Cheapest and simpliest to build 1000 square foot empty box

Started by ionosphere, December 02, 2010, 01:10:33 AM

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altaoaks

i have to say i went back to the post on the build under 200 sq ft, and was amazed that in reading it again it was more enlightening than the first time.  there are some great small cabins in there and i have new-found respect for the little sweet spots!  ion, you may find the same new perspective i did there, and im pretty sure you read it before also.  when life gives you lemons, make lemonaid!

ionosphere

Thanks for the replies and links, they are very helpful.  I took a second look at pole buildings after reading here which I originally dismissed since I thought they were too expensive.  I still have my research to do before deciding which way to go.

Like some of others that have posted here, government is the biggest obstacle to my plans - frugal living. Here in the Hudson valley of NY, even in the rural counties, property taxes combined with property based education taxes exceed the cost of the pole buildings and cottage plans here.  So I am not surprised what I am reading here and know what I am up against.

My answer to that is researching counties with the lowest property taxes using the taxfoundation.org website.  Looking at few places to build so that frugal living and building in this manner would be somewhat possible.


h0rizon

Hey, I'm from the Hudson valley area too!  I'm near the Catskills.

Which county are you in, if you don't mind me asking?
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy

Erin

QuoteIm assuming you do not have a wife/kids since you have considered camping.

???
Why would this be the assumption?

DH and I camped, with our two elementary aged kids, for six months (June-Nov) in a 16', 30 year old camper and a corner of our pole shed.  With dirt foor.  And no running water...
The wise woman builds her own house... Proverbs 14:1

Squirl

Along with what Don posted.  Here are the 2010 building codes for the state of NY.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/ny/st/b200v10/index.htm

I have a small place on the western side of the Catskills.  Very cheap land over there and I haven't seen any reports on crazy inspectors.  Also property taxes can be less than $100 an acre. A few people on here have built around the areas along Route 88 between Binghamton and Albany.  Also, does it have to be 1000 square ft. at once?  Plans like the Big Enchilada kit can be expanded over time to reach 1000 square feet.

Response for your foundation question. My understanding is most areas of NY require at least 4ft to reach the frost line.  My estimates are that this would make a post and pier foundation with a wood floor, less expensive than a poured slab because of the amounts of rigid foam insulation required.  The assumption in my estimate is if you are doing the digging yourself.  If you are in the southern part of the Hudson Valley, near New York City, excavation costs may be higher.

Also, I agree with Horizon.  I am a little concerned that you mentioned possibly running out of cash.  Unless you are planning to relocate down south, it will be a bear to start building anytime soon.  Digging frozen earth and pouring concrete in below freezing temperatures can be difficult and expensive. If you are worried about running out of cash soon, it would seem a little difficult to afford the preliminary step of even buying land.


h0rizon

Squirl:

    Your feedback on the Catskills area is muchly appreciated!   ;)  I have not yet placed the necessary phone calls to the local inspectors; I planned on picking up a few construction books first so I can understand the codes better and know what questions to ask.  This bit of insight calms my nerves a little.

Ion:

    Regarding foundations in the area, I agree it's not the best time of the year to be doing work.  Early spring may also be difficult to work on with the thaw out, depending on the land.  When did you plan on starting ION?  I assume you weren't planning on tenting it in the winter.... Do you have any relatives locally that you could live with for a few months?

    Come late spring you should have no trouble putting in piers.  I'm considering a FPSF with a drystack block crawlspace (no slab) myself, but that is a bit more expensive upfront for the foundation and a little more complicated.  IMO, this type of foundation is the best of both worlds; you won't have to dig as far down to meet frost level requirements, the blocks will help keep the cold/rodents out, and it's still something that you can do yourself (less excavation).  I'm not positive that this foundation will pass local codes, though I think it should be acceptable.  You should consider looking into this, as said it should save aggravation later on as you try to deal with freezing pipes and cold floors.

    Of course, feel free to correct me if my research on the subject is off  :)
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy

ionosphere

h0rizon, I agree that I may have missed my opportunity up here because of the weather.

Squirl had mentioned the Route 88 corridor. I had looked at Sullivan county and saw dumpy houses on small lots with property taxes from 8k to 16k. :(  So I wrote off the ajoining Delaware and Ostego counties assuming they probably are not too far off from that combined that there is really not much of an economy there or within commuting distance. 

The remoteness does not bother me as long as the property taxes are incredibly low snce my last few IT jobs much of it was working from home.  Maybe it is worth a second look to be sure.

