabin I actually intend to build (a whopping 400 sqft main floor). I did put a bit of thought into it, though, so feel free to email me with any questions (click the left-most icon at the bottom of this message). Also, please post any modifications you make and photos if you do build it, thanks.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on January 08, 2006, 01:03:40 PM
To find it quicker- a link to the page with dimensions for Bart's Shack.

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1121008066/105
Title: The solution for beds is NOT LOFTS BUT GO UP!!!
Post by: parrishnut(Guest) on January 21, 2006, 12:07:55 PM
The solution for a bed is to have a retractable ceiling bed....
best idea from HGTV... it lowers from the ceiling.. no stairs needed!!!!
See:reno of Leslie Hoffman.. I emailed her on how to do it but she never answered.. anyone have an idea..

http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_design_small_space/article/0,1785,HGTV_3572_4164802,00.html

also
several patents for ceiling beds...
suspended sleeping platform patent 5943714
and space saving bed 5502850.

do a google for these and you will find  a site that has the drawings...

also
a small great kitchen can be accomplished by using a 21" liberrer fridge..
2 burner miele cooktop and 1 drawer fischer and paykal dw below...
miele even makes a 24"oven....

all this info I used in my aprox 298sq foot  NYC apt....

p.s.
If anyone figures out how to do this ceiling bed please email me....
Stephanie
at
reserve@31islandview.com
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Texan lost in cali on January 21, 2006, 04:49:16 PM
You might take a look at "toy Haulers" I have seen many of them with two queen size beds that electrically come down from the ceiling on a track and lock into place when they are down.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: PEG688 on January 21, 2006, 04:56:20 PM
 How about Murphy beds? Could that work for ya , (http:// http://www.americanmurphybed.com/plain_white_bed3_small.jpg )    

  (http://www.americanmurphybed.com/plain_white_bed_small.jpg )

  Good luck , PEG
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on January 23, 2006, 01:43:15 PM
parrishnut - I have seen the ceiling bed in several Paris apartments.  Haven't been able to find it either.  By the looks of this woman's bathroom, she got most of her ideas in Paris.....
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: j(Guest) on March 03, 2006, 08:04:36 PM
One thing I notice is that all of the buildings are very Western, with lots of space being wasted on furniture.  Here in Japan your living/dining/sleeping area are all one.  Just an open room with a tatami mat and storage under the floor, or in a closet for a futon and clothes etc.  A table folds up when not in use that's used for dining/entertaining.  A small room with everyone sitting on the floor around a table can hold 10 people easily.  Then, when everyone goes home, the table gets folded up and the futons come out, an extra futon for guest, and even a sliding door to separate the rooms is doable.  the only thing you need is a small kitchen and bathroom, otherwis all activities can be done in one room.   It's been done in Japan for years and 200feet is actually a good size apartment in downtown Tokyo!

j
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on March 03, 2006, 09:10:06 PM
Thanks for that information J.  Hope to see you around the forum -- you could be our official Japan representative. :)

It is always interesting to see how things are done differently in other countries.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: j(Guest) on March 04, 2006, 03:06:02 PM
Thanks,  I'm glad I found this forum.  VERY relevant in Japan.

j
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on March 06, 2006, 07:26:41 AM
I found a source of built-in furniture at Up and Away's web site.  They don't do beds yet, but are working on them.  Right now they do shelves, tv set ups and other things that disappear up into the ceiling.  You might want to contact them if you're interested in a ceiling bed.  I'll keep looking to see if I can find someone who already does the ceiling bed.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jimmy_Cason on March 06, 2006, 08:08:14 AM
How about a hanging bed that could be tied up against the ceiling when not in use?
http://www.floatingbed.com/about-us.html

(http://www.floatingbed.com/images/indoor-beds/FBinGreatRoom400.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Epiphany on March 06, 2006, 08:11:04 AM
Groovy dude!   :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Daddymem on March 06, 2006, 10:17:20 AM
I'll comment...once I can get my mind from the deep gutter that one put me in.  :D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on March 06, 2006, 07:52:33 PM
Pricey

with patents!

You can get folding foam beds that fold in two (so that a queen sized one folds to 30"x80").

I'm looking for a way to set that more or less against the wall so that it's not dramatically different in height when it's opened--and it rests on a stand.

(and by the way with the Mayan hammocks you lie on the crossways, so it really does have pretty solid back support--people asleep in them don't look like the sailors in their hammocks at the beginning of Master and Commander)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: j(Guest) on March 07, 2006, 02:36:51 AM
Get a Japanese style futon....they fold into thirds  and fit into a closet with blankets, pillows etc.  and aren't expensive, but are very comfortable...if you don't mind sleeping on the floor.

Many people have a slighty raised floor (8-12 inches) that they sit on pillows around a table with guests etc for a living room.  Then, they put away the table in the storage below the raised floor and bring out the bedding etc.  LOTS of storages space is created by having only a slighty raised floor and it creates a feeling of a different room without walls to give a more spacious feeling.  AND it's MUCH cheaper than the hanging circle bed.  :-?

j
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on March 07, 2006, 04:44:25 PM
Not for me.

I remember seeing a book with pictures of real Japanese apartments (Taschen Press, I think, from many years ago, may have been worldwide small living spaces, but decidedly not prettied up for the photographer).  Four foot high stacks of papers and books, etc.  I really could empathize with that pack-rat-ism run amok.  That's what I'm trying to get away from.  

I expect that you have to be really motivated--or trained from birth--to be able to put away the table and haul out the futons.  
There is a table whose pedestal removes, the top lets down to from a (weird size, including a bit short) bed in my (200sf) trailer.  I did it once to see if it worked.  It did.  End of that discussion.

A bit more room and plenty of bookcases make more sense for me.   Especially out in the middle of 30 acres.

But I lived in Hawaii for years--quite used to sleeping on the floor, low tables where you sit on a cushion or just on the floor to use etc..  

A favorite story  :-[ from those days, at least for my friends.  Neighbor needed to borrow a screwdriver, knew I probably had one in the pile of stuff in the middle of my room.  So he came in unobserved, found the screwdriver, but while he was looking saw an record that looked interesting kind of hidden on the bottom of the pile.  So he played it, found it sooooo moving that he burst into tears.  Went looking for someone else who worked in the record store to see if she could get it for him, was told "That is your Christmas present, dummy."
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: j(Guest) on March 09, 2006, 07:44:42 AM
Yeah, it's not for everyone, but it does save space....but with 30 acres....space is not a problem for you.  :o

I grew up on the big island of Hawaii, with no elctricity and an outhouse, with a large pond to supply non potable water and an outdoor shower.  

I'd love to go back to that lifestyle someday...so much simpler and free....someday.

j
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jimmy_Cason on March 09, 2006, 08:24:57 AM
What would an acre of cheap land go for in Hawaii? One that is not a lava bed!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: j(Guest) on March 09, 2006, 09:17:40 AM
Well, it depends on whether or not the land is "fee simple" or not.  Meaning do you own it or are you buying off a lease from the goverment which will expire eventually.  AND is the land deemed agricultural land or not, meaning you're not supposed to build on it.

I grew up on agricultural land way up in the hills so technically I never lived there...and land was cheap.

The Kona side of the big island is expensive and dry and the "prefered" side by some.

The Hilo side is very cheap, but also the rainy side.  It's a wild island with lots of hippies and ex motorcycle gangs etc.  But I suppose you could find a peaceful spot.  I didn't like it and left as soon as possible.  But land on the Hilo side, I've seen for around 20k in the country. (which I preferred)  So, it's cheap, but your neighbors might be really odd and tough to live next to so check them out first.

j
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: j(Guest) on March 09, 2006, 09:18:39 AM
the 20k was for a 3 acre parcel...forgot that part.

j
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: j(Guest) on March 09, 2006, 09:29:33 AM
I take that back...more like 40k-50k for three acres now.  In a somewhat remote area.  Prices went up since I left.  I wouldn't want to live there though.  There are so many much nicer places in the world with much nicer people....just my opinion though.

j
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: StinkerBell(Guest) on April 24, 2006, 06:28:57 PM
Quote
I found this a very intrigueing exercise but would like to point out that most of the designs posted are aimed at the young skinny nimble and able-bodied.  :D  As I am confined to a wheelchair and plus-sized into the bargain, I decided to see what I could design all on one level and as accessible as possible.  That meant NO steps, ladders, lofts for sleeping.  So here are two designs.  The first is a simple minded shed built as a pole building.

(http://tinypic.com/99dnw9.gif)

The second is a bit  more upmarket and designed
for a slab. Its a bit over 200 sq.ft with the bumpout.

(http://tinypic.com/99dppt.gif)
This is wonderful
Feel free to send suggestions and ask questions if my drawings arent clear.  They were done on Paint and converted to gif.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on April 25, 2006, 07:50:23 PM
(contest long over with, doesn't stop us from thinking about 200sf.)

Another person had some health challenges, btw.

Does the second design have a second story with the door over the porch, or is it just huge and gracious inside?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: StinkerBell on April 25, 2006, 09:19:15 PM
I have really enjoyed this thread. I have a few novice questions. Although the homes are tiny (I enjoy space manipulation) some of the plans have many corners in them. Does this not make the build harder and more expensive? and possibly more time consuming when building?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 25, 2006, 09:33:26 PM
Good question and a point that has surfaced here before.  

Yes - it costs more, if you are hiring it out especially, but if you are doing it yourself, aside form taking more time, cost is not too much greater and you have the satisfaction of having what you want.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: bartholomew on April 25, 2006, 10:01:39 PM
Quote
I have really enjoyed this thread. I have a few novice questions. Although the homes are tiny (I enjoy space manipulation) some of the plans have many corners in them. Does this not make the build harder and more expensive? and possibly more time consuming when building?

It doesn't make it more difficult, but it will take longer to build two short walls joined at 90 degrees than it would for one longer wall. It could cost more for materials if you end up wasting material by not taking into account standard material sizes.

Some people will also argue that a squarish box encloses more square footage than an irregular-shaped plan with the same exterior wall length. I'd counter by pointing out that there is more to a house than floor area. Light and views from windows, the spatial arrangement of the rooms, the exterior spaces defined by the outside walls, and exterior curb appeal are also important considerations.

As far as difficulty in building is concerned, the roof framing is the part that often requires the most head-scratching. Keeping the roof to a simple gable or shed(s), without hips or valleys or dormers, will make the house a lot easier to build. Beneath that simple roof you can have both bumpouts and inset areas for porches, allowing the one roof shape to cover both house and porch.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: StinkerBell on April 25, 2006, 10:03:51 PM
Quote
Good question and a point that has surfaced here before.  

Yes - it costs more, if you are hiring it out especially, but if you are doing it yourself, aside form taking more time, cost is not too much greater and you have the satisfaction of having what you want.

I have a small confession here...I love this forum! I personally have 100's if not 1000's of floor designs that I have doodled out. I just love floor plans. My Hubby thinks I am very odd! I love space manipulation yet I am a pack rat. I guess thats what makes me complex.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on April 25, 2006, 10:26:45 PM
Glad you love this forum -- we just love new members who love this forum, --although we are not so hot on ones who hate this forum.   :-/

If only they had the courage to show themselves, possibly we could change their minds. ::)

Well, StinkerBell, ---gotta love that name-----  I can see you are just going to have a bit more complex of a design than some of us simple people. :)

Note that having to spend a bunch of extra time on complicated designs is a form of punishment meted out to complex people --- but then again --- they tend to like it. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Ailsa C. Ek on April 26, 2006, 09:46:46 AM
Well, there is one thing that the 200 sf. houses are good for in the life of a packrat - build one in the back yard as a private refuge and put some of your stuff in it.  DH and I are thinking of building one as a library or as what I've been calling a Poet's Shed - specifically a retreat for me that I can paint whatever weird colors I like and put knick-knacks and my writing desk in and go to to forget about housework and kids and cats and dogs for a while.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: StinkerBell on April 26, 2006, 12:36:50 PM
We have a plan! (lol) At least at this moment in time(subject to change at any moment). I currently live in King Co Wa. We have property in Kettle Falls (what did you say "where is Kettle falls?" It's near Colville..Still no idea....101 miles north of Spokane and 4 miles south of the Canadian border).

We just put a 400 amp Electric box up on our property (woohoo and it passed inspection)We also dug our test holes for perk. It perked!

Ok back to the plan here...We plan to build a 200 sq foot home first. It will also be a guest home. The idea is to understand the permit process (believe it or not the people in Colville are very helpful and it hasnt been difficult at all to work with them). We also want to see if we can build. If it works out we move on to the main small home (about 1200 sq ft). If it doesnt work out we have a great shed and we hire someone to come build the stick frame for us.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on April 26, 2006, 09:14:05 PM
Sounds like a very good plan.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on April 29, 2006, 11:27:50 AM
You're in a nice area there (Kettle Falls (http://www.kettlefalls.com/)) and I've heard that folks are pretty helpful. Best wishes on the project.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: soomb on May 02, 2006, 08:59:33 AM
Greetings!  [smiley=beer.gif] I am a newbie and cant belive I missed out on all these discussions re a small (200sq/ft) cabin.  Having had John's small one room cabin plans on a shelf for a number of years gathering dust, I am finally in a position to act.  Has anyone built homes off of the plans or ideas in the contest?

I am looking at the winning plans as my start for a 240 sq/ft cabin.  I went to 240 to allow for full sheets of plywood for the floor.  I am going on 6 sono tubes with cantilever all around.  I am prone to over build it so there is a chance that all joining will be "glued and screwed".  

I am looking for any and all suggestions from people who have been down this road b4.  My plan is not to run power but to use solar & wind with LP as back up.  I would like suggestions from anyone who has used RV equipment for a cabin or boating experience for the storage and use of nooks and cranies.

This will be a weekend place with occasional week+ vacations planned.

C:\Documents and Settings\default\My Documents\Real Estate\20

The RV rental is too much every time and my wife is not a sleep on the ground type.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: soomb on May 02, 2006, 09:02:54 AM
ps- the "C:\Documents and Settings\default\My Documents\Real Estate\20" is me showing that I dont6 know how to post a pic. little help?
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\default\My Documents\Real Estate\20)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Daddymem on May 02, 2006, 09:05:59 AM
How to information here:
http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1115032671
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on May 02, 2006, 09:18:21 PM
Soomb, you can post from your computer using the attach utility below on the posting composition page.

