30x40 Earth Berm Passive Solar in Maine

Started by Bishopknight, October 13, 2008, 09:33:23 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bishopknight

#50
Soomb,

Here is the exact link to Tony's blog that MountainDon is talking about:

http://n74tg.blogspot.com/2007/12/surface-bonding-cement-final-thoughts.html

Here is another angle of the current progress


PA-Builder

Your walls are looking good!  Are those blocks specifically designed for surface bonding ?  It look like you are using 10" blocks ... are you aware that there are L corner blocks available so that you keep the proper 8"/16" spacing after turning corners??? Might make the project a little easier.


Bishopknight

#52
Thanks PA,

They're 12" block. Its hard to tell in the pics. Personally, I would never touch 10", I heard they're hell to work with. I planned the backcourse for ease by alternating the corner blocks 90 degrees. I'll have a small opening for the root cellar in the back but I'll use bond beam block and rebar to provide overhead support for that doorway.

My dad said I should not begin framing until spring, because of snow/rain rotting the untreated framing. I'm more of an optimist. I say lets go for it! I don't think it will bother it that much for only 3 months being outside. Others thoughts?

Soon there may be pictures of a snow shoveled slab with framing going up. I don't know why but I'm kind of looking forward to accepting the challenge of working through whatever winter throws at me. I just want this thing built!

Mike 870

Are you worried about your slab frost heaving if you don't frame?  Since you're not going to get to grade before winter, you're going to have more water passing under there than normal.  Spending a lot of time in Maine, I know the ground is just filled with rocks (boulders) also.  I guess even if you do frame that could still be an issue until you start heating the place.

glenn kangiser

In general framing that is not on the ground is OK as long as it can drain and dry off with the exception of OSB and engineered wood products which swell and deteriorate. 

Rot starts from fungus sending tendrils out into the soil and drawing water to the inside for it to work the wood over with.  If you look at fences and old untreated houses you will see that if off the ground they can last for years.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


John Raabe

Here in the wet Pacific NW buildings are framed up at any time of the year. Sure there is some wetting but if you can get the roof up and out of the weather in a few months (or weeks!) it won't be long enough to the critters to get a foothold.

Framing lumber is usually not a concern but check with your lumber supplier to see what the best subflooring material would be for your exposure conditions. There are subfloor products that are designed for wet exposure installations (and others that are not!)
None of us are as smart as all of us.

Bishopknight

Hey Mike,

Not particularly worried about frost heaving. The slab is insulated and I've placed 2 ft of hay around the perimeter. I'm going to put even more hay down this weekend just in case. I also have a pretty good sized sandpad under the slab, which should help as well.

Thanks John,

I checked with my lumber distributor and they recommended either 3/4 CDX ( not a T&G ) , 3/4 PT plywood or a 3/4 plywood called Advantech which is T&G. The advantech is $10 cheaper than the first 2 ( its $23.97 per sheet). I could also help protect it with some mismatched paint at home depot and then tarp it if I only get up to the 1st floor ceiling/2nd subfloor done.

Glenn,

You bring up a good point, with the PT sills down and sealed, water may not be able to run off easily but Its not going to stop me. I'm thinking for the interior wall sill plates, I'll just use untreated wood, even with the threat of standing water. I've heard its good to limit the use of PT wood inside a house as much as possible. I'm also going with regular plywood for the sheathing, not Oriented Strand Board like on the 12x16 cabin.

If I have any of this wrong, please let me know. Thanks for all the advice.

MountainDon

A few of our member builders have used Advantech and they all have reported nothing but positive related stories. I would have used it if it had been available to me. I would not want to use sheeting that was not T&G.

manufacturer's website...

http://www.huberwood.com/main.aspx?pagename=advantechflooring
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

PA-Builder

I used 3/4" T&G Advantech for both floor levels in my cabin.

I also used 1/2" square edge Advantech for exterior sheathing (covered with steel corrugated siding) and roof sheathing (covered with fiberglass shingles).

You don't want my opinion on Advantech because I sound like a Huber Corp. salesman.  Honestly, I believe Advantech is one of the BEST sheathing/OSB products on the market.  My floors were exposed to rain for approximately 3 months with absolutely no adverse effects.  My sidewalls were exposed from October to April with partial Tyvec (some blew off) covering...also with no adverse effects.



Redoverfarm

Bishopknight I used Advantex on my cabin which was open for approximately 8 months. Snow stayed on it for about 3 months of that time.  Can't say anything bad about that product.  There is another product which has come about which is also waterproof subfloor, 3/4" TG with a smoother surface which alot of builders are starting to use.  It is called Shurfloor.  It is available in this area but maybe not in the west.

If you go with either it is not necessary to paint or cover and I am not sure what that would do to the warranty. 

Here is a discussion of Advantex vs. OSB by another member

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=5425.msg69077#msg69077 

Bishopknight

Some new pics from Saturday and Sunday. 17 - 25 degrees all weekend, below zero with windchill.

We finished leveling, shimming & dry stacking the berm wall saturday.  I used a ripsaw with a 7.25" diamond blade wheel to cut the concrete block. It did a great job.
For the root cellar opening, I used 3 course of bond beam block with rebar and concrete inside it. I also applied a half bag of SBC structural skin to one corner.







