Rick and Ellen's Homestead

Started by rick91351, March 20, 2013, 11:55:14 PM

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UK4X4

My old house in the UK has straight side cut flooring, when I bought the house I had to replace a lot of it due to wood worm , then sanded stained and oiled it.

The floor its self looked wonderful, but the gaps were anoying - we have ventilated crawl spaces and in the winter the wind would come up through the floors, as we had no sub floor things would fall through the gaps and disapear for ever

No one could walk on it with heels either as they would punch the would or break off the edges of the planks.

When I rented the house- we layed foam down and did a laminate floor on top of it - the rooms got a lot warmer, but the look was never the same, I loved my old floor !

It depends I suppose on usage and upkeep, some other floors i saw in the UK the people had caulked the gaps with flexible sealant, but I'm not sure how user friendly it ended out

rick91351

Quote from: Redoverfarm on November 18, 2013, 12:56:52 PM
Personally I would not go this route.  Chances are that there will develope gaps between them from just humidity changes itself.  It would be more likely to cup since there is no T&G to keep the face in alignment.  If I went this route I would make her sign a wavier that she is the one to keep the dirt out of the crack.  ;)

Quote from: Don_P on November 18, 2013, 01:30:06 PM
Ditto, I wouldn't, but I have. If it is intended to be fairly rustic I guess it's ok and that floor turned out fine and has never had a call back. Pine or fir are going to move less than a denser species. Is the wood quite dry now? Either way I would get it as dry as possible. If there is a shop with a molder anywhere within reason I'd take it in and have it T&G'd, screwing and plugging takes longer as well.

Rats just exactly what I would and did tell myself.  But where as it has been used up here in the past and worked well.  We went through a lot of weeks up here with 20% humidity-- on down to zero from a couple weeks just before the fire and after.  Lots of hot dry winds.  I really feel good about moisture content    I do have a Wagner moisture meter but it is on a storage unit down in the valley.  I have to go down and get a lot of my wood working tools out of it now that I am changing over from framer to wood worker....... ;D

After we had maple installed in our home in the valley and it was way way too moist I will not take that chance again.  We were POed big time and we hear you loud and clear about the moisture content and will not attempt this if we can not get it down to a sane level.......  or we will tongue and groove..... 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


Windpower


My nephew bought a house with pine floors -- just straight edge and no T&G

he is not happy with it --- impossible to clean the cracks in between the boards (he has 4 dogs and 2 kids under 4) --- some of the cracks are now 1/8 to 1/4 inch (I presume from drying and shrinking) he plans to rip it up and put hardwood T&G

We decided to go with bamboo T&G --- drawbacks: expensive ($4/foot with the pricey premium underlayment )) and slow to put down even with the air floor nailer (maybe because I am slow ...) I bought a palm nailer too from Lumber liquidators -- it works in tight spots but bends a lot of cleats

With all the time this is taking I never want to do it again -- I have at least another 2 -3 weeks at the current rate. We have a total of 2000 sq ft -- about 1/3 done

but it should be a hard well sealed floor when done and the upstairs BR that is done is very nice we have gotten lots of compliments -- it has a good warm feel on your feet

I think putting any floor down takes a lot of time --- at least we have all winter to work inside on our floors
Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

rick91351

Quote from: Windpower on November 19, 2013, 07:59:57 AM
My nephew bought a house with pine floors -- just straight edge and no T&G

he is not happy with it --- impossible to clean the cracks in between the boards (he has 4 dogs and 2 kids under 4) --- some of the cracks are now 1/8 to 1/4 inch (I presume from drying and shrinking) he plans to rip it up and put hardwood T&G

We decided to go with bamboo T&G --- drawbacks: expensive ($4/foot with the pricey premium underlayment )) and slow to put down even with the air floor nailer (maybe because I am slow ...) I bought a palm nailer too from Lumber liquidators -- it works in tight spots but bends a lot of cleats

With all the time this is taking I never want to do it again -- I have at least another 2 -3 weeks at the current rate. We have a total of 2000 sq ft -- about 1/3 done

but it should be a hard well sealed floor when done and the upstairs BR that is done is very nice we have gotten lots of compliments -- it has a good warm feel on your feet

I think putting any floor down takes a lot of time --- at least we have all winter to work inside on our floors

Hey some of the most beautiful hard wood floors we have ever seen were in a furniture factory showroom in China.  They said it was rattan then we got to quizzing them more and we are now sure it was bamboo.  It was / is located in the old section of the factory and had years and years of displays set and removed and stuff shoved and pushed out of the way.  Swept up and trampled upon.  The owner father said they put it down when he was the owner or a young man.         