One pic per posting - point it to your file.

Otherwise follow the info daddymem posted using photobucket as a host for your pics.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: bartholomew on May 02, 2006, 09:19:15 PM
If you have only one pic to post and it isn't too big, you can post it using the Browse button below where you type your message....
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: bartholomew on May 02, 2006, 09:21:23 PM
Doh! You're always sneaking in there Glenn and answering questions while I'm typing up my response.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on May 02, 2006, 10:23:28 PM
That's why I get the big bucks, Bart.

Your answer did make it much more clear.  I'm sometimes a bit lazy :-/
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Sassy on May 03, 2006, 09:30:10 AM
Bart, you probably haven't noticed it yet, but Glenn can sometimes be somewhat of a "know-it-all"...  ::) ;D  Sassy  (did I say that???  :o)   BTW... he thinks I'm rather opinionated, myself...  ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on May 04, 2006, 08:58:01 AM
But Sassy, I thought it was a requirement for posting here--and in fact, one of the nice things about it--a large gathering of opinionated know-it-alls capable of commenting on anything but who manage to get along quite nicely, thank you.

(could I possibly have been including myself in that description?  Uuuuhhhhh, yes)

I think pictures have to be somewhere on the web, since what you're really posting is a link.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jochen on May 20, 2006, 06:06:53 AM
Ah, thanks for that! What would the world be without a little spam every day!

LoL
Jochen
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: nandajor on May 20, 2006, 10:21:50 AM
 ;DSassy, Amanda...I had to laugh when I read the "opinionated" remark. Just recently, the hubby and I were coming home from a get together with several old friends. He frowned at me and said, "you are so #!*! opinionated". He was referring to the fact that some rather don't go there with friends, taboo subject had come up and my mouth just flat ran away with me. You know, kinda like a horse that got slapped on the behind.  Anyway, we all have opinions, the trick is to know when and how to express them, without stomping all over the opinions of others.  Seems that the folks here, have a pretty good idea how to do that. Nanda

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on May 20, 2006, 10:50:47 PM
Sometimes it's hard for me to do that Nanda-- sometimes I revise my posts a half a dozen times-- Sorry to the unlucky ones who see the original versions.  Sometimes I never do quite get my foot out of my mouth. :-/
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: SusieQ on September 27, 2006, 07:04:28 PM
I stumbled across your forum about a year ago, while looking for ideas for transforming our garage into a clubhouse for my husband.  I have to laugh at the other posts, because I also am a "floorplan junkie."  I think it started after I bought my husband Lester Walker's "A Tiny House of My Own."

I was just wondering if anyone ever considered a cost-efficient house plan?  I always was fascinated with the idea of making a tiny house with the least amount of waste, i.e., using full sized materials without cuts.  

Keep the great ideas coming!  I love sneaking a peek at the new posts whenever I get a chance, and I'm looking forward to seeing the submissions for your newest contest.

SusieQ.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on September 27, 2006, 09:45:12 PM
Welcome to the forum, SusieQ.

There is usually something interesting going on here. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on September 29, 2006, 04:27:10 PM
Here's my idea for another contest, although I think it would have to be actual buildings, rather than just plans.  Ever since I read Laura Ingalls Wilder's books (you know, Little House on the Prairie -- the books are MUCH better than the TV show), I've wanted to try building a house (cabin/cottage) without any money going into it at all, like her dad did when they moved to the prairie.  Or if that wasn't totally practical, then set a very low dollar figure allowed, like maybe $500 or $1,000 for purchased materials.  

Anyone interested in this one?

Freeholder

Edited to add:  Here, we can build up to 200 s.f. with no permit, but it can't be any higher than ten feet to the top of the roof.  That pretty much leaves out anything but a very low loft.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on September 29, 2006, 08:05:19 PM
Freeholdfarm, my RV storage garage is based on John's Little House plans - I converted it to post and beam due to the free materials I have,  but am still at under $200 for 2 stories and a full attic.  It could be converted into a house in an emergency if I really needed shelter- primitive but useable.

You're right - it is a fun and challenging project.

I was going to use some lumberyard salvage 2x4's to finish the hand rails but Fred, who works with me said I wasn't allowed to so I have to cut them in the saw mill.  He knows I want to keep the cash outlay down. :-/
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Sassy on September 29, 2006, 09:50:25 PM
Freeholdfarm, I loved the books by Laura Ingalls Wilder, too - read them all, I think.  Always enjoyed it when they were talking about how they built the houses - 1st of sod & then when they built with wood - how there were cracks between the boards & in the winter the cold winds would blow in & they would have to tunnel out through the snow... really left an impression on me - I was probably in 5th or 6th grade, used to sit in class reading instead of listening to the teacher  :-/ .
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on September 30, 2006, 07:56:20 PM
To the top of the roof from where?

Floor? ground? ground where?

One of the books I just gave away was about tiny houses in Japan.  Tiny footprint houses, that is, some went up great distances.  But if you could go down into the ground four stories....

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: zeeya on October 14, 2006, 10:43:46 PM
Quote
This one is my favorite. Who says a tiny house can't be architecturally interesting!?!
(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos_FromBK_WEB/Campbells_WEB/Campbell%20tiny%20house%20front_WEB.jpg)

(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos_FromBK_WEB/Campbells_WEB/Campbell-danny%20inside_WEB.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: zeeya on October 14, 2006, 10:45:15 PM
Quote
This one is my favorite. Who says a tiny house can't be architecturally interesting!?!
(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos_FromBK_WEB/Campbells_WEB/Campbell%20tiny%20house%20front_WEB.jpg)

(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos_FromBK_WEB/Campbells_WEB/Campbell-danny%20inside_WEB.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: mikeschn on December 02, 2006, 12:09:26 PM
I sure would like to see some more activity in the "under 200sf" category!  ;)

Mike...
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: ergodesk on December 02, 2006, 01:11:22 PM
MIke, under 200 just might be a TearDrop Eh.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: mikeschn on December 03, 2006, 06:11:26 PM
Nah...

32 sq ft is a teardrop...

200 sq ft is a tiny cottage!

Mike...

Quote
MIke, under 200 just might be a TearDrop Eh.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dimitri on December 08, 2006, 04:20:20 PM
I saw this website looking for something else looks neat!  8-)

Anyways I was looking around and saw this thread so I put together a little neat place after alittle time getting it right and signed up so I can post it. Tell me what you think!  ;D

Its 14x14 feet so 196 square feet. Has 4 4x3 windows, 1 2x1 high window in the washroom, and a 2x3 window near the sink. As well as windows on the doors. Fits everything I need and the TV can be moved so I can work on my workbench or use the computer to under the bench. The Hot water would come from one of thouse mini-water heaters and heating of the place with a heater both hidden in the attic.  ;)

PS. No I didnt make it just drew it up in the last few hours. :)

Dimitri
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 08, 2006, 05:56:16 PM
Welcome to the site Dimitri.  What about kitchen stuff-- refrigerator, cook stove etc?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dimitri on December 08, 2006, 06:17:38 PM
Glen,

Bar fridge under the Convection oven hidden in the Cabinet look alike wood door. The Convection/microwave combo oven is for the cooking and maybe a hotplate. Essencially I looked around my place, decided what I'd keep and got that out of it. Bare minium. Other designs I saw here look more comforatable I've got to admit especially if there is more then one person. But for a single guy this would work.  ;D

Dimitri
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 08, 2006, 06:21:17 PM
Sounds good to me.  I think that would work great. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dimitri on December 08, 2006, 06:27:48 PM
Still I think the smallest amount you could live really comfortably with is 300 square feet. anything smaller and you start removing things you'd like to keep but dont got space for.

Dimitri
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 08, 2006, 06:33:35 PM
I keep digging holes and building but still don't have enough room -- that's why I had to stay out of this contest/project.  I'm a bad example.  There are a lot of cool toys out there and I need them.   :-/
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jraabe on December 09, 2006, 09:42:40 AM
I generally agree that 200 sf is too small for a real house for most people (and, of course, this is why it is exempted from permit requirements in many locations  :D)

A house should really be big enough for 2 people to share if you are going to go to the trouble to build it.

I think a 300 to 500 sf contest would be more practical for a small house design.

Anyone interested in doing this again! I'll come up with some prizes if there is interest. Think about the parameters of the contest and give me your suggestions. For instance, should it use standard framing?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 09, 2006, 09:55:13 AM
Sounds like it would be enjoyed by many of the members here.  While I think it should be done with a backhoe, I think standard framing is the way for most of the members.  :-/

Maybe you should think of a subject and start a topic on it to get it on the road. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonseyhay on December 09, 2006, 04:29:18 PM
A good idea John. I think the size restriction is about right but as far as type of construction, "anything goes would be good".  There is nothing wrong with using alternate building materials.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dimitri on December 09, 2006, 04:33:33 PM
Tell me something when measuring square feet of a house do you count the footprint you know around the outter wall on the outside or the actual living space the inside part of the outter wall ??  :-?

Dimitri
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 09, 2006, 04:38:23 PM
Depends - I have heard of a few different ways to do it - don't remember the details though.  I just know they were not all the same.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dimitri on December 09, 2006, 04:40:48 PM
Thanks Glenn, well using Bob Vila Home Design (a older copy) I've been measuring the footprint (the outside of the outter wall). Which is ok wasnt sure how to do it.  ;D

Dimitri
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 09, 2006, 04:53:25 PM
It is quite common to refer to the outside footprint as the size of the house but it is not all considered living space.  I refer to my first house as 1200 square feet - 30x40.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dimitri on December 09, 2006, 05:04:50 PM
Ah ok thanks Glenn, I've got to admit I dont know much about home design, just tid bits from here and there watching TV shows and talking to people I know who have built their own houses.  :)

Dimitri
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on December 30, 2006, 05:05:09 PM
A 300 s.f. to 500 s.f. contest would be good.  I've got several plans in that size -- can't go much smaller, because my family consists of me and my 26-y-o autistic daughter.  We need some separate space for the times when she's crabby enough to drive me nuts!  And I have to bathe her, so need a full-sized tub, too.  Plus room for the treadle sewing machine that used to belong to my dad's mother.  

I've wondered about how to measure the square footage with some of my designs, since some are either cob or strawbale, with very thick walls.  

And there was a question up there that I think was meant for me.  I'd mentioned that in Oregon we are allowed to build up to 200 s.f. without having to get a building permit (provided there is already a legal house on the property), but it can't be more than ten feet high.  The ten feet is from ground level.  As far as I know, we can put a basement under it if we want, and in fact my mother and I were talking about that one day when she was here (she and I have been building an attached garage here at my grandmother's home, where I live).  We decided that we could not only have a basement, but there could be underground rooms attached to the basement that didn't show at all above ground!  These un-permitted structures have to be at least six feet (including eaves) from any other building, but with an underground room or two, we could have passages connecting two or more 200 s.f. buildings that were above ground.  Mom and I have decided that next time we build anything, it will be without building permits!  Just a small garage has been quite a hassle (though probably not as much of a hassle as in some other areas).  But we've learned a lot -- neither of us had done any cement work before, and Mom hadn't done much framing, either.  She's 70, by the way -- age is little barrier to accomplishing things!

Kathleen
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 30, 2006, 05:19:57 PM
Some places, at least, the 200 sf is footprint.

While you're playing with that idea, get Mike Oehler's $25 and up Underground House book.

He's not real fond of purely underground rooms but he does have an inexpensive way to build underground.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Dimitri on December 30, 2006, 05:21:01 PM
Kathleen,

I'd go with the inside of the wall if the walls were really thick, but watch it your local building inspectors for the place you live might not do it that way.  :-/

Dimitri
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 30, 2006, 05:32:15 PM
Kathleen, if you are thinking of joining the troglodyte way of life, you may want to look at Mike Oehler's book, The $50 and Up Underground House.  It could give you some ideas for your underground structures as far as framing member sizes go.  

John has talked about a pressure treated wood basement type plan also.  I can't remember if there is anything posted here or not.  Possibly a search will turn up something.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on December 30, 2006, 05:48:48 PM
For some reason, I keep thinking it's $25.  It's $50.

Good book.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on December 30, 2006, 07:46:45 PM
This house is much more expensive than $25, Amanda.  It's $50 and his book is under $20
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: desdawg on December 31, 2006, 06:29:11 AM
Inflation and improvements. It was considerably less back in the day and before the rocket stove.  :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on January 01, 2007, 07:59:01 AM
Quote
Some places, at least, the 200 sf is footprint.

While you're playing with that idea, get Mike Oehler's $25 and up Underground House book.

He's not real fond of purely underground rooms but he does have an inexpensive way to build underground.

I've read the $50 and Up Underground House Book -- that's what I plan to use when it's time for me to build a home for my daughter and myself.  The purely underground rooms I mentioned when talking about the 200 s.f. structures would be storage, root cellar, out-of-the-weather 'hallways', and so on, not living space.  

Kathleen
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on January 01, 2007, 08:04:38 AM
Quote
Kathleen, if you are thinking of joining the troglodyte way of life, you may want to look at Mike Oehler's book, The $50 and Up Underground House.  It could give you some ideas for your underground structures as far as framing member sizes go.  

John has talked about a pressure treated wood basement type plan also.  I can't remember if there is anything posted here or not.  Possibly a search will turn up something.

When we lived in Alaska for a while after my husband (now ex) got out of the Air Force, we were going to use a treated wood basement.  We ended up moving, for a job, and selling that place, so didn't get any farther than the footings, but I am familiar with the concept.

I read Mike Oehler's book sometime back, probably the first edition.  One of these days I'm going to buy a copy, as that's how I plan to build when (or if) we return to Alaska (where I grew up).  It would be much easier to heat in a climate where winter temperatures can go to minus seventy, and most of the available firewood is spruce.  (I'm talking about the Interior of Alaska, not near the coast, where temperatures are milder but damper.)

