First Visit from the PastorMan

[PastorMan]

Howdy Boys and Girls!

I've been a lurker for a long time as I have a great interest in the hammer swinging trade and a dream of ditching suburbia and building a cabin in the piney woods of Texas somewhere, perhaps on a lake.  The spousal unit is not really keen on the idea yet but, maybe in time, she'll come around....

A little intro is in order:  I'm a youth pastor and high school science teacher in the North Dallas area of Texas.  Our church has taken several trips to the Mexican desert to build three room cabins for families that move to the border area to work in the manufacturing plants.  I don't have the set of plans we use in front of me but I think the dimensions are something like 16 X 20 (maybe a little wider) or so, slab on grade foundation, with a gable roof and a loft area for sleeping the little ones.

We've done this for several years now, but this year we're focusing our efforts on one of our members whose home is in pretty significant disrepair.  We were going to try and remodel but it turns out that would be a losing battle..too much to fix.  Every time we open up one part of this old structure we find something else that needs attention.  The biggest hang up is the foundation.  Apparently it is based on something called Bodark.  It looks like telephone poles sunk into the ground to me with the house set on top and it's a big NO NO with the city.

All that said, we've elected to build from scratch.  The plan we'll be purchasing from John will be the 1 and 1/2 story cabin.  We'll be dividing the top floor into two bedrooms.  

Here's where I come in.  I'm the money man and the budget master.  We've collected around $20K in contributions.  I and a few others are going to start hitting up contacts for donations of materials, visitng the architectural salvage yards, and meandering through the "oops" sections of Home Depot and Lowes.  We'll be doing most of the work (minus rough and finish electrical and plumbing) in house with volunteer labor so that will help.

I have two questions:  

The first is for Phalynx and anyone who can direct me to his post.  I saw somewhere on this board that you estimated building a version of the 1 and 1/2 story cabin for $12K somewhere outside of Houston.  I have lost track of that  post but am really interested in how you came up with that.

I was thinking this plan wouldn't be able to be done below $40K.  That's not a calculated estimate, that's just an idea based on seeing that small habitat for humanity homes require a $60K investment.  I will be getting a more dependable number once I receive the plans and pick a foundation.  I was just interested in seeing how you (Phalynx) came to that number.

Speaking of foundations...

Here in North Dallas we are on expansive clay.  Nasty, nasty expansive clay.  I don't like it.  Shrinks in the dry times, swells in the wet times.  Lots of movement.  Almost every home in our neighborhood is built on a slab on grade foundation.  Almost every home in our neighborhood has had a foundation repair company bring their home back into level.

I grew up in South Texas where most of the small, wood frame homes were built sitting on those flattened pyramid type cinder blocks (sans pavers) with just a sheet of metal between the block and the floor to keep out those pesky termites.  There was no clay and there was no cold (Christmas day my senior year in High school was 85 degrees).

A slab on grade foundation is probably what we're going to have to do but that will take a big bite out of our budget.  I've seen a foundation used in some of the homes in the gallery that is made up of several holes filled with clean gravel then pavers and piers and even some nifty adjustable brackets.  

Is that a reasonable foundation design for the 1 and 1/2 story cabin?  Is it reasonable on expansive clay?  

Sorry for the long note.  I love the board and look forward to getting to know you folks.  If I goofed and put this in the wrong place, let me know.

Thanks,
PastorMan

[glenn kangiser]

This place is fine - after you get started you can start another topic in the owner builder section if you want.

Sounds like something like Jonesy's adjustable stumps may be a good idea for re-leveling once in a while.  In very expansive clay I had to put continuous footings all around  about 3 feet deep for on grade slab to prevent water from getting under the building and breaking the concrete as the clay swells.   there was never a problem with this building that I know of-- been there about 25 to 30 years now.  Seems a post and pier with adjustment and putting the base of them below the wet clay line if possible similar to the frost line-- may be a way to go  also - drainage away as soon as possible to keep the clay from taking on moisture and swelling.  

I worked on a house the other day with swelling clay moving the foundation and binding doors - the owner had added an addition and water was pooling under the porch next to the foundation- soaking in and swelling the clay.  Quick drainage could have helped prevent the problem.

[Okie_Bob]

See post under 'concrete pier foundation' on the board now for similar question. Glenn, as usual, has the memory of Jonsey's stumps posts from a year ago which I attempted to explain in the concrete pier topic.

Pastorman, welcome to the board and let me know if I can be of any assistance. I live in Bedford but, am building on Cedar Creek Lake. Just completed a 26 X46 garage with one end being an apartment to live in while we build our retirement home on the lake. I'm still up in the air on foundation and there is a topic on the home page of this board that John moved there that can help you some.

Okie Bob

[PastorMan]

OKie Bob and Glen,

Thanks so much.  I'll look up the post you mentioned.  Actually, while I think the pavers on gravel with a sufficiently deep hole and proper drainage would be functional, I'm not sure a licensed engineer would put his seal on it.  That's the real kicker.

You know Okie Bob, my wife has family in Bedford and you're the second person to tell me of the wonders of Cedar Creek Lake.  There's a kid in our youth ministry whose family has some property out there and he is itching to get out of the city as soon as he turns 18!  His heart is in the country, without a doubt.  

I will keep you all updated on the project as it gets started.

My daughter is crawling on me begging me to play dominoes so it's time to go.

Talk to y'all soon,
Pastorman

[glenn kangiser]

If you are using an engineer anyway then I don't see much problem-- he will design something he is sure will work (usually).  You can  tell him what type foundation you would like to use and he will design an appropriate method.  You can also suggest things you think will work and he can crunch the numbers to see.  Unfortunately, consultation and design cost money, and can vary greatly from one engineer to another.  Our local engineer charged $4000 for a straw bale house design that engineers in the valley wanted around $15000 for.

[PastorMan]

Actually, the only engineering required by this city (assuming the house plans are solid) is for a sealed foundation design.  Since slab on grade is pretty standard around here, if I hand the home plans over to the civil engineer I've used in the past, he'll hand me a foundation design in a bout a week for a few hundred dollars.  I'm just wondering if he would go ahead and just put his seal of approval on a less expensive foundation plan included in John's plans.

PM

[Amanda_931]

You can always ask.

[glenn-k]

Guess what -- Bodark is actually another name for Osage Orange.  One of the toughest woods around.  The Osage Indians were know for their fine hunting bows that were made from it.  Splitting a blank out of an Osage tree log can require about 8 wedges for a 6 foot log.  The fruit of the tree looks like a large apple sized bright florescent green brain.

I don't know about foundation qualities though.

[Josh Meier(Guest)]

slab foundations in North Texas will crack no matter what you do to them. Only 2 kinds of houses, those that need foundation repair and those that have had it.

The bois d'arc wasn't the problem most likely, it was the lack of footings. I had a house for five years in Garland. had a repair company with a very good reputation put 26 piers under the outside of the house before we closed on it. Within five years, it was back to the same problems it was having. At least with pier and beam you can level the thing without massive equipment, expense and time.