We are still talking and negotiating about the best approach to our dilemma.  Ellen is now leaning more to T and G.  That is a lot quicker and easier to rack and nail when you are laying it.   

T and G does not in itself make a good job.  Like I wrote we had maple put down by a professional - a real craftsman - nothing but high marks or so we thought.  The flooring was way too green and not acclimated.  I said something about it.  He said he knew what he was doing and he tested it and it was with in range.  I had / have no complaints about his skill cutting it in around our rock fireplace and rock hearth nor the complex corners.  We loved it for a couple weeks.  Then it shrunk here and there then gaps all over.

Then we started looking at the real deal.  We found people he had worked for that had houses in the major market home shows and they were going to sue him.  But you cannot get blood out of a turnip so they said when they had found out more about him.  Basically they found out he was bankrupt and kept himself that way.  We hired another guy to come in and sand and refinish after a couple years.  I gave them a hand.  They went through two of those half gallon pails of hardwood flooring filler.  It looked good to great after they put on the Glitsa.  However you could still see the filler it did not sit well knowing how it could have looked.

Most likely I will T&G the flooring......or take it down the mountain and have someone run it.                     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

rick91351

WOW I am not counting my chickens before the spring time but our Snotel sight here at Prairie and the Boise Basin water year is looking very well.  It starts afresh on November 1.  The storms we have had are counting up and the snow is now melted here at Prairie but the rain continues.  Continues to a point of being sloppy! 

This morning the Snotel it published 2.6 inches of moisture so far this year at 4800 ft.  Think we only had 24 inches total last year.    Remember this is not down south where you all get an inch or two in an hour!  Up here water adds up very slow and it needs to absorb into the soil not just get carried off to the water shed.   

Trinity Mountain the highest peck around us has Snotel site at 7770 ft shows 24 inches of snow and 4.2 inches of moisture.       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


rick91351

The siders are now finished........



Except for two boards both sides of the porches.  We hunted and hunted and could not make the board stretchers work enough.   ???  Must be the cement boards.  That was Thursday night and they would have to come back up Monday.  As we do not have an outlet up here.   ;)  Fifty mile round trip...  [waiting]  I told them I would take care of it....  I ordered the boards Friday and will pick them up next trip to town. 



One of my favorite photos of the house -  though a little redneck but what the heck - stock trailer in the yard with Ellen's broke down carb float stuck @#$@# fourwheeler - I hate ethanol fuel and the door left open.



We / they went through all the sheet goods we could find.  Clear to the last of everything and went searching in the scrap pile to finish off wrapping both of the porches.   [cool]  I like it when is comes out that close.  No wasted $$$.  Now I still have to try and tackle the tapered porch posts.....  That will most likely be next spring. 



Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Don_P

Very nice, I like the inset porches  [cool]
We told one customer that we hated to use the board stretcher because they get so thin when we have to do that. After over 2 months of waiting for that last piece of cement fascia to come into the little local building supply I got to finish up a roof yesterday as the temps were dropping like a rock. I had ordered an extra stick because he has to wait until he has enough of an order to make it worth the distributor running a truck out here but my guys broke 2 and I didn't want to put a joint in such an obvious piece. Happily there was enough sunlight to dry the paint before I left, 16 this morning, I doubt paint would flow today! I did get to drive his boom truck on a couple of deliveries the other day and am finally getting the hang of downshifting those transmissions. I also delivered a table yesterday made from weathered boards from a bunkhouse in Lemhi, the center board was her "cowboy board" the ranch hands had written weather and snow comments and dated them through the 50's, pretty neat. She was telling me about her experience running a cattle operation right after she got married. They rounded up their herd and drove them to her new father in law's place. He came out and said "well, you've got one good one there" She looked out and said "Umm, thats a stray that fell in with ours". She went into alpacas to finish off their savings.