Kathleen
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lyz on February 08, 2007, 08:43:11 AM
I am considering building, for back of a better word, a clubhouse/garage for my daughter to play her music, practice dance, etc.  Basically, I need a structure around 200 square feet that has heat and air conditioning in it and won't get blown away by strong wind or small tornadoes.  I could even put a loft in it to give her "hanging out" space.  I do not need plumbing, but I need to do this as CHEAP as possible.  Does anyone have any ideas where I can start? I am handy with tools, but I have never conquered this type of project before. Thanks!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 08, 2007, 09:03:39 AM
Welcome,

We are getting ready to build a playhouse for our girls. couple of things you should probably consider:

1. You can use John's little house plans (very cheap) as a "guide" to design your studio. Since most cities require a permit for structures over 120 square feet, you may need this to obtain the permit.
2. Check with local public "servants" about any special setback requirements.
3. Do you have to worry about HOA covenants?

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lyz on February 08, 2007, 10:36:57 AM
Hi,

No, I don't have to worry about HOA covenants, as far as I know.  I do have to get a permit, especially since I want to run electricity, and I have to follow certain guidelines of the city - building so many feet away from the property line, etc.  

I saw the plans for the little house, and they look about right, since all i really need is an open floor plan and possibly a loft.  I am just a little confused about the electricity part (what comes first - building or electricity) and how this building stays tied down.  I have looked at garage building kits from home centers, but they just don't look very sturdy.  

Thanks for any info you give.  This will be quite a feat if my daughter and i can actually build this.  If it works, I may have to build a studio for myself, too.

Lyz
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 08, 2007, 10:56:06 AM
Where are you located?

We are in McKinney, TX.  To keep it portable for our eventual move to Colorado, we decided to do a skid foundation and use hurricane tie downs to help keep the playhouse from slamming into the house.  If you are looking for something more permanent, then you probably looking at a pier/post/beam foundation as it is the simplest.

You might want to get an electrician to get an estimate. Electrician wont be "cheap," but it may be the only thing will have to sub out. They will probably be able to tell you when the best time is to run wires from your panel. Your electrician might let you be his/her helper for wiring outlets, etc. This will save on some cost. Just depends on who you get...

Do you have any details about your site you can share, ie how much property you have to work with?

You will be surprised what you can do - and this board is a great source for info as well as occasional humor.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 08, 2007, 11:04:25 AM
P.S.-

The Little House plans are good for a structure 14' wide, but length can be modified. John's Victoria's Cottage Plans is for a structure 16' wide - the plans has a bonus drawing for a 16' studio.

Please see John's disclaimer in the following post:

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1109959191
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lyz on February 08, 2007, 11:48:58 AM
Thanks.  I live in Huntsville, Alabama.  I want a more permanent structure.  We won't be moving it anywhere.  In fact, I had thought about having a sunroom built instead, but it was too costly.  I haven't accurately measured the area, but our lot is 180 x 50 approximately.  Our house is only 1100 square feet on that lot.  So, we don't have a lot of area, but it is enough to put a garage.  The land is flat (We're at the base of a mountain). I haven't checked into how this will be insured.  Since it will be a detached building and my daughter will have her electric piano and electric guitar, air hockey game, etc. in there, that will be an important aspect.  I assume I have to lay concrete, etc., but I suppose I just need a step-by-step instruction guide of what I have to do first, get permits, etc.  I have been told that some plans (and the Little House plan may be this way) utilizing full pieces of lumber so that you don't have excess, i.e., partial sheets of plywood and 2 x 4's etc.    A garage kit was $10,000 at the home center here, and we just don't have that at the moment.  Have you built a playhouse or similar structure before?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 08, 2007, 12:52:57 PM
Nope - first build!!!   ::)

Here's a picture of our lot:
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/quitesweet/Building/2801aerial-1.jpg)

If you get a free account on photobucket.com, you can post pictures here as well.

John includes pier examples in his plans.  Also, there are several examples in the gallery and forum. For example, "Carol's Little House" in the gallery has a link to a section with details how she did her pier foundation.

The book section on the site is something which you may want to look into as well.

http://www.countryplans.com/books.html

I have found John Wagner's "House Framing" to be really good for beginners and own it for reference. You could probably find a concrete book at the library.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 08, 2007, 01:09:39 PM
P.S.- John's "Big Enchilada" plans includes bonus items, including how to do sunrooms/skylights.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 08, 2007, 07:17:59 PM
Lyz-

Here is the link to a post regarding the bonus studio in the Victoria Cottage plans:

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1170722062

Maybe you could make a studio for each of you in this one structure?

Just a though....
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on February 08, 2007, 10:15:55 PM
Best time for electricity is after the roof and walls are up, windows and doors are on, but before the interior wall covering - sheetrock - paneling -etc is on.

You could do this with wood floor and treated wood foundation piers, and skip the concrete, if you like.

Welcome to the forum, Lyz.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on February 09, 2007, 07:27:12 PM
A friend and I were given a tour of Huntsville by one of her cousins a couple of years ago.  Burritt mansion and the Art museum were the highlights.  Seemed like a good place to live, although he lived up in Tennessee and commuted.

I'm "only" about 80 miles from you.

Welcome to the forum.

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: harbor5616 on February 11, 2007, 01:06:50 PM
This is an interesting topic that I have enjoyed reading.  I just built a 14X16 "storage shed" cabin in Douglas county.  "Douglas County requires a building permit for structures over 200 sq. ft. This is floor space. Extended rooflines are counted as well (porch cover, carport, etc.). Any structure that does not meet the requirements of a residence is considered a storage shed. All covers over an RV require a permit regardless of size."  The interpretation of this seems to be interior main floor space which I am right at the edge.  Lofts apparently are not included.  This was my first real building project although I have some experience.  My father in law and I built the trusses at home and the walls on site.  We used 2X4's 24" on center although we ended up adding a bunch for seams in the siding etc..  I used almost all scrounged materials so my total cost was around $500.  It turned out really nice and the ceiling in the center of the cabin is over 11' which makes it seem spacious inside.  We built it on pier blocks which was pretty easy.  To get it dried in took us around 5 days with two people.  We would be much faster on the next one.  We also added a front deck 8' wide across the 14' front of the cabin.  I have plans for the next one to include either a loft or second floor as there seems to be room and adding a 4' pony wall wouldn't adversly affect the cosmetics with the steep roof.  I did a floor plan with punch home design but I can't seem to get it posted.  If anybody can help I would be glad to share.  I plan on putting a tiny bath with a shower and toilet on the back wall as well as an 8'counter/kitchen.  All lighting will be dc run to golf cart batteries with a dc refrigerator and an inverter to run any small ac appliances and a generator for the big ones and charging the batts.  I plan to use a composting toilet and run the shower drain onto the ground.  There will be a propane water heater outside and a propane fireplace inside for heat.  No well so I will be using a water tank.  This is just a cabin but is a fun project!  I plan on building a couple more as bedroom units to create my own camping "village" and love the idea I don't have to deal with the building permit quagmire.  Glad to have any suggestions!  JOE
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 11, 2007, 01:13:29 PM
I've got Punch! as well - what seems to be the problem?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on February 11, 2007, 01:17:16 PM
Welcome to the forum, Joe.  Sounds like a great project.

There is a section on posting pictures in the forum news.  Output it to a jpeg then attach it with the browse button on the compose message box or copy the pix on your screen with Gadwin printscreen (free- google or see forum news picture article).  You can also post it to Photobucket and link the IMG tag in your message here to display it.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: harbor5616 on February 11, 2007, 01:26:24 PM
Here is the first draft of floorplan.  Thanks for the tip on Gadwin!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: youngins on February 11, 2007, 01:44:11 PM
Looks like a great start!  :)

I would say just beware of the county's land use code. My county's limit is 120 square feet for an "Accessory Structure", but they stuck in definition language which makes it tricky:

Accessory Dwelling. A dwelling unit for use as a complete independent living facility on the same parcel as a permitted principal use. Accessory dwellings do not include dwellings which this Code specifically designates as being part of an allowed principal use and therefore allowed as a use by right.

Accessory Outside Storage. The outside placement, for a period of more than twenty-four 24 hours, of items which are customary and incidental to the principal use of the property.

Accessory Structure. A subordinate structure located on the same lot as the principal structure, the use of which is incidental and accessory to the principal use. Unless otherwise specified in this Code, any accessory structure is subject to the minimum requirements of the zoning district in which it is located.

Accessory Use. An Accessory Use must be a use customarily incidental to and on the same parcel as the principal use. Except as provided in this Code, an Accessory Use must comply with all regulations applicable to the principal use.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lyz on February 15, 2007, 08:46:00 AM
Wow, Thanks everyone.  I had to go out of town, so I've been off the forum for a while.  I will look at the websites and pictures and info everyone has mentioned.  The more I think about this clubhouse/studio, the more I'd like to incorporate my art work and easels, as well, and a place to store my tools, bikes, etc.  Of course, now I'm getting carried away. I am lucky that the ground is relatively flat.  HOwever, since we are within a mile of the base of the mountain, it may be rock or at the very least hard clay underneath the grass.  I probably really won't start this until this summer.  First I am removing popcorn ceilings from the house and screening in a porch.  Amanda - Huntsville is a pretty place with the mountains.  It's a good place for families, and of course, engineers.  I don't like the climate though.  Snow is a rarity and it is always humid, it seems.  Whenever everyone else has snow, we have rain.  Where do you live?  

Thanks again for all the input!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Amanda_931 on February 15, 2007, 06:28:24 PM
I live in Tennessee not too far from Florence.

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on February 25, 2007, 07:35:28 AM
Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1172417729]This Thread[/link]
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: hnash53 on March 03, 2007, 09:49:13 AM
Just a couple of links that maybe have already been put in this thread, but anyway:

www.smallhousesociety.org

www.tumbleweedhouses.com

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on March 10, 2007, 01:52:39 PM
Looks like there might be a typo on measurements in one of the projects. This from Pam:

"I think there's an error in the metrics for Jonsey's house, which
came in #3.  According to the first drawing the bathroom (and kitchen) is
1.200m long, but that converts to only 3.94 ft - hardly possible.

Based on the full length of the house 5.4m (which converts to 17.75'), I'm
guessing that in reality the bathroom is about 2.44m long (or approximately
8' long.)"

8' is about right for a full size not-too-big bathroom. 5x8 is a very standard tub, toilet, vanity bathroom.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jonsey/downunder on March 10, 2007, 02:21:16 PM
No, not a typo, just the way my drawing program chooses to apply the measurements. :)
The 1.200 is the distance of the inset on each side. The bathroom/kitchen is actually 3 meters overall (about 9.84 feet). Where the gap between the distance marks is too small the drawing program places the measurement outside. It occurs in other places on the drawing as well.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on March 21, 2007, 08:00:46 AM
Thanks Jonsey.

I am always fighting my CAD program as well. I still do my final drawings with hand drafting because you can make things pop out better and have total control of dimensioning, callouts and such.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Garrett87 on March 25, 2007, 08:07:21 PM
I have been experimenting with burlap, cement and acrylic. This size home can be built very cheaply using bamboo or almost any kind of sticks. It is uncanny how waterproof it is.

Here's the research. Get busy! Housing for all will change the world!

Garrett

http://www.ferrocement.com/bioFiber/roofLabContents-y5.en.html
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on March 25, 2007, 08:38:27 PM
Very interesting, Garret, but I'm still wondering how you get this inspected if necessary.  Seems for shelter in a non-code required area it would work fine or as non-structural infill but most have code and inspection issues.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: mark_chenail on March 26, 2007, 08:57:00 AM
Interesting article.  I seem to remember something similar from the Helen and Scott Nearing books on slip form construction.  In one of their first homes they created partitions by stretching burlap over frames and then brushing them with a light coating of plaster of paris.  The wooden frames were stained and surrounded the panels of slightly textured plaster, which they tinted with pigment.  Very sort of bungalow arts and crafts.  But they said it made a fairly solid wall and held up well to wear and tear and of course wasnt hard or expensive to repair.  I dont have the Nearing books handy but perhaps someone can post more about the method they used.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 15, 2007, 05:00:54 PM
I am beginning to build a small 200 sf cottage the first part will be a 8x10 storage shed which will actually be delivered already built ( I need something I can lock up and leave for weeks at a time) then off of that I will be building a 10x12 straw bale addition.  Earth plaster floors, flat roof with deck on top of the addition.   Eventually I will build another withthe same footprint/design accross from it facing the same direction with some outdoor kitchen/patio space inbetween.  I plan to use the rubble trench foundation with concrete footings and that insulating stuff that looks like stybrofoam for the moisture barrier between the straw bales and the concrete.  I can get the straw free or really cheap, the land has good soil for making plaster too,  I have the plywood and 2x4's and some other scraps of lumber laying around.  I want nice looking old windows so until I can scrounge some of those I am going to use whatever I can get free.  That is my plan. The first cottage will just have living/kitchen space and the bedroom area.   I plan to use hooks and dowels and small shelves all over in that storage unit to make the space go as far as possible.  The sawdust toilet, 12V shower and washing machine will be housed in an entirely different building close by.  I have a generator and some 12V stuff lights, battery and etc. ready to go as well as a lot of tools I have been gathering over the years.  I also have a truck to haul the water etc. I have to do this with very very little money.    I have a teeny tiny bit of experience, I worked last summer as a construction laborer mostly sweeping and picking up garbage but I did get some good ideas and information.  Any ideas or leads on solar items would be appreciated.  I have one to share too although I haven't visited the site yet my friend gets tons of free stuff on craig's list freecycle for her area.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 15, 2007, 05:14:19 PM
Sounds cool tanya.  I do quite a bit of alternative building stuff so will be glad to help out with what I know.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 16, 2007, 07:58:14 AM
Do you know how many hours I should expect to be digging the 10x12 rubble foundation trench, it will have to be about two feet deep and two feet wide and the digging is fairly easy where i am.  I think I can get at least one teenager to help out.  I am pretty used to digging because I do the french intensive style of raised bed gardening so digging trenches is not new to me.  

