Advice for a 4 bedroom 30x24ft plan

Started by Ignavus, January 10, 2016, 07:34:52 AM

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Ignavus

Hi,
I'm looking at building a relatively small house. Its 9m x 7.2m, which is basically 30x24ft.

This is for a family of 5 to use as a full time house, not a summer cabin.

I've done what I think is a reasonable plan, but am looking for advice on things I may have missed, or ideas on better ways to use the space. In particular the bathroom on the ground floor is fairly tight, being combined with the laundry. Equally I think the upstairs bathroom could be smaller to make the bedroom next to it larger, but I like keeping the walls directly inline, so it is identical to the room below it.

Please excuse me for doing these in metric, I'm not in the US :)

Ground floor:


In case it's not obvious, the stairs are open below, so I'm using the space to put a lounge suite. This does leave a bit of a dead space underneath the first section of the stairs, that I haven't worked out the best way to use, since getting behind the couch would be awkward.

Upstairs:


I was also planning on doing scissor trusses for the upstairs to get a nice feeling of space/head room. Does anyone have any advice or reference designs on scissor trusses spanning 24ft? I'm hoping to use a 7ft exterior wall on the upstairs, and using the cathedral-style ceiling from the scissor trusses to make it feel more expansive.

Thanks,
Andre

Don_P

The trusses will ultimately be designed by the truss plant but a 24' span is no problem. Check the entry and then the windows on the second floor above it, clash? A front elevation will show how that works.

There is only ~3' of headroom under the stair where you have seating tucked, this is usually a closet or built in. Again an elevation will help work through that if you haven't yet

I like having a tub, preferably on the main floor... but I didn't do it on ours either.
Not enough closet in master. Myself, I'd change most of the pocket doors to swingers.


NathanS

If you expanded your entry to be flush with right side wall, you'd have space for your hot water heater, well pressure tank (if you need one), electrical panel.. and maybe even your washer/dryer.

Ignavus

I haven't spent much time thinking about the window positions, so the clash with the entry is quite likely.

Regarding the headroom, it 'looks acceptable' in the walkthrough, but perhaps I'm not estimating it properly. The corner seat would be a little tight, but I'd rather have that than lose the entire space to a storage room.


On pocket vs swing doors, I've deliberately gone with pocket doors so they don't cut into room space. Do you think this isn't such a problem? The downstairs hall could probably become a swing door without too much problem. Is there some disadvantage to pocket doors?

I also agree on the tub, but just couldn't work out how to fit it in. I'm trying to keep all of the water requirements over in the same corner to avoid long hot water line runs. The kitchen will probably have a small under-sink hot water heater, or possibly instant electric.

MountainDon

Regarding pocket doors...  Have you lived with them before?  Day to day, everyday use?  On paper they do seem to solve some swinging door clearance issues.  We had one in a previous home and found it inconvenient to use. Sliding doors take more time to go through when you consider the mechanics, the steps of moving through a sliding door. YMMV
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Don_P

That, no fun to use, and the weak section of wall it creates beside it are my complaints with pockets. I've screwed one open from the wall before  [frus]
Another thought, check your header dimensions on the second floor windows. You don't want to drop the windows too much or that gets annoying, let that tune the 7' wall height.

Ignavus

Any comments on the best height for the tops of windows? I hadn't thought about the header thickness, which obviously makes the default of 6'6" pretty difficult when the wall is only 7'. If I drop them to 6'3", I can still get a 6" header in, along with the 2" of framing (and a bit of wiggle room). Any ideas on how odd a 6'3" window top would feel?

I find it slightly hard to get a full grip on how it would be to live with these things without actually seeing them up close & personal.

MountainDon

1.   run horizontal tape lines on walls where you now live and use your imagination, OR

2.   build up an area* in front of an existing window to simulate the distance from floor to window top and imagine the ceiling lower.

     * plywood sheet on concrete blocks, bricks, whatever....

???
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Don_P

Pay attention to your posture as the window height changes. I'm saying I wouldn't make 7' a rigid height requirement.


UK4X4

I have a similar size house 26x36....upstairs has 6ft side walls and scissor trusses, but my windows are in sections where I have changed the roof line and so are higher.

we also planned on having bedrooms upstairs.....but when we saw the space ...we changed plans and put the main living area upstairs.....you have been warned !

down stairs bathroom.....extend the stair midway platform to be longer and put the washer /drier under the stairs winning 700mm more space in the bathroom..

Colorado 26x36 is a sticky thread

Metric here too, I had to go to the local museum to get an imperial tape measure for my build  8)


Ignavus

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've decided to forgo 7ft walls and just go with 8ft upstairs.

I dropped the pocket doors. I've only really lived with them once, and I must admit that we basically never closed them, because they are more awkward.

I swung the stairs around, which reduces the living area downstairs, but I think makes the smaller one upstairs slightly bigger. It also gives me enough space to put the laundry under the stairs, attached to the bathroom, and put a full bath downstairs. I'd also completely missed putting a hot-water cylinder in originally, but that now fits in the laundry.

My only grief now is I think the downstairs living area is a bit too small. However the upstairs is bigger than I'd originally thought. I'd imagined basically just a small hallway area for bookshelves, but I think it's a proper sit-down lounge now. That's probably an acceptable trade off.

Downstairs:


Upstairs:


Downstairs 3d:


Thanks for the advice. Feel free to add more if you spot anything.

Don_P

First quick look, I'd lose the window on the stair landing, too dangerous if someone falls. The one at the base of the stairs should probably be tempered for the same reason.

Off to continue pulling a 350, blew up the new chevy  d*

mahaoi52

Might want to look at the window sizes in the bedrooms also.  I don't think that a 750mm (30") window allows proper egress for both safety and code issues.

MountainDon

IF this was built in the USA, under the IRC windows probably are OK

IRC states:
R310.1.1 Minimum opening area.
All emergency escape and rescue openings shall have a minimum net clear opening of 5.7 square feet (0.530 m2).

R310.1.2 Minimum opening height.
The minimum net clear opening height shall be 24 inches (610 mm).

R310.1.3 Minimum opening width.
The minimum net clear opening width shall be 20 inches (508 mm).

IRC is HERE


But since this looks like IRL, the numbers may be different
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


trish2

Pay attention to the traffic pattern in the house.  If I am reading your plan correctly, you now have the traffic from upstairs to the kitchen directly walking between the downstairs sofas and the TV.  With 3 children up and down the stairs, this could become annoying to those trying to view their favorite program or DVD.  If you don't plan to put a TV on the main level, then this isn't a problem.

Ignavus

Thanks for the note about traffic patterns. I've again rejiggled things to have the stairs as a u shape, so that the entry to the stairs is next to the downstairs hallway. Still got some fiddling to do about headroom on the stairs though I think. Not sure I'm fully there yet.

Don_P

That is a good observation. Go back to the original stair layout... I think that is what you are proposing, I think the problem was headroom underneath, explore what a winder tread or two would do for that? The water heater could probably fit under the landing.