Budget Build - 1.5 Story - Florida - Planning Stages

[gtbzz85]

Hi everyone - love reading through the blogs as I plan for my first owner-builder project.  1.5 Story 20' x 30', on Slab, altered to be a few feet longer + 2 bedrooms upstairs --> http://www.countryplans.com/20w_loft.html

I would appreciate your feedback on our proposed build.  Looking at Pinellas, Hillsborough, or Manatee counties (greater Tampa area).  I plan to hire out foundation work, installing roof trusses or stick building roof, drywalling, final hookup of HVAC, and a few other items.  I plan for the house to be "All electric" but my splurge on a gas range if the budget allows.

Google Document with all Budget Info - updated in real time!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XlcPqUo7gMC7LCnemPtGMJ7Do6e_N8yd0dxgRlJh5VE/edit?usp=sharing

You as a viewer an Comment - so please, leave some comments!

-------------------------------------------

Paperwork & Legal:
- Land Survey ... $800
- County Permits ... $2,500
- Utility Hookup Permits ... $2,000
- Construction Insurance ... $1,000 (1 year?)
- Sealed and Stamped Home Plans ... $4,000 (I would love to just use the plans from Country Plans, but counties seem to require plans to be sealed and stamped.  From what I read engineers / architects will not stamp or seal someone else's plans.  So in essence I would just give them these plans and have them re-drafted, taking in to considering a couple of changes due to the home being built in Florida).
- Porta-Potty Rental ... $800 (1 year?)

Land Improvements:
- Leveling Lot (assuming already pretty level) & clearing small trees / brush ... $3,000
- Temp Electricity Pole ... $2,000 (procure pole and install myself, just pay utility to make final connection)
- Final Electrical Connection ... $1,500 (paid to utility company)
- Water Connection to City ... $5,000 (trenching to curb + pipe)
- Connect to City Sewer    ... $5,500 (trenching to curb + pipe)

Slab Foundation:      
- Digging & Forming Footings ... $3,500
- Drainage install around foundation ... $250
- Trenching for under-slab plumbing ... $500
- Concrete Footings & Labor ... $1,750
- Concrete Slab & Labor ... $4,000

Framing:
- ICF Exterior Wall Foam & Supplies ... $10,000 ($9,000 for materials + $1,000 for labor help (plan to install blocks myself, but may have to pay someone to check work before pour)
- ICF Concrete ... $4,500 ($3,000 concrete + $1,500 pump truck & labor)
- 2nd Floor Engineered Floor Beams ... $1,750   
- 2nd Floor Plywood Decking, Glue, Screws ... $600
- Roof Trusses & Installation ... $6,000 (stick built roof, or trusses?)
- Roof Plywood Sheathing & waterproof barrier ... $1,200
- 2 x 4 Interior Walls ... $600
- Stairs ... $1,500
- Insulating interior walls & 1st floor ceiling ... $1,200
- Insulating underside of roof ... $2,500 (spray foam)
- Drywall ... $5,500 (hired out - sound reasonable?)
- Interior Trim ... $2,000
- Porch Decking & Posts ... $2,000

Windows / Doors:   
- Windows & Flashing Materials ... $10,000 (Impact rated for Florida)
- Interior Doors ... $2,000
- (2) Exterior wood doors plus transom lights   ... $3,000
- (4) Upstairs closet doors ... $400
- Door Hardware ... $500
      
Exterior Finishes:      
- Door / Window Trim (PVC) ... $1,500
- Fiber Cement Lap Siding ... $6,500
- Metal Roof ... $3,000 (like the 26 gauge corrugated look (silver looking, not painted).  Rustic looking yet apparently very strong (due to all the curves in the product), inexpensive, and holds up better to hail than standing seam metal (won't show the dings as bad).
- Exterior Shutters ... $1,500 (built by me)

Rough-In's:
- Electrical ... $3,000 (do most of this myself)
- Plumbing ... $3,000 (do most of this myself)
- Run Coax for Cable TV / Internet ... $200 (do this myself)

Cabinets:
- 2 Bathroom Vanities, Sinks, & Faucets ... $1,500
- Laundry Cabinets ... $300 (built by me)
- Inset / Beaded Frame Kitchen Cabinets ... $3,000 (built by me)
- Kitchen Countertops & Backsplash ... $3,000 (soapstone countertop - http://www.soapstones.com/store/buy_soapstone_kitchen_to_go_kit.html ).