And will the concrete footing part be to much to mix by hand in a wheel barrow?  I could rent or buy a portable mixer too, or will I have to call the big concrete truck?  If I can manage to do it in small batches I can definately level it myself but if I have to call the truck I think I will need professionals.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 16, 2007, 08:44:23 PM
4 cubic feet per running foot x 44 feet = 176 cubic feet / 27 = 6.5 cu. yds.  
That is quite a bit.  Probably a weeks work digging plus you have to get rid of the dirt but what comes out of the ground will probably have a lot more volume after it is loosened up.  Got a friend with a backhoe?

Rubble trench - so I assume you are mixing large rocks in the cement -in the trench then pouring mortar over it?  That will probably take about half as much cement as there is trench so - 3 or four yards cement mortar and 3 or so yards of big rocks -- to make the 6.5 yards - plus whatever you go above the ground.  Most of the big guys probably wont want to mess with a rubble footing so I would guess you will have to do it -- maybe some independent smaller operator might but  it may cost quite a bit.  

If doing it yourself I'm pretty sure you will at least want a power cement mixer.  It can be done but is quite a bit of work.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 20, 2007, 07:18:12 PM
hmmmm that seems like a lot of work for such a little building.  For now I think I will stick withthe little storage shed on skids parked upon some nice leveled gravel.  Maybe once I begin the "addition" I will make a slab.  More than likely though I will lock up my belongings into that little storage shed and camp out or go traveling and stay with friends.  I got a good book at hte library todaya nd I am pretty sure I can build ANYTHING withthe directions in it but it still looks like a lot of work.  The book is Barn's Sheds and Outbuildings published by creative homeowner and the authors are John D Wagner and Clayton DeKorne  Good book with DETAILED pictures and explanations for everything from hardware, tools to the different types of concrete and woods.  Still....  it looks like a lot of work.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 30, 2007, 01:53:38 PM
Well after I went to the land and saw that gorgeous view i have had to change my plans a little for one thing the cottages will all have windows all around as many as I can fit into it.  I am also using hte panel ideas that I saw so that once I do get there I only have to build the floor and roof and set the posts.  I am going to use the pole building with 4x6 posts to hang the rest off of.  The first cottage will still be the 10x20 storage unit refurbished into a delightful little sottage with windows along both sides and french doors on the ends.  Then there will be covered walkways (shade) between the two cottage units so that I can use one right away and the other I will build as I go.  One building will have the kitchen and living and the other will have bedroom office a third smaller 12x16 will be the toilet/shower/washer/and closets.  Everything will be enclosed in a walled courtyard, to keep out snakes.  The two units I build will have flat roofs so I can build decks on top.  Now I am just saving up my dollars for some lumber.  Posts first.  4x6 20 ft.  I have the plywood and 2x4's for the panels already so that will go easy enough I am nrevous about setting those big posts though but I am sure I can find someone to help me if I wait until the heat wave is over.  My new plan is so much better tahnt he old plan and I knew I got a good deal on my land but I had no idea how good of deal until I saw that view.  My aritst friends will be painting that view, the sunsets and sun rises for years to come.  I feel very lucky.  But there is no trees, or bushes, or grass, only sagebrush and it is very small sage brush I drove right over the top of it and that area is now the driveway.  I guess that was the easiest thing other than finding the survey markers, I thought we might have to hunt for those but nope they were right out in plain sight.  It was easy enough to level out the spot for the shed, the land is pretty level already and we were done in no time then we went to the lake.  I have some ideas on building hte floor and roof too.  The book I have says to draw in the areas where the joist hangers will go on each board with them lined up flat one board right next tot he other and ends level.  I am wondering then if you can mark the spots where the joist hangers go, and the book says the joist hangers have to be level with the top of the board then couldn't you also screw down the joist hangers while they are nice and flat like that, instead of hanging the sill first and then screwing them on from what looks like an extremely uncomfortable angle,  What do you guys think?  Maybe that is how you are supposed to do it ?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 30, 2007, 02:11:35 PM
Don't forget to leave room for brace panels.  You need bracing to keep the walls from folding over time and from earthquakes etc.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 30, 2007, 05:54:05 PM
Ok, is the brace panel a diaganol brace 2x set up to hold the wall? or is it some hardware I have not heard about until now.  I don't think the book says anything about brace panels other than to brace the posts square, level and plumb before putting in the concrete.  I think I have seen these diaganol type braces before theough.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John_C on July 30, 2007, 07:46:56 PM
I think what Glenn is referring to is your comment about windows all around vs. the need for adequate diagonal bracing to provide sheer or racking strength. The code requirements have been discussed here on the board before.  Usually plywood sheathing at or near the corners fulfills this structural requirement but there are several other ways. Diagonal 2x4's can bet let into the studs but I believe you would need to have a 2x6 stud wall to avoid cutting too deeply into the studs.  There used to be some metal T material made specifically for diagonal bracing and I've seen some wire and turnbuckle rigs.  

I'm guessing a current edition of Wagner's "Carpentry" would have several alternative.  It's probably available at your local library.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 30, 2007, 08:06:01 PM
OK I am going to look for that book at the library tomorrow.  I Was planning on just putting in 2x3 double hung windows in the spaces between the studs with using the header and extra studs to set it in.  I didn't think about diagonal bracing Do I still need it if I jsut use lots of little windows and not the bigger windows?  There isn't a code for buildings under 200sf where I am building but I know that I still have to build it solid because the winds actually do blow stuff apart in that area and I don't want my little cottage blown apart especially if I happen to be home.  and will a 2x3 double hung window fit between studs 24 inches on center?  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John_C on July 30, 2007, 08:25:14 PM
Yes you still need to consider bracing.  A frame wall by itself has little resistance to falling over like a bunch of stacked cards.  The plywood gives it that strength.   Are you building from John's plans, or others?  What do they show for sheathing?

I doubt a 2x3 window will fit.  I have a Pella catalog and their 1'9" windows need a 1'  9-3/4" opening.  There is a 1'  9-1/2" space between studs 24" o.c.  

Their 2'1"  window needs an opening  2'  1-3/4"  wide.   These dimensions vary greatly by manufacturer.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 30, 2007, 08:27:31 PM
I also have a question about the enchilada plans.  I am going to get some of those as soon as I get some money but do they come with detailed instructions along with the plans so that I can know what to do and at what point in the process.  Also is there a comprehensive materials list so I can just call up the lumber supply store with my order and go pick it up and be ready to start?  That would certainly be worth the price.  I am just starting with the very smallest building I can start, either the dog house or the little building for the generator, maybe a tiny stable for the horses,  then I will build something bigger once I know how to use the materials I think.  My new county doesn't allow modular or mobiles because the wind is terrific so I have to build everything solid or I will have all kinds of neighbors upset.  I am kind of worried.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 30, 2007, 08:31:57 PM
Well what is sheathing?  That is another thing the book doesn't talk about but yes, the walls will be covered in 3/4 inch A plywood, 4ft up and then above that I will have as many windows as I can fit.  It sounds like I may not get as many windows as I want.  Can the bracing be down in the lower half of the wall where the plywood is?  How many braces will it take in the upper top four feet in a twenty foot wall?  how much space do they have to cover?  I don't like these diagonal braces.  Messing up my window plans.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John_C on July 30, 2007, 08:39:13 PM
The sheathing is what gets nailed directly to the framin, in your case the 3/4" plywood is the sheathing.  3/4" A plywood is pretty heavy and high grade for sheathing.  I would guess they are intending it to be sheathing - siding in one.   Do they show any other siding over the sheathing?  

I would think 5/8 T-111 would be less expensive than 3/4 A Plywood and would also serve as sheathing an siding.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John_C on July 30, 2007, 08:46:09 PM
Quote
Can the bracing be down in the lower half of the wall where the plywood is?  How many braces will it take in the upper top four feet in a twenty foot wall?  how much space do they have to cover?  I don't like these diagonal braces.  Messing up my window plans.  

It depends.  If the winds are as high as you say the amount of bracing need to be calculated for the local conditions.  

Generally a 4x8 sheet vertically in the corner fulfills the requirement.  As I said there are other ways to provide the diagonal bracing.  I've seen metal braces let into the studs in a V shape with the point of the V  4' up from the bottom plate in the corner.  That allowed windows to get closer to the corner.  There are many buildings that are mostly glass, it can be done.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 30, 2007, 09:49:05 PM
I appreciate all this help.  I went and looked in the book again and of course there is a whole section on bracing with step by step instructions and pictures too.  I skipped that part because it looks complicated.  I can live with square and level and plumb but slanted and diaganal.... I am the sort of person who can tell right up front where the trouble spots will be and this is it.  The bracing.  So once again I have changed my mind.  I am sticking to the prefab shed already built to code, and since the county has strict codes it is pretty solid.  and I am sure the bracing is already in place and I will just cut out windows where ever one fits.  

I will probably have to find windows a the second hand stores because the sales ad I have from the building supply store states the sizes beginning at two feet. I will use the plywood and 2x's I already have, on the little generator building and etc.  I will have to give up my idea of having the flat roof with a deck on top away from the snakes but simpler is better and how hard can it be to level a little building and cut some windows into it?  Between the dogs and cats and horses there wont be any snakes around anyway.  The money and time I save on building something I don't even have any idea of what I am doing, can be spent on making a good foundation and setting up the little cottage with some vintage windows and good paint.  Today I started collecting flagstomes for the walks and patio.  

Maybe after I actually have some good experience building a little generator hut and putting in some windows I will take on a bigger project but for now I am sticking to the simplest way I can find.  Short of living in an RV, I would do that but I have all this furniture I spent a fortune on and I want to keep it.  Plus a lot of it is my family antiques and I like it better than built in cabnets and counters.  I know the real builders here will think I am weak letting a thing like bracing hamper my plans but it is a good reality check for me.  To complicated.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 30, 2007, 09:57:32 PM
The Enchilada set is a good set of plans, very well thought out and reasonably simple to build giving you many options from simple to more complex.

You will need to study some to understand the proper building sequence.  You can post questions here as you are doing and someone will point you in the proper direction.  Remember that all answers given here are suggestions - no guarantees and ultimately you are the one who has to decide what is right for you.  We do have a great bunch of helpful members though. :)

Adding a few brace panels is not too bad -- It can give you a bit of privacy - places for bookshelves -tall things etc.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 30, 2007, 10:17:55 PM
Well once I see how they are set up I might be able to actually get it figured out in my mind but just thinking about having a diaganal brace right where I want windows is driving me nuts.  This house I live in now has an entire wall of floor to ceiling windows with no diaganal bracing on that particular wall whatsoever but between each window is a 4x4 post.  Even so when the wind blows sometimes I think it could pop those windows right out.  For now I am going to stick to the easy plan and maybe in a couple of years the little cottage can be the barn and I will build an awesome cottage.  I wish I had paid more attention to the diagonal bracing in the building where I worked last year as it was being built.  Once I have a little success with a small building then I might feel better about trying something bigger.  Does the enchilada plans show proper building sequence in the instructions/plans?  I know the hospital I worked on last year had huge packets of plans but there were no instructions to say how to start or what happens when, my boss seemed to know that stuff and organized the crews to make stuff happen when it was supposed to.  But there must be directions to that effect for smaller buildings?  OR is that the reason most people don't build their own?  You really have to have solid hands on experience or a degree in building?  For now I am going withthe simple plan, over the winter I will study building sequence and hopefully get some hands on experience and then in the spring who knows maybe I will build some big awesome house.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 30, 2007, 11:06:11 PM
John has a pretty good general construction sequence in the plans in the Read Me First booklet, along with lots of other good information -

Fine points can be gone over here on the forum.

You don't have to have the diagonals if you have a well nailed and glued plywood or OSB sheathed box wall in the corners.  Then the rest can be pretty much as you please with headers over the windows and doors to support the roof loads.

The Wagner book will answer a lot of questions and is available here http://www.countryplans.com/books.html through Amazon for as cheap as $4.00 used.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on July 31, 2007, 09:25:43 AM
oh thank you for the book link, I am going to be ordering a bunch of those books.  I always feel like books are a great way to spend money.  By spring I will know what I am doing maybe by then I can actually have some hands on experience as well.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on July 31, 2007, 07:18:30 PM
My main way of learning - study and do it. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: peg_688 on August 01, 2007, 09:50:52 PM
This fits here ,

  Home Small Home
No McMansion for this guy: For four years, 6-foot Gregory Johnson has lived in a 10-foot-by-7-foot home. It's cedar-sided with a metal roof, double-pane windows and a small deck. It's a normal house by those standards, except it's only 70-square-feet!

The bigger shock is that he's not alone in his love for tiny houses. There's even a Small House Society.




  (http://cdn.channel.aol.com/channels/0a/07/46af8710-001c2-05084-400cb8e1)

  Another maybe interesting link :

  http://www.resourcesforlife.com/groups/smallhousesociety/index.htm
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on August 01, 2007, 10:16:23 PM
That's downsized more than I could stand on a permanent basis.   :o

Used to have a travel trailer about that size that was bearable for a couple week or so vacation. It didn't have the nice porch tho.

http://bolerlife.com/
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on August 02, 2007, 06:34:11 AM
I lived in a school bus with three little kids and an alcoholic and I was the only one who actually liked it.  I fought moving out of that bus.  It was easy to clean and the kids were always in thier own area or outside and my ex was never home.  Loved it.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on August 02, 2007, 08:02:12 AM
Sounds like quite an experience, tanya..  I guess smaller places can have their advantages. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: robertbenson on August 22, 2007, 04:57:49 PM
Are there any plans on having any additional contests for small home plans?  I just recently found your website and have a passion for functional small homes.  I would love to be involved in a design contest for homes of a minimal size.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on August 22, 2007, 05:37:57 PM
Welcome to the forum.

There was a little talk of another contest but it never went anywhere.  Someday maybe.  