If you have heat and can move your flooring wood inside and sticker it before machining it'll help drive down that last few percent and make the dimensions tighter when they do machine.


rick91351

#133
Saturday the electrician and I had made plans to pull the wire to the house.  I made some calls to get some help.  So before anyone got here I took a hand full of those worthless plastic grocery bags doubled up a couple more and placed the hand full inside and tied twine to the handles of the doubled up bags.  I placed it sort of fluffy and pretty in the end of the conduit by the power distribution center.  I took the shop vacuum to the end of the conduit up by the house sealed it off and turned it on.



I think it made the 200 feet in one nano second.  I was so impressed I want to do it again but decided that was enough fun for one day. ;D



I made a stand for the 3 strands of 250 aluminum wire and the equipment ground to run over and give it some height and direction.



When everyone got there.  We tied the twine off to 'mule tape' and pulled it through.  The electrician and I drilled holes in the aluminum wire and looped several courses of tie wire and tied off the mule tape with several half hitches and then through the tie wire and took electrical tape taped it off good and solid.  Our friend with the excavator tied it off to the bucket on the excavator.  We lubed the cable up and taped it off and started pulling.  As the old saying goes like gas through funnel and eggs through a hen. 



The wire is pulled.

Today I got my HVAC inspection he drove off and the building inspector showed up for the framing inspection.  Our inspector had most all of it already done.  He needed to get the info from the electrical - plumbing and HVAC 'tags'.  He did check to make sure that no one got stupid and cut any trusses or joists while they were installing. 

We are now good to cover the inside.  I called the insulation contractor.   [cool]

 

Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


Windpower


I will remember that vacuum trick when I need to pull the underground lines to the barn and pole shed

sounds like you may be in and warm before long

good job !
Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

OlJarhead

As a telecom guy I love to see this :)  We use it so often that it's just 'common knowledge' but then seeing someone who's not in the business doing it is, well, just cool!  [cool]

That's how we pull cable -- but did you remember to pull another tape through with the wires?  We always do this so if we ever need another wire through the conduit we have tape ready to yard it through without having to worry :)

Great stuff on the build Rick, sounds like you'll be insulated soon and ready for the winter!

rick91351

Quote from: OlJarhead on November 27, 2013, 09:07:09 AM
As a telecom guy I love to see this :)  We use it so often that it's just 'common knowledge' but then seeing someone who's not in the business doing it is, well, just cool!  [cool]

That's how we pull cable -- but did you remember to pull another tape through with the wires?  We always do this so if we ever need another wire through the conduit we have tape ready to yard it through without having to worry :)

Great stuff on the build Rick, sounds like you'll be insulated soon and ready for the winter!

Would you be referring to what we referrer to as 'mule tape' tied and wired and taped to the cable bundle?



It comes in all widths and tensile strengths.  There are a couple guys up here that have a couple spools of it.  No, not sticky fingers but Idaho Power surplus auctions.  At one time; (I don't know if they still do it) when it got so old or like a tenth of a spool they surplussed it and went to a surplus warehouse.  A tenth of a spool of it lasts these ranchers, loggers, sort of contractor types a long long time.  Another great buy was braided nylon rope they use to pull wire when it got so many hours they sold it off in 100' - 200' and 300' lengths.  I need to keep my eyes open for more of those auctions.  Nothing like having lots of stuff.  ;)

You do bring up a good point however that is tricks of a trade.  So valuable, then couple that with and common knowledge - and a little common sense a person can do most anything they put their mind to do - both good and bad....  Another reason this forum and a hundred like it are so valuable.  Something learned via a chat, a read, or over heard or seen on a forum..... but retained is a real gem a nugget.