Appliances & Mechanicals   
- Electric Water Heater w/ Heat Pump ... $1,200
- Mini Split AC / Heat Pump + final hookup cost to a local HVAC tech ... $5,500 (one exterior compressor, 4 indoor units (living room, then 1 in each of the 3 bedrooms).  BIG QUESTION, I've only heard of one new construction home that had mini-splits installed, but wasn't sure about some code requirements for supply air being available in bathroom, or returns being in certain places.  Guess I'll need a dedicated ERV?)

Plumbing Fixtures:   
- Laundry Sink + Faucet ... $400
- Kitchen Sink + Faucet ... $500 ( http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S99822037/ )
- Tiled Shower Pan (Master) + Faucet   $500
- Free Standing Soaking Tub (Master) + Faucet ... $1,500 ( http://www.costco.com/.product.11765430.html )  Splurge for my wife!
- Tub & Faucet (Upstairs) + Faucet ... $600
- Toilets (2) ... $350
- Exterior Water Hose Bibs ... $100
- Garbage Disposal ... $120

Lighting & Fans:
- Exterior light fixtures by doors ... $250
- Interior Overhead ... $1,000
- Ceiling Fans (4) ... $600
- Bathroom Fans (2)   $100   $0
      
Flooring:
- Tile in Bathrooms ... $1,500
- Carpet + Wood Upstairs ... $1,500
- Tile for Kitchen Floor ... $500
- Tile Downstairs ... $1,500
- Carpet in Master    ... $500
- Flooring in Master ... $750

Interior Finishes:
- Paint & Supplies ... $1,000
- Bathroom Mirrors ... $250
- Window Coverings ... $1,500 (wife will make these)
- Wall & Ceiling Treatments ... $2,000 (some fake beams, bead board, etc.)
- Closet Shelving ... $750
      
Appliances
- Oven/Range & Hood ... $1,500
- Refrigerator ... $1,000
- Microwave ... $125
- Washer/Dryer ... $1,000
- Dishwasher ... $450

Whew!  Without any landscaping that is about $155k.  May add a garage at a later time using 2x6 (instead of ICF) with a low slope metal roof.  My goal for this home is an affordable, simple design, very low maintenance, Strong, and energy efficient home.  My wife and I are capable of doing many things ourselves, and thankfully Florida seems to allow us to that (subject to the code of course).

So... if you have any feedback on the estimates I would like to hear them.  If you've built with ICF's or built in Florida I would like to hear from you too!  If you have some favorite products or building methods that you'd like to share... I would like to hear from YOU too!  Thanks everyone.  Please help us turn our dream into a reality.

[MushCreek]

I'm from Pinellas County, and I'm building an ICF home, but in SC. So far, nothing in your pricing really jumps out at me, but you have to watch out for all of the little incidentals. Fasteners, in particular can really add up. What about joist hangers and hurricane clips?

Did you include re-bar in your ICF quote? I used almost 2 tons. You will need a good professional foam gun and cans of foam. Amazon seems to be the best source for these. What about window and door bucks, plus bracing? My ICF alone ran about $10K on a 1400 square foot, one story house. Don't forget ICF bracing- you either need to build your own, or rent some. I used rentals, which are fully adjustable to tweak the walls after pour. Highly recommended.

Why are you insulating interior walls?

Drywall estimate sounds about right. I paid $5K, but I don't know how prices run in FL.