I'm a non-participant as I don't know how to build real small stuff. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: FrankInWIS on August 22, 2007, 05:53:35 PM
I'd love to see that contest John.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on August 23, 2007, 08:18:48 PM
One summer I lived in a shelter systems dome it was pretty rugged but not to bad.  We stayed dry and survived.  www.shelter-systems.com  My son was 16 at the time and he had his own dome a 14 ft. one for his room I stayed in the biggger 20 ft one which also served as kitchen/office and living room.  I bought the greenhouse model for the bigger one because i knew I wouldn't want to live in a dome forever but I would want a greenhouse.  We still have the domes and I would live in them again in a heartbeat but unfortunately they really attract snakes it is the moist warm air I think.  My new land has a big rattlesnake population so dome living is out.  The best part of living in the domes was hearing the birds in the morning, the frogs singing at night and when it rained it was like being inside a bubble in a big waterfall.  These domes are perfect in the mountains and I think they would be great in Hawaii or other places with no poiseness snakes.  I met a family who lives near us in the high snowy mountains who actually set up a wood stove and lived in theirs all winter.  NO way not me!!!  Maybe if I absolutely had to I would, but I would surround the whole thing with straw bales.  Just another idea for temporay shelters. Perfect for storing building materials or work site shelter.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn-k on August 23, 2007, 08:33:13 PM
Cool Tanya, and the strawbales would keep the snakes from freezing. ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tanya on August 24, 2007, 02:06:58 PM
No, I still wouldn't live in the domes where there are poisoness snakes.  That would be dangerous but I would live in the mountains or Hawaii in one or two and if I lived in the mountains in the winter in one I would entomb it in straw bales for protection.  These domes have to be staked and tied down!!!  I just came in from taking mine down we had them tied to a tree but not staked down.  The wind came up and blew them away.  Lockily the plastic is strong and so far hasn't ripped or torn.  Last year the big one blew about a quater mile away and landed in a huge hawthorn patch I thought for sure that was the end of it but nope not a single puncture.  If I didn't have all these animals I would be on my way to Hawii already but it is hard to go to Hawaii with six cats, three dogs and two horses.  
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bellla on September 08, 2007, 02:37:06 PM
I think this will make a nice addition to the discussion here.  This link takes you to a bus conversion that looks quite nice:

http://vonslatt.com/bus-main.shtml

Each of the sections is clickable for more info and pictures.  I especially like the pics of the interior.

Enjoy!

Bellla
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Homegrown Tomatoes on September 13, 2007, 05:33:05 AM
Bellla!  Good to see yet another person I know here!  DH and I are thinking of building a little house, though we're going for more than 200 ft. sq.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Bellla on September 14, 2007, 06:21:20 PM
Hi Homegrown!

Glad to see you!  I've been posting here for several years off and on.  I've sort of dropped the other forum from my rounds when they switched to the new setup and haven't quite gotten back more than a few times.

 I've been meaning to build my own 200SF but life keeps throwing me curves.  I'm hoping to start next year (says she for the umpteenth time).   When/if I finally do get a chance to break ground I will take lots of pics and probably have lots of questions.  One good thing - since getting my property I have graduated from college with a degree in Construction Management.  That means I know which end of the hammer to hold, how to order them from the distributor, make sure the crew gets them, track the crews progress, and file the necessary paperwork when they fall off a ladder.  Now to apply that to building my shed...  First I will need a hammer....

 ;)

Bellla
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jackson Landers on April 09, 2008, 08:00:41 AM
Look at this; 14 pages of posts still going on this thread about little houses under 200 square feet.  Clearly this is something that people find fascinating and have a lot to say about.

Here's my idea; John Raabe, you need to write a book about this. Full of pictures.  Find people on the forums to build each of the top designs from the contest and have them photograph them all the way through.  The book would be part coffee table book full of thoughtful, small houses, part DIY manual for people thinking about building such a thing and all inspiration for would-be owner/builders.  Try to devote a lot of attention to the details of how you make these small spaces work for everyday life and you'd also find an audience of people who live in tiny apartments and don't know how to work with the space.

Talk to Lloyd Kahn about it. He's got a publishing company and one look at his book 'Home Work' tells you that his company is very well equipped to design, publish and distribute this type of book.

Seriously, this would sell. You can push the 'green' angle and get major media outlets to review or otherwise publicize the book. With good photography, the NY Times would eat this up.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: ScottA on April 09, 2008, 08:47:12 AM
I'm planning to do something along the lines of Bart's shack as a guest cottage when I finnish my main house. I'll put the bed on the main floor though. Maybe use a sleeper/sofa.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on April 10, 2008, 09:36:58 AM
Jackson:

Thanks for the suggestion. Loyd Kahn stayed at my place on one of his trips to BC on his last book about Canadian wood butchers. What a prolific author!

It is true this a great topic and has had continued interest.

Maybe this means we should have another contest!!

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: paul s on May 09, 2008, 03:49:06 PM
i have recently come back to this thread because at our new house i am building a shed/barn building in phases.  just finishing up a 10 x 20' shed  with a shead roof   plan to extend the shed roof out 8' more  to make  one half of the roof for the 16' x 20'  "barn" on the  side of the barn will be another  10 x 20' shed which will become a small apartment as  there are acertain frw related people that usually need a place to stay  and we want our privacy.  so have  been looking at things 10' wide for ideas  will be a year or two before i build it all

the end resule will be  a 20 x 36  building in total
.
yes people keep returning to this thread
 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: wantagetaway on September 01, 2008, 10:53:20 AM
how much would one of these building cost roughly????
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on September 01, 2008, 12:59:21 PM
Doing it yourself, I think we pretty much figure depending on how thrifty you are you could do it for $30 to $50 per square foot.  Lots of variables. w* to the forum.

Scrounging everything and using natural resources from my site - dirt - rocks - donated timbers and  antique corrugated roofing and boards - sawn lumber from my mill - I did a 2 story RV garage with a loft -no permits- unfinished inside for $200 or about $.30 per square foot not counting the loft (under $.20 psf counting the loft and cupola) and my labor is of course worth nothing.  I own my own equipment so didn't count it.

That building was about 1000 sf counting the loft though.  Point being -- there are lots of variables in pricing.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: iacabin on September 03, 2008, 05:40:28 PM
A great thread.  So inspiring, I decided I needed to build a little cabin.  I look forward to sharing it with everyone.   
Andy
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on September 03, 2008, 11:19:39 PM
w* to the forum and we will be watching. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Drew on September 05, 2008, 01:07:35 PM
Is 200 sf. the standard around the nation for "Accessory Buildings" without a permit?  In my county it's 120 sf..  Even our ag buildings need a plan review as of the beginning of the year (Too many people moving into their barns.  Poor people are a pain in the butt.  Why don't they just get a loan or something? Jeez!).

Breath, Drew.  Better?  Okay, continue.  :D

Anyway, my wife, Dan, and I had an idea about building a collection of 10x12 buildings in close proximity of each other, but over the 6 or 8 foot limit imposed by the county.  We're thinking putting them on a square with the doors on a gable end and all facing the center.  In the center there would be an outdoor kitchen.  Each of the four buildings would have a special purpose.  One would be (If it was legal of course) for sleeping.  One would a shower/outhouse with a composting toilet.  It might also house the solar electric system if I can do it safely.  The other two would be home offices for herself and me.  No more mysterious stuff showing up on my desk OR magically disappearing.  Ahhh.

My dad and I have a joke about solar powered air conditioning.  While I think I'll see what else we can do to beat the summer heat besides even a small AC unit, heating or cooling a small space is easier than a big one.

The kitchen in the middle will be covered but not walled.  It will be unfriendly after dark in the rainy season, but other arrangements will necessarily be made for that.  Canned tomatoes, stuff like that.  Dirt.  Rodents.

(Side note:  Just got off the phone with the building supply store.  Our framing and roof lumber is on its way to my place.  Enjoy your AC tonight, fellow Spartans, for tomorrow we frame in Hell!")

While Dan and I had done some home improvement jobs together, Casa Guacamole was our first attempt at a free-standing structure.  Here it is, a 10'x12' built to plans from a book.

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/amhogan/Farm/Picture024.jpg)

Aside from the learning all aspects of this kind of construction there was the working with family aspect (Ahhahahahaa!).  Now after three years of experience I am only a complete jerk for the first 45 minutes of the work day.  We also learned a lot about what not to do next time and how to "componentize" a lot of this.  With four near identical buildings we should see some economies in design and reusable parts.

I'm thinking gambrel roofs for the extra space up top, but four little barns in a square?  It sounds like it might look a little, um, what's the word?  Dopey?

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Squirl on September 05, 2008, 04:17:59 PM
Drew, I have seen this before.  I have had a similar concept.  I have researched codes in NY and PA.  Most counties that I have seen in NY range from 100-140 square ft without a permit.  PA you don't need a permit or code compliance as long as it is a "camp" and not a primary residence.

There is a good diagram of the compound idea at www.balewatch.com.  Some jurisdictions don't consider a pavillion without walls a building.  You can build an open air roof over all the buildings that way.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on September 05, 2008, 07:16:43 PM
So many local variations on zoning and what size buildings require permits.

The more an area has grown in the last 40-50 years, the more restrictive the zoning and building departments are likely to be. That's the price of land and building speculation. Government steps in to protect "consumers" and "property values".

In slow growing rural areas the consumers are often the builders so protection is not asked for and government can get out the way. There things aren't much different than they were in 1968.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on September 05, 2008, 11:02:27 PM
Great Post Drew -- I like it.

Quote
"Too many people moving into their barns.  Poor people are a pain in the butt.  Why don't they just get a loan or something? Jeez!"

Not exactly what my great grandpa had in mind when he came over to the US for a better life.  When he was around, private property meant private property.

Drew - there really is such a thing as solar air conditioning.  Run into the shower - cold water of course in your T shirt and underwear.  Come out and stand in front of a solar powered fan.  It's cool.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Drew on September 07, 2008, 05:01:10 PM
I hear you, Glenn.  In the Valley we'd call that the Personal Swamp Cooler.  I think Google owns the idea now.   :-\

Squirl, you are exactly right.  I remember crawling through the Balewatch site looking for ideas on what to do for our straw bale building.  I liked the compound, but couldn't see losing the internal space to 18" walls (The county measures its 120 sf on outside dimensions.).  If we end up doing the four buildings, they will be from something besides straw bales.

BTW, the Courtyard looked pretty good too.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on September 07, 2008, 10:00:15 PM
We have friends who are going to check out your straw bale wrap method, Drew.  They are very interested.

Throw the county and their little Chinese measuring tape off of your land, Drew. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Drew on September 08, 2008, 08:28:18 AM
Okay, my Inner Capitalist just woke up (This is good coffee!)   c*

A good idea:  Camouflage roofing shingles.

Don LaFontain voiceover:  "In a world where the County Building Inspector runs your life, but gets too winded to run up the hill on your property, Google Maps becomes his tool of tyranny.  Holding court in his air conditioned cubicle he scans your homestead for something, anything, he can demand tribute for.

"One man will stand against this corruption.  One man, and a roofing nailer."

Introducing camouflage roofing shingles.  These asphalt composite units can be selected to match the buildings surroundings and make it virtually invisible from the air by aircraft and satellite imaging systems.  Comes in your choice of dried grass, oak tree, mud, and dismantled cars.

A good idea:  Snake skin print garden hoses

"Hey Honey, I'm going to the yard to water the garden.  Gaaahhh!"

Okay, maybe not a good idea.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Sassy on September 08, 2008, 10:20:13 AM
 rofl rofl rofl
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Alasdair on November 19, 2008, 07:28:32 PM
On a recent visit to Vancouver I came across this student project from Emily Carr University which made me think of this thread -

(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/alianita/countryplans/068.jpg)


(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/alianita/countryplans/069.jpg)


(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/alianita/countryplans/067.jpg)


(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/alianita/countryplans/070.jpg)


(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/alianita/countryplans/071.jpg)

The last one had a stair which led up to the sleeping platform but the box steps could be dismantled to use as furniture.
64ft is a bit tight for me but the homeless girl withthe red jacket seem to like hers ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on November 19, 2008, 08:08:24 PM
Did you buy one for the homeless girl, Al -- seems the least you could do. :)

You on this side of the pond now, Al?   If so -- who will represent Scotland? hmm
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Alasdair on November 19, 2008, 09:02:22 PM
Insert Quote
Did you buy one for the homeless girl, Al -- seems the least you could do.

You on this side of the pond now, Al?   If so -- who will represent Scotland?

Glenn,

I landed in Canada about a month ago and have been taking a look around to try and decide where we will settle. Here's my first trip http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=62374&l=ba7a1&id=595736916 (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=62374&l=ba7a1&id=595736916)

We head out to Nova Scotia next week visiting Qubec and New Brunswick on the way.

As to the Scotland rep ... I'll suggest the site to a few pals and see if anyone else will carry the flame for the old country...

The homeless girl? She was cute so I kept her ... ;)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on November 19, 2008, 10:48:27 PM
Good deal, Al.  Not often one finds one of them standing around.  Was that you leering at her from under the orange parka?

Checking out your trip on Facebook. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on November 19, 2008, 10:53:38 PM
 [cool] rotary plow engine and big old tree of some kind...  :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on November 19, 2008, 11:08:41 PM
That was cool, Al.  Nice trip and pix.  Thanks for sharing them with us.  

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jens on December 12, 2008, 07:03:54 PM
came across this site today, thought it fit in this thread pretty well.
http://www.shedworking.co.uk/2008_02_01_archive.html
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lipadier on January 31, 2009, 01:05:10 PM
Hello, new one here, stumbled over this board by accident. Great place. Those building reports over in the "Owner-Builder Projects" -forum are very interesting and addicting.

Warning: I'm a swiss-german-speaking swiss, and my english is on ground floor level so to speak, so native english speakers will get hurt when reading my text, but only on a small dose. ;)

Anyway, tiny houses. How much room does one need? Actually not that much. I designed a few tiny houses a few days ago after discovering this board and this thread among others. I designed those houses around the space parts I really use in my much bigger real living quarters. Funny fact: I actually live in my bed. My bed is the center of the universe. Coming home, showering, eating, bed. My living room: Bed. My computer work desk: Bed. My home cinema is also in my bedroom. Classic male nest, visited from the girlfriend at the weekends.