After all if you own the bulk of knowledge of the whole universe but do not share it - or worse yet retain it what good is it.  Often it is over looked - but as the old saying by Francis Bacon - knowledge is power.  Here in is the purpose of teaching and learning.  That is the ability of empowering others.     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

OlJarhead

Yup :)  Glad you pulled more through :)  Always a good thing :)

You'd be surprised by how many contractors forget to  d*

speedfunk



rick91351

As we were sitting drinking coffee Thanksgiving morning at first light we heard a vehicle drive up to the house.  By the time I got out there the insulation crew had their pick-up unloaded and were already caulking.  Four hours latter they were gone.  WOW is all I can say.  I heard about this insulation company from a contractor friend and told me they were the real deal.  They never cut corners and go way above the expected.  I found the owner to be all that and more.  Top that off he worked like crazy and then checked on his crew to make sure they were doing as they were to do.

They caulked even where Ellen and I had already caulked.  Foamed places I would never have thought of....







They even foamed in between 2X6s anywhere there was a chance of a air leak.  Cracks  were stuffed of fiber.... 



The owner is Hispanic and talks a hundred miles an hour.  He says they have so much work they are getting calls from all over the valley.  One end to the other and even toward Sun Valley and Ketchem in the mountains and down in the valley all over but we do the best job and I make sure we do the best job he explains.

Friday the electrician and I got power to the house. 





With all the big cable we had to use we had to use some stuff a little out of the box....  Or in the box you might say.... ;D



Roofers now have half the tin on in between snow showers and squalls.



I am not working on the house today so much as the fifthwheel.  I made some skirting out of 2X6s and OSB insulated now need to get the front end buttoned up....



Of course we are not going to keep the heat from escaping up and out but sure make the floor and walls more comfortable. 

   





 

     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Windpower


Looking good, Rick

As my carpenter said you can never spend too much on good insulation

As I sit here with the outside temp near zero the furnace is only turning on only once every half hour or less

we have 2X6 /R21 walls like you -- hope you can make it into the house to at least 'camp out' like we are -- hook up a toilet, sink and shower  ahhhhh the luxuries

at least if you have electricity and  heat you can continue to work on drywall etc

Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

rick91351

Sorry for a dumb question but I am into some stuff I know very little about.....  Got a question about insulation.  Ellen wants to put insulation in the walls of both bathrooms.  And trying my best to comply with and complete her good wishes.    And where as it is mostly for sound proofing and some insulating properties I suppose.  I would imagine it should be craft-faced batts.   ???   Would you turn the craft facing away from the interior of the baths lest it pick up moisture?  Or does it matter?  Or would you craft-face and plastic sheet the other where the moisture would be trapped and never to get out and cause great problems with mold and mildew should it ever pick up moisture......   Or does it matter which side the craft-face is stapled to?       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Windpower


My carpenters used un-faced R21 batts on outside walls

they put plastic vapor barrier on the inside bathroom walls under the drywall

while this makes sense to me I didn't ask why or verify code -- but it did pass inspection


Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

Don_P

I would put the vapor barrier, whether kraft or plastic on the warm and moist side, the bathroom face, and let it dry to the other side. The "vapor drive" moves from hot to cold.

Redoverfarm

Rick trying to get my brain functioning this morning so I will give it my best shot. As you said the interior walls would be mostly for soundproofing.  If the interior walls do not adjoin the outside walls then there is IMO very little gained by using faced insulatioin as the temperature on both sides will be basicly the same so no moisture would be gained from that thermal difference as the outside walls.  I assume you will be using green/blue or non-papered drywall in those rooms to prevent any mold from occuring.  In addition I would use mesh drywall tape rather than paper.  Mold will feed on papertape.  Exhaust fans? Mold inhibitive paint? 

Avoid plastic if you use craft faced.  One or the other.  Both you will be creating a space between the two for moisture to be trapped.

Well just my $.02 worth.


MountainDon

When the wall in question is between 2 conditioned rooms I would install the faced batts from whatever side was handy and then slash the paper facing all over with a knife. Then water vapor can dry to wherever it is driven, no traps.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

rick91351

Quote from: MountainDon on December 06, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
When the wall in question is between 2 conditioned rooms I would install the faced batts from whatever side was handy and then slash the paper facing all over with a knife. Then water vapor can dry to wherever it is driven, no traps.