Consider using steel studs for the interior. I got so frustrated trying to find straight lumber, and then keeping it straight. Buying at a local supplier, my steel studs were actually cheaper than going lumber. $600 sounds low for interior walls. My house is very open, and I spent more like $800. You do have to use special plastic grommets for wiring in steel stud walls.

That sounds really high for fiber cement siding. I'm assuming you're using pre-painted? Mine was only primed, and would have run about $2000 retail. As it was, I bought it at Lowe's as a discontinued item for $500! Labor is very high on fiber cement, so I assume it will be DIY.

Does your roofing price include the various trim pieces and screws? It all adds up.

Truss price sounds high. Mine were about $2300, but I don't know what installation would run. If I were building in coastal FL, I would price steel SIP's. Really strong and you can get very thick ones for insulation. I can give you a guy close to you that does steel sips. There is some steel internal framing- no trusses, and they are already waterproof.

Your appliances are low-end, which is fine. Search ebay and craigslist for things like sinks, faucets, hardware, range hood- anything that can be shipped at reasonable cost.

Find local, commercial sources for building products. Lumber will be slightly cheaper, sheet goods more so, and especially things like steel studs and re-bar. I only buy at big box stores for smaller purchases and convenience. Screws, nails, construction brackets, and bolts are all much, much cheaper on-line. I used 500 galvanized lag bolts for my window bucks, and paid $.27 a piece on line. At Home Cheapo? $1.47! That one purchase saved $600!

How are you set for tools? Unless you want to be working on the house for years, you will need decent power tools. I can give you a list if you're interested.

Last piece of advice- I would never live in Pinellas County again. The reason is hurricane threat. When the water comes up, there is no way out. During Elena in 1985, all of the roads in and out were under water- and that storm never directly hit. At least in Hillsborugh or Manatee, the escape routes remain open. Take it from an experienced old man- find a lot above flood levels. If you build in a low area or on the water, plan on leaving well before the storm hits. Insurance is expensive, too. We were paying $3K a year, despite being on high (55') ground. The reason is that we were within 2 miles of the Gulf.

If you want to PM me, I can go into detail on ICF construction. Our (not yet finished) house is amazingly quiet and energy efficient. If we keep the interior doors open, a single 12K mini keeps the whole house cool easily, and temperatures from room to room vary by less than 1 degree.

For energy efficient building advice, and info on ICF's and SIP's, join the forum at greenbuildingtalk.com and read, read, read.

[rick91351]

I guess I am lucky I have had two 2K plus sq ft houses drawn and stamped with hard copies and electronic media handed to me for basically what you're paying for one.  Suggestion shop around some more..... 

You are getting off cheap on the porta potty - over double that here if you want them to service it.  Rental for us was $103 a month and us return it when it needed serviced.  It was a towable as you can immagine. 

I like your thoughtfulness on the construction insurance!

The house we are building up here in the mountains with nothing close meaning subs have to come from long ways away  =  $$$.  However I saved a bunch with doing some shopping.   



 

   

[hpinson]

Excellent thread. Thank you.

[gtbzz85]

Hi Jay,

Good to know about Pinellas county evacuation difficulties plus high insurance costs.  I was really hoping the ICF construction would keep down on those costs, but I may just need to stay a little further away from the gulf.

$10k for a 1,400 sq ft 1 story for ICF might actually make my quote a little less, as the 1st floor would only be about 700 sq ft (say 20' x 35'), plus a 1/2 of the second story.  Bracing is certainly something I need to investigate more.  Do you have an estimate on rental pricing for those?

Insulating interior walls - great question.  Guess that's not necessary!  I was thinking that insulating the 1st floor ceiling could make that area quieter when someone was upstairs - but maybe that's just wasted $$ ?

Steel studs sound great.  I'll look at bumping up that pricing estimate from $600 to closer to $1,000.