The first project: Ground floor can be expanded for a living room. If you need one.  ;)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Grundrisse.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Fassaden_Südwest.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Fassaden_Südost.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Fassaden_Nordwest.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Küche.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Essraum.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Gang1.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Gang2.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Badtüre.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Badezimmer.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Schlafraum_1.jpg)
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Schlafraum_2.jpg)

This wood texture I use in most of my designs in project stage, because the vast amount of lines gives you the 3D-feeling for the dimension and size of the rooms. The upper floor is not fully thought thru, but needs only little changes around the stairs. From the outside this tiny house is a but of an ugly duckling, but hey, one lives inside anyway.  ;D

Greetings, lipadier. More to come. A bit bigger ones also.



Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jens on January 31, 2009, 03:23:24 PM
Nice design work there.  If I were single, and childless, I'd build one.  Finally, someone that I don't have to explain the pronunciation of my name to.   w*
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on January 31, 2009, 04:38:34 PM
Finally, someone that I don't have to explain the pronunciation of my name to.   w*

Yens as in Yonas. (Jonas)  right?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on January 31, 2009, 07:36:10 PM
Cool design lipadier.  w* to the forum.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lipadier on January 31, 2009, 08:28:33 PM
Thanks for the welcoming. Is it ok to put my designs in this thread, or should I start a new one?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: ScottA on January 31, 2009, 08:33:51 PM
Very sharp looking design. Why no window at the kitchen sink?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lipadier on January 31, 2009, 08:47:31 PM
Because I simply forgot. ;)

There you go:
(http://pic.phyrefile.com/l/li/lipadier/2009/01/31/Window.jpg)


Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on January 31, 2009, 09:54:56 PM
As long as they are under 200 SF then this thread is fine.  If over - start a new one.

You probably deal in meters don't you?  You can get it close - I'm a bit lazy for meters. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on January 31, 2009, 09:56:03 PM
Very sharp looking design. Why no window at the kitchen sink?

He doesn't have a backhoe to park outside of it to look at, Scott. :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: ScottA on February 01, 2009, 06:50:01 AM
I didn't think of that Glenn. Explains alot.  d*
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jens on February 03, 2009, 09:23:04 AM
[
Yens as in Yonas. (Jonas)  right?

I think Jonas is Jonah.  Jens is John.  Hebrew, and Danish (as well as other Germanic, and nordic) pronounce J's as Y's.  My grandfather's name was Jens Jorgen Juhl.  How is that for a mouthful. 

Lip, your design here is quite nice.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on February 03, 2009, 10:44:47 AM
pronounce J's as Y's.  My grandfather's name was Jens Jorgen Juhl.  How is that for a mouthful. 

come to the SW and the J becomes an H
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: mikeschn on April 03, 2009, 04:11:20 PM
Has anyone ever looked at those folding houses?

Mike...
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Phssthpok on May 13, 2009, 08:57:14 PM
On a recent visit to Vancouver I came across this student project from Emily Carr University which made me think of this thread -

(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/alianita/countryplans/068.jpg)

*snip*

64ft is a bit tight for me but the homeless girl withthe red jacket seem to like hers ;)

New here. Thought you might be interested in the adventures of someone I know who is currently living in less than 64 sqft (http://crackerscentral.com/wordpress/?p=1298) in the mountains of Montana no less.

In his own words:


Quote
The size of the place was dictated by the fact that I had never built anything from the ground up before, and the fact that I am very limited on funding.  It was also the biggest that I could be confident of getting built by winter with a very small labor pool.  My daughter helped with the layout and framing, my ex helped get the roof on.  I did everything else, due mostly to my irrational "do it myselfish" streak.  I really learned a lot.

The solar panels total 12 watts, 2 6v batteries have a total of 200 amp hours at 12v, several cheap 12v incandescent bulbs give light at the head of each bunk plus 1 ceiling light inside and one over the porch.  I took the batteries to work about every other week last winter to top them off.  They are holding up well so far this summer.  I can watch a movie once a week and not drop the voltage below 12.4v. There is also a small 120v inverter screwad to the wall by the breaker box to run drills and such.

Heat is a 20,000 btu unvented "Blue Flame" heater from Harbor Freight.  Last winter used 2 100lb tanks of propane (about 20 gallons each) to keep it around 60 degrees.  The roof only had one layer of r-19 insulation, but now has 4 layers.  The walls and floor are r-19.

The puppy currently sleeps on her bed on the floor.  In winter she gets the bottom bunk and I move to the top, but she prefers to sleep out in the snow unless it is really cold.  When inside, she can almost heat the place. Energetic little mutt.

There are several cases of food under the bed along with 50lb of rice, 50+lb of beans, 30lb of pasta, 15 gallon jugs of distilled water and lots of other stuff.  It is just over half full, so I have to buy more food. Smiley

If I had it to do over, I would have built it 8x12 instead of having the covered porch.  I will eventually build a "big" house, likely 16x20, maybe with a loft.  Someday.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Truly Hybrid Homes on May 19, 2009, 12:03:46 PM
Is anyone still visiting this site?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on May 24, 2009, 09:47:12 AM
People refer to this topic often.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: coralfarmin on July 07, 2009, 11:13:11 AM
hi new here..sorry to be askin dumb questions to start, but can anyone convert that set of last pictures to feet..the set of pictures by lipadier

that is a awsome design to me..how high are the top side walls on each end of the top and shed, roof pitch, etc..

anyone know how to rewrite it in feet and elaborate on, stair size, inside walls, etc in feet ...or could u please lipadier...that is a cool design...as well as all the rest

please..and thank you

kind regards
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lipadier on July 07, 2009, 02:49:16 PM
Hi, thanks for the compliments.  ;D
More small house designs in my thread: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6241.00
I have added in there lately more detailed floor plans for the small cabin seen in here.

1 meter is 3.2808 US-feet.
For guessing the height in my 3D-renderings: The point of view is always on real life eye level, that's around 1.68 meter above the floor for a male adult, = 5.5 feet.

Greetings, lipadier

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: coralfarmin on July 07, 2009, 06:16:11 PM
woow..saw the other designs..great job, what would the side wall hieghts be
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: coralfarmin on July 07, 2009, 06:29:43 PM
so..about 5.5 on top loft..how high at bottom standard 8 ft ? ???
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lipadier on July 10, 2009, 03:01:15 AM
so..about 5.5 on top loft..how high at bottom standard 8 ft ? ???

No, a bit lower, 7 feet.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: ToddSInGA on July 26, 2009, 05:46:14 PM
I'd love to see this thread continue on, lots of great ideas for a first time builder looking at the minimalistic approach!
Title: Barts Cottage
Post by: bpaar on October 02, 2009, 05:26:48 PM
New member, been lurking for some time.
I have been playing with Sketch 7 this week, here are a few images that illustrate how small these houses are (they easily fit inside a 2 car garage). Thanks Bart.
Bill
(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/bpaar55/Bartsv1a-3.jpg)
(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/bpaar55/Bartsv1a-4.jpg)
(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/bpaar55/Bartsv1a-2.jpg)
(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/bpaar55/Bartsv1a-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on October 02, 2009, 09:46:00 PM
w* to the forum.  Yup - they are small.  Nice renderings.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on October 02, 2009, 11:07:22 PM
Nice Job bparr!

Great study model.

I don't know if Bart Cubbins, the 2nd place contest winner is still visiting this site but he would love to see your work.

http://www.countryplans.com/contest.html
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Squirl on October 05, 2009, 10:03:51 AM
Very nice design. [cool]
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: lipadier on October 05, 2009, 10:39:08 AM
bpaar, that's a very good looking plan.
Especially the entrance/bathroom part is very well done.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: bpaar on October 06, 2009, 03:46:00 AM
Quote
bpaar, that's a very good looking plan.
Especially the entrance/bathroom part is very well done.

The plan is very clever. Bart Cubbins is the designer (this is his version 1a). I may have reversed the location of the vanity/wc , but otherwise followed his plan to practice using sketch.

Bill
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on October 09, 2009, 08:58:32 AM
Here is an interesting design I found while searching for "Tiny houses"

http://www.familyhomeplans.com/plan_details.cfm?PlanNumber=69800&src=search#image-slideshow

(http://images.familyhomeplans.com/plans/69800/69800-B600.jpg)

Plan

(http://images.familyhomeplans.com/plans/69800/69800-1L.gif)

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Pritch on October 09, 2009, 02:19:42 PM
Here is an interesting design I found while searching for "Tiny houses"

That's a clever plan.  I notice there is a mud room/shower inside but no toilet facilities, but it wouldn't be hard to modify the floor plan. 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on October 09, 2009, 02:33:01 PM
Yes, I expect this little cabin is quite rustic and probably has an outhouse. It wouldn't have to be too much larger to have a real bath (but you probably wouldn't have it be a major access route like it is here).
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: ScottA on October 09, 2009, 04:57:01 PM
Nice little cabin. The siding looks familiar.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on October 17, 2009, 09:55:12 AM
(http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/cusato-cottage-kc-3081.jpg)

Nice floorplan for a Little House (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/29.html) type project. These have evolved from Katrina Cottages with more information from the the Tiny House Design site here:
http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/2008/06/22/cusato-cottages/
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: LaMar Alexander on December 03, 2009, 06:28:50 PM
My cabin is 14 X 14 and under 200 sqft foot print so I could avoid a building permit.  It is considered a "dry" cabin or vacation cabin because there are no utility hook ups. Powered by solar and wind. Propane for fridge, stove, furnace, and OD water heater. Solar composting toilet of my own design.

Kitchen, bathroom, dining area and living area downstairs. Large bedroom and office upstairs. Patty and I and 3 dogs and a cat live here very comfortably year round.

Built from all new materials for under $2000 not including windows and doors which were salvaged.

When designing a small home you have to be very efficient in your use of space and standard  appliances may not work. I salvaged the stove, sink, water tank, pump and lights from an old RV which are smaller and work well. Furniture can be multi use and futon beds, rollaway cabinets, rv shower stalls and ladders will help keep the clutter down.

No house payments and no monthly utility bills and very low property taxes- life is great!

(http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/lamars%20019.JPG)

(http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/pic016.JPG)

(http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/pic013.JPG)

(http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/pic023.JPG)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on December 03, 2009, 06:55:38 PM
Nice cabin. Simple classic construction.

Unfortunately, LaMar has been banned from the forum for his unwillingness to abide by our no advertising policy.

He has built a nice cabin though!
 
Title: Re: Barts Cottage
Post by: Davidogg on December 15, 2009, 06:02:46 AM
New member, been lurking for some time.
I have been playing with Sketch 7 this week, here are a few images that illustrate how small these houses are (they easily fit inside a 2 car garage). Thanks Bart.

Any chance the sketch 7 data file could be made available? I've become obsessed with this floor plan ever since
I first saw it here.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Jens on December 15, 2009, 04:44:41 PM
Nice cabin. Simple classic construction.

Unfortunately, LaMar has been banned from the forum for his unwillingness to abide by our no advertising policy.

He has built a nice cabin though!
 

Again?  Oy gevalt!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on December 16, 2009, 07:41:35 AM
One page 17 of this thread Bill Parr had posted images of the SketchUp model of Barts Cottage he was working with.

(http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/bpaar55/Bartsv1a-3.jpg)

Today, Bill has shared the SketchUp file and it can be downloaded here: http://www.countryplans.com/Downloads/Barts.zip

This is a large zip file and should be saved to your own computer. The upzipped (extracted) file can be opened and viewed by SketchUp ver. 7

Here is a link to the free SketchUp program: http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/gsu7/download.html

Thanks to Bill  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Davidogg on December 16, 2009, 03:20:49 PM
Today, Bill has shared the SketchUp file and it can be downloaded here: http://www.countryplans.com/Downloads/Barts.zip

This is a large zip file and should be saved to your own computer. The upzipped (extracted) file can be opened and viewed by SketchUp ver. 7

Here is a link to the free SketchUp program: http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/gsu7/download.html

Thanks to Bill  :D :D :D

Sweetness, thanks!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on January 05, 2010, 10:28:34 PM
Hello, I'm posting here for the first time in a long time -- I couldn't get logged in, but came across Glenn on another forum, and he kindly helped sort things out! 

I'm hoping to actually build something on the 200 s.f. scale this summer.  Have to build a new chicken coop first, but that may be a hoop house.  My daughter and I are still living with my grandmother (she's now 96!), and I'd like to have a quiet retreat that's our own space; it would also take some of our belongings and give us more space in the house.  It's got to be mobile, so will probably have to be on a trailer frame.  At least that way, we'll be able to take it with us when we get our own place someday. 

I've been playing with a variation of Mark's winning design in a program called Sweet Home 3D -- a freebie, limited but useful.  I wish it could make roofs, but otherwise isn't bad for dinking around.  It's a little easier to use than SketchUp, although SketchUp is more advanced and can do more. 

Anyway, glad to see that this thread is still active!

Kathleen
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on January 05, 2010, 11:18:06 PM
Glad to have you back here, Kathleen.  You always add value to our forum.  I don't spend a lot of time with draw programs - mostly a do it in my head sort of guy. [ouch]

I'm working out of town this week so not on a lot.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: soomb on January 31, 2010, 08:33:47 PM
Here is an interesting design I found while searching for "Tiny houses"

http://www.familyhomeplans.com/plan_details.cfm?PlanNumber=69800&src=search#image-slideshow

(http://images.familyhomeplans.com/plans/69800/69800-B600.jpg)

Plan

(http://images.familyhomeplans.com/plans/69800/69800-1L.gif)


That home, with additional photos was featured in a magazine... Sunset I think.  (this was back during dial up internet) Searched out the firm and call and was able to speak the the architect directly and he could not have been nicer!!  I think since then this cabin had been in a few books, but I would guess he is still approachable to answer a basic question or two.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on January 31, 2010, 09:50:38 PM
Nice.

I especially like the double french doors at the front. Really opens up a little house.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on February 03, 2010, 10:41:29 AM
It has a pretty spacious kitchen, too, for such a small house.  That's a nice feature -- it seems like kitchens get short shrift since so many people don't really cook anymore.