Thanks guys - I remember reading about slashing the craft-face side now somewhere.   ???  I think in fact it was on here several years ago......  Also now that I think about some more.  I remember you can use unfaced and use these pre-cut spring wires to hold the unfaced batts...   I do know something was not adding up and feared causing a moisture trap......   Thanks guys [cool]


 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

RIjake

You have a beautiful piece of land and a very comfortable looking house.  I have to ask though, why no basement?

rick91351

Quote from: RIjake on December 07, 2013, 08:41:46 AM
You have a beautiful piece of land and a very comfortable looking house.  I have to ask though, why no basement?

Thanks part of this land goes back to my great great grand father, part goes to my grandfather and part my father and I added about 30 years ago.  It is about 640 acres - with 580 taxable.  It has two public roads through it plus a Forest Service Easement .  If it belonged to a developer it would be a dream come true.  I don't know of another piece of property this diverse this small.  One could have a sustainable life style here but it would be a hard life - but do able.

I would like to put together a social media photo album of this place and the surrounding area some time.  The one room school house my great grand mother had built up here is still in use today.  Though it has been moved over to the village from the ranch.  Prairie even has a library which my wife Ellen is the librarian.  Though it looks like a small camper.  Over in the village six or seven miles from us we have a church and small store.  A store and restaurant is 2.5 miles from us.  You can be a social gadabout or more solitary no problem.   

Back to the house it does not have a basement for a couple reasons one is cost.  Concrete is not cheap up here at all.  With truck time and out of zone charges and diesel surcharges plus the cost per yard added in.  Two believe it or not we had a heck of time landing a septic tank here.  Every hole we dug for a perk test failed by us.  It looked like the attack of the huge gophers up here.  We did not even have to call the inspector.  Seems we have a lot of surface water here in the area sealed by the clay top soil.  So what looks dry on top it is not.  So we came up with three perk test holes.  Marty the inspector from the State of Idaho failed them.

So I asked Marty where to try next.  He told me I cannot tell you that.  I looked at him and grinned and said "Marty you have told me everywhere I can not have a tank you tell me where I can."  He know I was not going to go off on him if he was wrong.  The guy was ready to retire.  He knows more about dirt and test holes from his 30 plus years of looking at them.  So we went walking and he stopped and look around and said dig here.  So dig we did and did not want to press our luck.  I felt there is very little chance of getting a 'basement tank' in. 

Then third and most important.  Every house we ever had - had a basement.  Ellen gave me a couple orders when we started designing this.  First on the list was no stairs.  So it is all on one floor.  It is sort of engineered or designed to look a lot smaller than it really is.  From the perspective of the road it looks to be 1600 to 1800 or less.  That was designed in to it.  We were trying for a sort of a Craftsman style 1920 or 1930 bungalow cabin in the mountains.  It was drawn by architect off my drawings from something we found on our snow birding trip last year.  It was engineered by Bob Peters just a great guy.  I feel or agree it is to large the true spirit of this forum.  But I have hung out here for a few years because when we started this venture I was looking to do something a lot smaller. 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

rick91351

We made a grave mistake when we built the skirting for the fifth wheel I used a hole saw and thought I had the drain measured out just right.   [cool]

Yesterday I went out to dump the sewer and grrrr!  I leave the galley and gray water tank valves open.  Sewer I manually dump.  The drain was froze up solid I touched it and the flex hose disintegrated.  I looked it over and the hole I cut I must have measured it and figured top not bottom because it was lower than the drain.

So I spent the last two days fixin' but using that old mountain ingenuity and used what was available here and there rather doing the 100 mile RT.  Robbed the old flex hose off the little fifthwheel, went to the garden shed where we keep the spare plumbing pieces parts.  Found a little this and that.  Opened the valve to the sewer and it was frozen with ice from the backed up gray water.  Turned the little halogen lamp on it for a while.  Opened the valve and the tank emptied.  YAA!   [cool]

This morning Ellen was doing dishes went to empty the sink.  It did not go anywhere :(

So back under I went and found that the frozen drain had also backed up the galley drain.....  DAHHH!   [frus]  But the tank did not feel froze.  I really do not need a tank froze solid.  So I found some more heat tape back under I went.  Way way to long.  GRRR!  So I hung the excess out into the air and some tape should be safe.

                 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.