Fiber Cement Siding - you're right, must have done my math wrong.  Pricing it out at Lowes, about $1/sq ft with 6" reveal.  Calculating at most about 1,500 sq ft of exterior siding.  So plus screws, jig to space it all out, and other miscellaneous items, let's call it $2,500 (DIY install).

Steel SIPS are something I just learned about the other day.  Please share any contact info that you have regarding sourcing those in the area.

Regarding appliances, I have some 'alerts' set on Slickdeals which keep turning up excellent deals on major appliances.  Pretty excited for when I get to pull the trigger on some of them.

"Find local, commercial sources for building products."  Excellent idea, but I'm not sure where to start looking!  Are these mostly 'mom and pop' stores, or stores that I've never heard of as they deal exclusively with contractors?

"A single 12K mini keeps the whole house cool easily" - So were you able to install a single Mini Split HVAC system in the home, and the inspectors didn't have any problem with that?  I think my idea of 4 interior units might be overkill, but I like the idea of each bedroom having control, plus a larger 12k-15k unit for the living room and kitchen.

"For energy efficient building advice, and info on ICF's and SIP's, join the forum at greenbuildingtalk.com" ... Will do!

[gtbzz85]

Rick,

Thank you for the feedback.

I'll certainly have to shop around for getting the plans drawn and stamped.  Having done CAD for a while I just can't image doing a full set of plans and charging any less (plus the price of the almighty 'stamp')!

I had seen that someone paid about $800 / year for their porta-potty on the forums and accepted it without further research, but I'll make a few phone calls and increase my estimate as needed.

" like your thoughtfulness on the construction insurance!" ... well I followed a gentlemen from Rusk, TX on this message board whose home went up in flames one night during construction.. and he had no insurance.  Yikes.

[MushCreek]

Yea, I realized that my pricing on ICF was off. Since I have a full ICF basement as well, I used a lot more block than you will. My basement is 7 block high (8', plus 12" floor framing), and my main floor is 7 block high, which gives me 9' 4" ceilings, which we love. As you probably know, ICF won't work out to even multiples of 4' on the outside, My place is 33' 4" X 43' 4", which is how the block worked out without cutting. I'll upgrade my build post to bump it back up. Look for '33 X 44 ICF home in South Carolina'. I could write 'ICF for Dummies' with the experience I acquired. I used Fox Blocks and found them to be a great product.

You haven't said how much experience you have in the various trades; I don't want to dumb it down too much if you know what you're doing. I can give you complete detailed information on any phase of building if you need/want it. There are a lot of little tricks for ICF to make it go better.

The steel SIP guy is Chris Kavala at Southern SIP's. He posts a lot in the SIP sub-forum at greenbuildingtalk, and his contact info is in his signature line. If you give him your dimensions, he can work up a SIP and framing package. I think he is in Palm Harbor.

For local building supplies, you'll just have to look. I'm sure there are places that specialize in concrete products, drywall, lumber, etc. I worked with a local contractor here in SC who did my excavation and concrete work, and advised me on ICF. He was invaluable for guiding me to various suppliers. I can give you on-line sources for fasteners, hardware, even mini-splits. The drywall suppliers usually carry steel studs.

As for my HVAC- I installed two Mitsubishi min-splits; a 9K for the master suite, and a 12K for the main house. We don't have a lot of rooms. I bought a $50 program- HVAC-Calc, and ran all of the numbers to figure out sizing. The whole house is only 12K in the winter for heat, and 9K for A/C. I used their most efficient units, which are only available for single head, wall-mounted configuration. I needed the extra low temperature performance and high SEER (26) that these units provide. The multi-head units won't do that as well. We run just the 12K during the day, and shut it off, and run the 9K at night. Last month's electric bill was $66 for a two person household, all electric, with a cheap resistance water heater. We were going to go heat pump water heater, but the reviews were awful, so I'm waiting until the prices come down and the quality improves. Our very average 3 BR home in Pinellas ran $300 a month in the summer.