Kathleen

ETA:  Now that I've looked at the page with more pictures, I like it even better -- I really like the way they've used plywood for interior paneling (although I think I would use wood battens rather than metal).
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Solar Burrito on February 04, 2010, 03:23:50 PM
Hi I'm really impressed with everyone's ideas. My building skills are non-existence right now but I just ordered this cabin kit from a local company. I needed a 200 sq plan with a loft and feel in love with this simple design. It includes local delivery from a local source. It's not pre-cut but designed to have minimal cuts. I'm recycling my old aluminum windows, so I will have less than than pictured.

I am planning to use lots of these ideas above, especially the one right above, The bump out for the kitchen with the serving bar is great even though we could mostly outside.

(http://www.pennypincherbarns.com/Portals/0/cabins/owlsclovercolor.jpg)

I want to use t-111 siding on the lower 4' then cedar shakes above.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: psammy on February 11, 2010, 12:15:13 PM
Cool contest. 

Not sure if anyone has brought this up, but depending on how 200 sf is defined in local codes it could mean to the inside of the exterior wall system.  I know that's how area is defined in my city zoning codes.  It would add a little more precious area to a tight design.

psammy
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on February 15, 2010, 07:09:46 PM
Cool contest. 

Not sure if anyone has brought this up, but depending on how 200 sf is defined in local codes it could mean to the inside of the exterior wall system.  I know that's how area is defined in my city zoning codes.  It would add a little more precious area to a tight design.

psammy

You really do have to check your local codes.  I'm not certain here, but pretty sure it's the footprint.  Someone else up in Washington found that in his area it was the aerial measurement, in other words, include the eave overhang!  I WISH it was to the inside of the exterior wall system here, because I'd like to use cob, which makes thick walls!  In a 200 s.f. building, you'd lose a lot of floor space with walls a foot or more thick!

Kathleen
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Drew on April 12, 2010, 04:25:26 PM
The rules in Butte County, CA say 120 sf. on the exterior dimensions.   You can forget about a straw bale building if you plan to lie down.   :-\

However, I've seen plans that take a number of non-permit sized houses and placed them rather close together but not touching (Some codes require 6' or 10' distance).  But then you can get one as a bunk house, one as a showerhouse/outhosue, one as an offiec, etc.

You gotta like builing and hate permitting though.  Oh yeah.  Right.  :)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Freeholdfarm on April 14, 2010, 06:20:45 PM
Codes here require at least 6' between structures, and that includes the roof line, so you can't connect two small structures with a porch.  Unless, of course, you don't mind getting a permit.

Kathleen
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: cbc58 on April 20, 2010, 03:32:38 PM
Here's one I found on another site... 12x16.  click on picture to enlarge....

http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/6_277_0.html
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on April 20, 2010, 04:36:52 PM
Very nice little 12x16 cabin. Thanks to cbc58 :D (see link in previous post).

(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/jraabe/bigfish.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: curiousalexa on June 15, 2010, 05:11:50 AM
Latecomer to the game here.  I've been working on a bunch of different plans, trying to decide which one I'm actually going to build!  I had a couple of them scanned at Staples so I could share them - the next few I might try just taking a picture of. 

I'll post them one at a time.  I would love to get some feedback on my ideas! 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: curiousalexa on June 15, 2010, 05:37:43 AM
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_JebwUq2CEzo/TBdvHI7N5MI/AAAAAAAAAGA/VcySGpX7XaM/s144/Cabin14x14.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/27r4vfnmLuk0KnTIV756h85MjMpKa5EACzC8zSuCr6g?feat=embedwebsite)

This is a 14x14 cabin, for a grand total of 196 sq ft.  I do not intend to install plumbing or electric; water is captured from the roof, then brought inside in 5-7 gallon containers placed on high shelves for gravity dispensing.  Lighting is oil lamps.  Games are cards, not Nintendos [g].

The bathroom is a "wet bath" in camper speak - no separate shower, just a drain in the floor.  There is a door between the woodstove and kitchen for access to a future greenhouse on the south side of the cabin.  The window over the desk is designed to be easily convertible to a doorway for potential future expansion. 

There are a couple different markings for windows - I was playing around with the exterior elevations and looking at symmetrical options. 

Thoughts, comments? 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on June 15, 2010, 10:56:53 AM
Looks interesting and practical for what you want.  Positive plans to build it?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: curiousalexa on June 15, 2010, 01:48:15 PM
Positive plans to build *something*! [g]  I've been deconstructing a 1920s era carriage house a couple towns away for materials, and just made a huge score at an auction on a pile of very mixed lumber.  Fortunately the gal I'm renting the land from is a friend who is willing to let me use her garage and yard for storing materials. 

More sketches later.  (I think I'm up to 5 floor plan ideas, including one I've previously built.) 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on June 15, 2010, 02:24:17 PM
Sounds great.  Looking forward to more.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: curiousalexa on June 16, 2010, 10:30:29 AM
Sorry I'm not too quick at this posting business.  I'm not trying to tease with floorplans/designs, honest! [g] 

A 16x16, which at 256 sq feet wouldn't have been eligible for the contest but I think fits into the general theme of this thread. 

This one is a variation on the 14x14, with an emphasis on larger open flexible space.  I have a history of re-arranging my furniture fairly frequently, and so I was trying to blend that flexibility with a small space.  (Note: the 14x14 is intended to have a shed roof; the 16x16 has a gable roof.  I did not get the elevation drawings scanned as I was feeling cheap that day.) 

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JebwUq2CEzo/TBdvIYB7fuI/AAAAAAAAAGE/ex6Yk1hCEZs/s144/Cabin16x16.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/z8Jo12RHN_P7EMnvAoL03M5MjMpKa5EACzC8zSuCr6g?feat=embedwebsite)

The kitchen counter runs along one wall up to the bathroom, again an RV-style wet-bath (all of my designs have that - I'm reluctant to spend space on a separate tub or shower, much as I'm reluctant to spend space on an entire room just for being unconscious!)  Personally, I plan to have a wood stove as I live in a wooded area that has plenty of fuel free for the labor of taking.  The rest of the space is unstructured.  IIRC, entrance is West, with the gable end extended over a porch where I have lovely mountain views. 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on June 16, 2010, 11:12:10 AM
I've upped the contrast and loaded the 14x14 floor plan image to Photobucket for posting here.

(http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/countryplans/14x14-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: curiousalexa on June 17, 2010, 03:44:24 AM
Thank you John!  I don't have any software for changing the images.  Is it possible to put an image directly in the post, rather than linking to an external photo-host? 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on June 17, 2010, 06:02:04 AM
There is no room for storage of images on the forum so we use Photobucket.  Accounts are free there and uploads are easy.  If you can see it on your screen you can easily make a JPEG image that loads to Photobucket fast using Gadwin Printscreen, a free program.

http://www.gadwin.com/download/ps_setup.exe

I set preferences in it to F5 as my hot key, copy rectangular area, save to file, and it saves them to a printscreen file folder.  I name them an easily recognizable name then save and upload them.  The bottom option on the Photobucket image with the IMG tag will cause it to show up directly in your posting.  There is a tutorial on Photobucket -older- in forum news by Mtn Don.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: WoodSprite on July 07, 2010, 09:53:35 AM
Also getting late into the game... here's our little cabin, 8x8 plus a window seat bump-out and a tiny front porch:


http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy218/maudlynne/cabin-1.jpg[/img]](http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy218/maudlynne/cabin-1.jpg) (http://[IMG)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on July 20, 2010, 08:10:43 AM
That is a cool little cabin, Woodsprite.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Texas Tornado on August 11, 2010, 03:20:49 PM
(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos/CopperCabin_FlrPlan_WEB.jpg)
10'x22'

(http://www.tinyhousecompany.com/Photos/CopperTop_Complete_WEB.jpg)

Mounted on trailer for easy relocation. The home can be removed from the trailer and set onto a permanent foundation. Trailer can be licensed for over the road transport. Trailer has two-3500 pound axles, brakes on one axle. 2-5/8” trailer ball, mechanical tongue jack. Trailer can be towed with half ton pickup with a Class III weight distributing hitch, or with a heavy duty pickup truck with Class III hitch.


Where are the pics?  ???
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on August 13, 2010, 01:28:21 PM
This is one of the problems encountered with images on forums. Links to the source of the images can sometimes go stale, go dead. Sometimes it's because the webpage they were on has been modified. Sometimes the web album has been modified as the owner has run out of space. Other times it is because the person no longer has the site. That's what has happened here. The only way around that would be to have all images uploaded to the CountryPlans Forum server. That has many potential issues; disk space required to store them is one major concern. Managing the uploads to ensure they are virus free, no hidden nasty trojans and the like is another big concern. So from time to time we will have images do their own little disappearing act. It's too bad, but hard to get away from.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jpatti on September 11, 2010, 04:07:18 PM
(http://ornery-geeks.org/images/forum/trailer.jpg)
I know the contest is over, but I don't care.  ;)  I love this thread, have reread it several times over the years, and now have something to contribute.

My design is built on top of a 20 foot trailer with the entire flatbed over the wheelwalls so as to use all of the 102" width allowed for towed vehicles.  Here's an example of the trailer type: http://www.allprowest.com/files/20_Flat_Deck_Deckover_Equipment_Trailer.pdf (though I have no use for those ramps)

So the outside footprint is 170 sq ft. This is not large for an RV, but because it's stickbuilt, it'll be heavy.  I figure it can be pulled wth a F-250 pickup.

I looked at a few hundred RV floorplans and a lot of the Tumbleweed stuff and related links, and lots of what I want was not addressed in any floorplan I saw.

This plan is for me and my husband and thus planned for what we consider important.

The Tumbleweed guy doesn't seem to cook.  While I would not be doing pressure canning and grinding my own grain in this trailer, there's room to REALLY cook, with an apartment-sized range and fridge. 

All the floorplans I looked at annoyed me with the waste of space by interior walls, built-in cabinets and bookshelves - an enclosed shower and refrigerator are "walls" between which I site a composting toilet with a simple shower curtain in front of it. 

I do not see us using either the shower or toilet often.  When traveling, we will often be staying at campgrounds with facilities.  When we buy our own land and park this, we will build an outhouse and a showerhouse almsot immediatly.  So in my mind, the shower and composting toilet are largely for occasional use.

I do not want to climb into a loft to sleep; I'm disabled (though not wheelcheer bound) so a loft is not happenning.  I wanted a queen sized bed that you could actually walk around, permanently setup, not needing to convert from something else.  It's just too uncomfortable otherwise.

So... I designed my own after deciding everything I didn't like about all the other floorplans I saw.  This is a very rough floorplan designed with floorplan.com software.

It will be RV-like in the sense that the batteries and a couple 20 lb propane tanks will be situated on the tow-bar.  Most of the RVs I've seen have a cover you have to put over the window on the tow end, and I didn't think we'd be likely to put that on and off, so just left that wall blank.  There will be a small cabinet door over the tow bar to access the area under the center of the queen bed.  That will be outside storage for things like our dining tent, camping chairs, etc.

My design assumes 6" walls.  I'm thinking 2x4 framing sideways as interior walls are generally done, simple vinyl siding outside and thin paneling inside, stuffed with insulation in between.  Insulation in the floor when the deck is built, likely vinyl sheet flooring.  And the roof will be open rafters, same paneling as the walls laid on top to hold insulation and a metal roof.

One wall is higher than the other to allow for a shed roof.  The software used has some limitations in that a wall can only be one height the whole length so the end walls are screwed up in the external views.  Also, those aren't the windows I want, I want double sash windows. It's going to look like a house like the cute little Tumbleweeds do.

Though realistically, I will use what I can scrounge or get sheap.  This is one reason for looking at normal-sized stuff, rather than RV-specific stuff. 

In the floorplan, the big grey space near the bed is my kitchen cabinet.  Hubby built me my ultimate kitchen cabinet in our current rental home, customized to my exact specifications.  We'll build a lighter weight one for the trailer  and bolt it directly to the wall.  Here's the cabinet: http://www.ornery-geeks.org/home/pictures/kitchencabinet/ - the upper doors on that will open over the bed space on one side and over the range on the other. 

I've been living with this cabinet for 4 years and it's awesome.  The only improvement I can think of is it would be nice if the bottom shelves pulled out.  But otherwise, I really lvoe the thing, everything you ened is at hand from one countertop (built higher than normal so i don't tear up my back chopping veggies).

The back of the cabinet will have a hole to the wall with a surge protector mounted at the top, so it can hold things like my microwave, coffemaker, etc. win the back and still give me plenty of counter top for food prep. The other thing we will do differently versus the home version is put a lip across the bottom of the shelves so if we're parked not perfectly flat, we don't have stuff falling out.  There is more than enough storage for real cooking supplies plus dry goods in this sucker.

Storage of other than kitchen stuff is not shown in the floorplan.  Drawers under the queen bed on each side will only pull out so far.  The center of the bed area will be outside storage as described above on one end and space for a litter box on the inside for our cats (with a lip at the bottom, in hopes that the whole trialer doesn't wind up with litter in it).

I put a door near the queen sized bed just cause I am not happy with only one exit.  We plan to put a metal ladder under the trailer to be able to step in.  Inside will be hooks for broom and mop, and a couple for hanging clothes. It will mostly be an emergency exit, not a real entrance.

Hubby has suggested flipping the entire thing 180 degrees so both entrances are on the curb-side, which we will probably do but I was too lazy to redo the floorplan to show that.  ;)

The dinette will be built with the cushions on tops removing for storage underneath and with cabinets overhead on the outside walls.  The dinette will be not only our eating place, but our "desks".  We spend more time at desks than we do at the ktichen table now.  In fact, we will likely have a server under one of those dinette benches with a wireless router.

There's no plan for a TV because I assume we will use laptops at the dinette to watch DVDs.  We don't really watch TV now in a rental home except for DVDs, so assume we won't then either. 

The entry is in the back.  I love the little porches on Tumbleweed houses, so did one of those.  Hubby is arguing with me about the waste of space, but... I think it's practical also, with such a tiny space, if your boots are muddy, you need to be take them off outside, and be standing on a clean floor with a roof if there's weather to do it.  But honestly, I just adore the porches on the Tumbleweeds as too terribly cute and just want it mostly for the look.  The stairs will attach at the top on hinges, so they can be pulled up and stored on the porch when traveling. 