Squirl

Ionosphere,   Currently the tax rate averages around Otsego is 1% for school tax and .75% property tax on assessed value. So around 2.5K for a $150,000 assessed value. Most tax maps in NY can be found online. http://www.orps.state.ny.us/ref/asmtdata/index.htm It is very useful when checking on real estate listings.  There is lots of information there.  Also almost anything you wanted to know about real property in the state of NY.

Horizons, FPSF are outlined in the NY code guide under foundations.  http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/ny/st/b400v10/st_ny_st_b400v10_4_sec003_par020.htm
There seems to be a lot of hoops to jump through.  Also, there is a minimum the building has to be heated to.  I would rather just go deeper to frost level at this point.  We will see when it comes to that point.

StinkerBell

The cheapest way for me to do this would be to marry someone who all ready has the stuff needed to build.

simple.


ionosphere

#34
I pretty much made the decision to get out of NY long ago but I always take a second look because I have family here.  I still think property taxes are high even in Ostego county considering the salaries are much lower and there not much economically in that region.  

So ultimately I have been doing much of my property tax and land research in Florida. Tax wise about on-par with upstate NY but more opportunities.  The draw back will be hurricane proofing, codes and finding rural land where I could get away with building in this fashion.

I am thinking the cottage 20x30 and big enchalada are probably not hurricane code or could be made to code?   I suppose the pole buildings will also be a bit more expensive down there for that same reason.

shallyman

Quote from: Erin on December 08, 2010, 11:46:51 AM
QuoteIm assuming you do not have a wife/kids since you have considered camping.

???
Why would this be the assumption?

DH and I camped, with our two elementary aged kids, for six months (June-Nov) in a 16', 30 year old camper and a corner of our pole shed.  With dirt foor.  And no running water...

My assumption was based on the thought that most people are not willing to camp through a construction build, men and women alike.  To have a partner who is also on board with camping, especially with children, is not very likely imo because of the challenges involved.  Im sure it can also provided a lot great memories and experiences.

MushCreek

Why not save yourself the trouble, and move somewhere in between- the Carolinas, for instance. Most people who move from the north to FL eventually move half-way back once they tire of the heat, crowds, taxes, and homeowners insurance. Our insurance went up 400% in one year after several hurricanes came through. We are moving to upstate SC, where the taxes and insurance are tiny by comparison. And yes, we are originally from up north, and will soon be 'half-backs'  d* I don't know what kind of work you do, but the employment situation in Greenville SC is much better than it is in FL.
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.

ionosphere

Quote from: MushCreek on December 11, 2010, 07:48:30 AM
Why not save yourself the trouble, and move somewhere in between- the Carolinas, for instance. Most people who move from the north to FL eventually move half-way back once they tire of the heat, crowds, taxes, and homeowners insurance. Our insurance went up 400% in one year after several hurricanes came through. We are moving to upstate SC, where the taxes and insurance are tiny by comparison. And yes, we are originally from up north, and will soon be 'half-backs'  d* I don't know what kind of work you do, but the employment situation in Greenville SC is much better than it is in FL.

I have a variety of IT skills so various Florida metro areas besides NYC are the few places there is still work to be found on the east coast.  I spent allot time down there for work and love the heat.  I would be paying cash but it would make sense to buy homeowners insurance.  I need to find out what the added homeowner insurance rates on building something like this would be.  

As far as taxes I see the average below 2k in most rural places down there for small homes and probably less than 1k for something small like this.  This as opposed to a shack on a small lot in the Hudson valley in NY costing 8k to 12k in taxes.  I could go further upstate NY where the taxes are less but there are really no jobs up there across the board.  Taxes might be somewhat lower but still outrageous considering that. So I am pretty much forced out of doing this in NY because of property - education taxes.  This combined with the way things are with corporations and the economy the risk of not having consistent employment is too great to be able to pay such high taxes.

MushCreek

The insurance rates drop a lot when you get away from the coast. Although we are at 55', we are within 2 miles of the Gulf,  so we get whacked extra hard. Rural areas will have much cheaper taxes, too. Our taxes on our modest tract home in a subdivision would be about $4K except for that we are grandfathered in (they can only raise it so much a year). We'll likely pay less than $1K in SC. No income tax or personal property tax in FL, either. But after 30 years, we're done with it. Bear in mind that we live in the most densely populated county in the state (Pinellas) so our view is some-what skewed. We have thought about rural North FL to settle, but decided we wanted a bit more seasonal change.
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.