Another cost I didn't see on your list was- light bulbs! We are all-LED, and they ain't cheap. We have 20 recessed cans, and at $30 a pop, the bulbs for those alone ran $600! We love LED's, and hate CFL's. If they last as long as they are claimed to, they are worth the cost, and they have a warm, natural light, and are fully dimmable.

[gtbzz85]

Hi Jay,

9'-4" ceiling sound great for downstairs - around 9' is my hope as well.  Also, having that basement must be very nice!

I'll certainly keep in mind about the length of the ICF pieces as the final exterior dimensions are finalized.  I'm trying to minimize material waste, so building the exterior box of the home to a multiple of the ICF size will sure help.  So glad to hear that you used Fox Blocks and found them to work well.  I've watched their videos online, looks very straight forward.  Renting that bracing looks to be a question mark still.  So, regarding Fox Blocks - did a sales rep come out and help you in any way, or did the 18 wheeler just show up and you were on your own from there (besides any direction given by your contractor).

"There are a lot of little tricks for ICF to make it go better."  I would eventually like to hear about the tricks you learned.

Thanks for info on the metal SIP's contact, I'll reach out to get some price estimates.

I'm in the same boat about the heat pump water heaters - reviews seem pretty horrible.  I like the Stiebel Eltron model, you can actually deactivate the 1,700 watt heating element, so you only use the 500 watt heat pump.  Excellent reviews, but pricey!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stiebel-Eltron-Accelera-300-80-Gal-Tall-Hybrid-Heat-Pump-Water-Heater-Accelera-300/203899071
Prices are definitely dropping though, especially thanks to utility rebates.  In Massachusetts at Lowe's a GE GeoSpring 50 gallon heat pump water heater is only $250 after $750 Utility mail in rebate.

Light bulbs... I see the light!  You're right, those LED's can break the bank if you're not careful, but the eventual payback, small amount of heat given off, and long anticipated lifespan are certainly positives.  I did factor in those into the "interior lighting" costs.  I'll try to stick with standard 6" can lights were possible (funny that 4" and 5" can be more expensive).  I installed some of the $10 LED A19 (standard bulb style) into 4" can lights in our small living room of our last home - really added great light and used I think 9 watts each..?  Amazing.

Finally - I'm going to put the budget details from my first post into a Google Document so everyone on the forum can see the numbers as they are updated, and maybe even leave comments directly on the document.  stay tuned!

[gtbzz85]

Google Document with all Budget Info - updated in real time!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XlcPqUo7gMC7LCnemPtGMJ7Do6e_N8yd0dxgRlJh5VE/edit?usp=sharing

You as a viewer an Comment - so please, leave some comments!

     

[MushCreek]

Fox Blocks (and many others) are 4' long; it is the corners that are different. You can cut them, but you have to be careful to keep the plastic fastening strips lined up vertically, or there'll be heck to pay. I made that mistake in a couple spots in the basement, so I'll have to mark the drywall sheets so I can fasten them. I used 8" in the basement, and 6" on the main floor, and oddly enough, they don't line up. I had to cut down the basement ones to make the exterior line up. It can get confusing working around openings. Builders just build the walls solid and then cut the opening, but I wanted to save block. I drew each wall and the individual blocks so I could pre-cut and not make any spacing mistakes.

My contractor only builds ICF. He arranged for the block to be delivered, and advised me all along the way. He rents his braces for $20 a week, which came to about $800 for a week. Although I had them a lot longer than a week, he only charged me for one week. I offered to pay him for his advice, but he never charged me. He did my excavation, footings, slabs, and filled the ICF forms. It has to be done carefully in stages, and has to be properly vibrated to eliminate air pockets. He did a great job getting the footings square and level, which is very important. After building 14 blocks high, my walls came out within about 1/4" of the projected dimensions and squareness.