The sink is a single sink, but actually deep with a real faucet. Next to the sink is a marine propane heater.  Under the sink is an on-demand propane water heater and water pump.  Over the range will be a removable shelf so I have counter space when doing dishes.

One of the disadvantages of my setup is that the refrigerator is pretty far from all the rest of the propane appliances, and both hot and cold water plus a drain will have to be plumbed to the shower, pretty far from the sink.  I couldn't get it to workout otherwise.

Because of choosing a composting toilet, we will avoid all the hassle of a blackwater tank, but will have a to mount water storage and greywater tanks under the trailer.

Most of the lighting will be overhead, hanging from rafters, as will a couple fans.

We assume solar panels, but not mounted on the roof.  The batteries will be recharged when driving.  When parked, the solar panels can be setup in the sun while we park in the shade.  Electric will be normal 120, so we can swtich from battery/inverter to city power via an extension cord.

I think the amount of windows and the shed roof will give a feeling of space in spite of how tiny it is. 

When I envision living in this, the two most annoying things I see are... when we both enter, one person has to continue for a while in order for the other to get in and shut the door.  The other is, if I am cooking and he needs to use the john, that will be less than pleasant.  But we used to drive tractor trailers over-the-road and lived in a much smaller space without getting divorced, so we'll manage.

Anytime we're parked more than a day, we will set up our dining tent.  I'll likely buy a chunk of outdoor carpet to put down out there also.  It will nearly double our living space.

When we buy land, I want to build an L-shaped deck going around the sides where the doors are. 

Thoughts and advice are welcome.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Lexarn on October 28, 2010, 06:41:00 PM
This is a link to an online article about a very cute tiny summer cabin built in Canada. I thought folks on this forum might be interested.
I hope it's ok to share it in this way.

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/sf/house-tours/four-people-and-a-dog-living-in-180-square-feet-home-away-from-home-tour-123518

Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: altaoaks on December 05, 2010, 05:35:41 PM
hi jpatti, you rock!  i was just browsing a place called little house on a trailer, its in northern calif.  same idea.  after finding my building permit would run us about $20,000 i was looking for a option until we could manage the permit fee and build too.

i went back into this thread to re-think what we are doing, and was amazed to find your post.  thank you so much.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: paul s on January 30, 2011, 12:15:58 PM
has anyone ever buit the wiining entry or the second place one.  would like to see photos o the irst place one  mostly the interior.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: speedfunk on January 30, 2011, 12:21:47 PM
Woodsprite your build looks awesome.  I once in a while check your site , i guess you have been progressing..nice job.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: considerations on May 08, 2011, 06:56:43 AM
This is pretty cool....add a little more space, like 4m x 4m and it could be luxurious.

http://www.cubeproject.org.uk/ 
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: jharleyhammond on June 16, 2011, 04:31:50 PM
http://www.olsonkundigarchitects.com/Projects/825/Rolling-Huts#

Don't know if these have been mentioned yet & I can't say I like the looks, but in reading some of this thread, folks mentioned the concept of the rv type structure to get around building code obstacles. I believe the architects put these cabins on wheels so they could get around the building codes in Okanogan County. I think it was something about building in a flood plain, but am not sure on that.

Harley
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: tinybackyardhouse on July 26, 2011, 11:48:23 AM
We're building a 12x10 tiny house in our backyard
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10664.0
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: considerations on February 03, 2012, 11:37:08 AM
This young man gets kudos from me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXDu2U-CmkI&feature=related
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: cbc58 on February 12, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
nice tiny mobile house design:

http://www.protohaus.moonfruit.com/#/protohaus/4534267679
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: soomb on September 04, 2012, 04:35:24 PM
http://robinfalck.com/ (http://robinfalck.com/) Nido "Bird's nest" a young designer from Finland.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Solar Burrito on November 16, 2012, 04:38:55 PM
Here's an update on our 200 square foot cabin. It's mostly done (a little more done than this picture from last year). It's 200' minus the deck you see here.

You can read more about our cabin project here, and watch a few videos. I used this countryplans site to learn how to build it. http://solarburrito.com/blog/category/our-cabin/ (http://solarburrito.com/blog/category/our-cabin/)

(http://solarburrito.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IMG_2504-1024x764.jpg)

(http://solarburrito.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IMG_2506-1024x764.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Geotechnics on March 08, 2013, 11:32:39 PM
I love this.. ;D
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: poppy on June 26, 2013, 02:36:12 PM
Talk about your tiny houses

(http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/poppy3640/7ece8805-b21e-4edb-874d-6e809fa10c5d.jpg) (http://s650.photobucket.com/user/poppy3640/media/7ece8805-b21e-4edb-874d-6e809fa10c5d.jpg.html)

(http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/poppy3640/insidetinyhouse.jpg) (http://s650.photobucket.com/user/poppy3640/media/insidetinyhouse.jpg.html)

Here is the web site.  http://www.domusweb.it/en/architecture/2013/06/13/renzo_piano_diogene.html
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on June 27, 2013, 05:41:25 PM
Nifty project. Very tidy.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 27, 2013, 07:31:18 AM
OK, the point has been made. Thanks for your input and your interesting design but don't overpost the same links as you wear out the message.

There was a design, I thought it was by Les Walker (American Shelter) in the late 70's, but it may be in Lloyd Kahn's "Tiny Homes" book. The idea is for an "inside out house" that had a tiny core house with sleeping quarters but the mechanicals were all positioned on the outside and the roof panels over the kitchen and bathing areas folded down and locked up when leaving the camp. Everything was out in the open and living was outside most of the time - Gypsy type living. There wasn't room for chairs inside. This was a very compact design and would work as a small trailer.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on July 27, 2013, 08:21:39 AM
Here are some solutions to the 200 sf limit that are being done as kits and prebuilt designs.

http://tinyhouseblog.com/stick-built/showcase-sheds-tiny-house/

(http://tinyhouseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/dara-tiny-house.jpg)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: samiam on August 05, 2013, 05:54:09 AM
Hi. I'm posting to this thread since it seems to largely concern the topic of my question. If a mod thinks that it is more appropriate (or would get more/better answers) elsewhere, I invite relocating it. I want to build a simple, 192 sq ft (12' x 16') multi-purpose, one-room building on some off-grid land I own in the Virginia mountains. Building is to serve as temporary shelter (camping-style; I currently have an old, beat-up travel trailer there that has become hopelessly mouse-infested) for the next couple of years, then long term storage. The roof is to be 12:12 gable with the ridge beam on the 16' dimension. I would like to have a partial loft (no knee walls) with portable ladder access. Metal roofing is desired, with a high probability of adding some photovoltaic panels, post construction. I intend to put the building on concrete piers. I would like an 8' wall using 2 x 4 studs 16" OC, and to use T111 for sheathing and siding. I want to build something that will last more than a few years with adequate maintenance, but economy of construction is essential. I intend to do the final design myself, but I would like to buy a good set of plans to crib from for a building reasonably similar to what I am planning as a sanity check. From a brief perusal of the Country Plans site, I've tentatively concluded that the Victoria Cottage plans would serve this purpose. If there is a plan set better suited to this application, I'd appreciate some guidance. Other observations and comments are welcome, however, the basic parameters of my building are somewhat fixed, for a number of reasons relating to the site and situation. Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on August 05, 2013, 08:05:50 AM
I would suggest the 12' wide version of the Little House plans (http://www.countryplans.com/jshow.com/y2k/listings/29.html) would be closer to what you want to build than the Victoria plans. For your project I would suggest using deeper concrete piers to get below frost line and you may have to size the ridge beam for the local snow load, but you would have most of what you need (and it's a less expensive set of plans).

John R
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: samiam on August 05, 2013, 09:23:04 AM
Fantastic. Exactly the advice I was looking for. Thanks!


P.S., bonus materials look very useful as well - ordered.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: pocono_couple on February 16, 2015, 05:06:44 AM
(http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt71/pocono_couple/th88_zps6e5a5214.jpg) (http://s599.photobucket.com/user/pocono_couple/media/th88_zps6e5a5214.jpg.html)

I have posted the details of this build  at  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13525.0   on this site. 

It was a lot of fun to build this little house during the summer of  2014.   Its intended use was a place to call home base and maybe stay a night or two a week  at my in-law's  orchard where my wife works, but it turned out to be much more permanent than that.   We have actually been there almost full time since July of 2014 with the exception of the month of December.    The dimensions are  8 by 16  with a loft that is  a little more than half of the total footprint.     It does not have a bathroom because we are able to use the  orchard bathroom which is close by.    We do have a portipotti  for middle of the night needs!    There is a 14k vented gas heater installed which turns out to be way more than necessary - very toasty in the loft!   

Since the photos, I have installed a sink with a pump faucet that is connected to a 5 gallon water jug.    Don't hesitate to ask any questions!   jt
(http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt71/pocono_couple/th78_zps73a1fa21.jpg) (http://s599.photobucket.com/user/pocono_couple/media/th78_zps73a1fa21.jpg.html)

(http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt71/pocono_couple/th72_zpsc6e1e1f5.jpg) (http://s599.photobucket.com/user/pocono_couple/media/th72_zpsc6e1e1f5.jpg.html)

(http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt71/pocono_couple/th77_zpsa9576ed9.jpg) (http://s599.photobucket.com/user/pocono_couple/media/th77_zpsa9576ed9.jpg.html)

(http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt71/pocono_couple/th76_zpse323bcc7.jpg) (http://s599.photobucket.com/user/pocono_couple/media/th76_zpse323bcc7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: John Raabe on February 16, 2015, 07:34:16 AM
A handsome project and a very workable small house. Congrats!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: Redoverfarm on February 16, 2015, 07:56:54 AM
Jason the cabin turned out great.  Have you ever figured out a ball park figure of the cost?
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on February 16, 2015, 09:25:53 AM
Very nice!  [cool]
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: pocono_couple on February 16, 2015, 11:30:49 AM
thanks guys..   we spent around 10k altogether..     I was trying to keep a detailed account.. but  i tend to lose interest in things like that. get back from the  lumberyard and stuff the receipt in my pocket as I quickly get back to work  :)      and then I say,,  "next time I will be a little more organized..  "    maybe that will happen next time!  :)   jt
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: paul s on February 21, 2015, 12:56:28 PM
exactly how big is the gas stove for cooking, even the model and mfg would help me, great job
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: pocono_couple on February 26, 2015, 12:28:19 PM
hi paul.  headed there tonight.. i will check it out  and let you know.. of course, i should remember- it has not been all that long!   jt
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: pocono_couple on February 26, 2015, 12:35:56 PM
here is a link   http://www.homedepot.com/p/Amana-20-in-2-6-cu-ft-Gas-Range-in-White-AGG222VDW/100658987

bought it at home depot..  not necessarily an endorsement.. just happened to be where they were on sale when I happened to need it..     it is  20 inches wide..  you are not going to cook a thanksgiving meal for 20 with it, but  it sure meets our needs ( just the two of us)    my first purchase after installing the stove was  a set of small cookie sheets..  i have my priorities straight!   jt
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on February 26, 2015, 04:52:49 PM
paul s, (and anyone else looking for a gas range). I don't recall seeing where your range is to be used, that is, isit to be ON-grid or OFF-grid.  Be aware that gas ranges with electronic burner ignition also generally use a heat bar to ignite the oven flame AND to keep the burner lit. That heat bar consumes large amounts of power. The oven in all the ones I have looked into will not function without electrical power. If you are OFF-grid check out any range you consider. Sometimes that info is not easy to find. There are a few gas ranged with electronic burner ignitors that use a pilot flame for the oven. Not many though. OTOH, if the range top burners have pilot lights so will the oven.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: hpinson on February 26, 2015, 08:43:52 PM
Thanks for that Don.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: paul s on March 17, 2015, 03:31:10 PM
thanks don, i was starting to question that in my searching, thanks for the answer whith out me having to ask!!!!!!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: rick91351 on March 17, 2015, 05:30:23 PM
Our propane range works great without power minus the oven, of course.   Biggest problem we had was converting. Frigidaire they no longer comes with the propane jets included.  The seller was supposed to include them when they delivered it.  The propane installer was expecting them.  A phone call found them still at the store.  This cost us another service call.  However knowing what I know now I could have DIYed it other than setting the regulators.  They installed one on the tank and one going into the house do not understand that one.  All for just a range.     
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: MountainDon on March 17, 2015, 07:10:50 PM
They installed one on the tank and one going into the house do not understand that one.  All for just a range.      are two regulators.

The one at the tank is called a first stage regulator and will be red. That drops the tank pressure to 10 to30 PSI. Some are adjustable. The one at the house then lowers the pressure to 11" WC (water column). That one is probably green.  A range also has its own regulator somewhere hidden where the gas pipe connects.

They could have used an integral two stage regulator, black or grey or maybe blue.  Splitting the regulation can allow a smaller diameter pipe from the tank to the house as the higher pressure can push more gas through the smaller pipe. The use of two separate regulators often saves money even though there are two separate regulators.
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: destination on March 01, 2016, 08:49:50 AM
This has always been a dream of mine.  This is great info!
Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: troy on June 05, 2016, 12:51:09 PM
Coming in at 199 feet, everything a single person would need...

(http://i.imgur.com/L6fZG90.png)

Thinking something like this would be very quick and easy to build.  I'm thinking that an under-counter fridge (next to the stove) and an under-counter washer/dryer (next to the shower) would leave tons of counter space, which is one of my must-haves for food prep and preserving.

For HVAC, a mini-split should work nicely.  Not sure about hot water though... is there an all-season option for mounting a tankless heater on the outside of the building or perhaps something that can be installed under the sink?

For the bed, I'm thinking a super-single on a loft frame, with a sofa or desk under it.  A sleeping loft might be a possibility but I'm thinking that a usable loft would make the building too tall.







Title: Re: Buildings under 200 sf
Post by: glenn kangiser on June 08, 2016, 11:58:05 AM
You can get a small water heater to install under the sink and a heated shower head in Electric as an all season solution.  An outdoor mounted gas tankless would not be able to be used in all seasons if freezing is a problem.