Sunday we measured and ran the chalk lines for the south facing wall and sides. Then anchored the PT sill to the slab via the anchor bolts and cut off the tips with a 4" metal grinder blade. We decided to frame the whole front as one single side. I'll use my chains and the backhoe to lift up the wall. It probably already weighs about 800 lbs.

Camera died around 2pm. We got the whole front framed by sundown. Later in the week I'll sheath it and start on the next walls. I still have to skin the block wall and rebar and cement the top bond beam block course. I'm going to have a yard of concrete delivered for that.











glenn kangiser

BK, you're an animal to work out in that weather.... My hat's off to you ....and my Tuque is on... :)

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Bishopknight

#62
Thanks Glenn,

Runar, the guy helping me is the animal. Don't get me wrong, I'm going full tilt, pushing myself. This experience is toughening me for sure. My friend Eric got him to help me because he said hes the strongest and toughest guy he knows in construction. I liken Runar to a workout coach, very demanding. I'm paying him but he's bossing me around, lol! I'm learning alot though.  Its good also because we're getting things done at a breakneck pace.

On another note:

I've been going over some structural spans for the 2nd floor and they worry me. Runar suggested a single 40' beam running down the center, allowing all overhead joists to span around 15'. I would have to buy one strong beam and support it roughly every 8 - 12' with a column. Being a DIY'er, I didn't plan ahead and properly support the areas where those potential support columns would be. The concrete is only 2'5" - 3" in some areas ( with mesh ) and 25 psi foam underneath it ( which might compress ). I am thinking about erring on the side of caution and going back to my 1 story plans.

Not only that but just looking at other peoples plans (i.e. seeing how long it takes). I'd like to finish this house next year with the option of moving into it if the economy continues to worsen.

Also going back to my 1 story plan would significantly lessen my building costs. The windows alone are very expensive ( anderson 400's ) but I feel thats one area you shouldn't skimp on. Lastly, I could get the trusses for < $3000 and get it shelled by January possibly.

I have some thinking to do. I'm going to sleep on it.

glenn kangiser

You can cut the floor and add the footings if you really want them - Diamond Blade in a Skilsaw to score about and inch then break it out and do it but the single story would get you going sooner.

The trusses will be engineered to support as you need them.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


glenn kangiser

No problem.  It is common on commercial buildings to have the column separate from the slab footing.  Usually done before but the end result is the same.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Bishopknight

#65
I'm still going back and forth on 1 and 2 story. I played around with 3d studio architect today and came up with a nice layout for the 1 story.

Notice the usage of scissor trusses to give me a cathedral feel inside. Scissor trusses don't need any support column bracing either. Wide open floor plan in otherwords.




glenn kangiser

I made a note in the other thread about using part attic trusses an and steepening the slope.  Just thinking outloud.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

apaknad

bk, also look into a storage truss. cheaper than an attic truss and does almost the same thing. used them in my two story garage and saved about $75 per.
unless we recognize who's really in charge, things aren't going to get better.

Redoverfarm

BK as any builder will tell you that you get more bang for your buck on a two story.  double your sf w/o that additional foundation and the roof you have to do anyway.  Without getting into the money pit aspects you could always build the 2nd story and then finish the gound floor to live in and give yourself job security on the 2nd floor for a later date.

ListerD

Awesome job! Inspiring for sure.

Quick question: Are you infilling the block with something (either for thermal mass or insulation)? We're planning on Dry stack with SBC as well and will most likely be infilling the block with sand.

Also I don't see any rebar to tie the block wall to the slab. Is it just not pictured or are you relying solely on the bottom mortar line to tie the wall to the slab? Seems like there'd be a fair amount of pressure on that wall once you back fill.
"We shape our dwellings, and afterwards our dwellings shape us" -- Winston Churchill


glenn kangiser

He is using fiberglass reinforced parging on both sides of the 12" wide block as I recall.  I'd want a thick layer of well reinforced parging to extend below the top the edge of the slab I think.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Bishopknight

#71
Hi Lister,

I'm using a cemented keyway to lock the first mortared course to the slab. Its easier  than rebar and doesnt require filling the courses with cement.

I'm currently not infilling the block wall with sand. The sand I was going to use is frozen now and I'm happy with the amount of thermal mass I already have with the blocks.

Thanksgiving Update:

This morning I sheathed the framed front wall on the ground. I made sure to cover the top plates with the shealthing and also leave an inch for the bottom sill plate as well.



Then I rigged up the backhoe to hoist it up when Runar gets here tommorrow.





Lastly I spent about 2 hrs applying 1 bag of SBC to the west wall corner and back. It is not as easy as I thought it was going to be! Mixing it is 3x as hard as concrete and getting the perfect consistency where it doesnt run down the wall yet still glide easily is an artform. Its definitely a wrist workout. You also lose some off your trowel so I now use a board underneath to catch the drops and put them back in the tray.  At $17 a bag, you want to save any drips.



Redoverfarm

BK I have never done what you are doing but I have done a lot of parging and it seems to be the equivalent in the process.  I have found that if you use a float trial 12-14" X 6" and start at the bottom at a 45 deg angle laying the mortar until it feathers out.  Then reload and make a second pass adjacent to the first.  Then re-load again and take the first a little higher then the other section alternating as you progress to the top.  That blends the section together rather than going all the way up at one time.  Seems to bond to each other better and the edges do not dry.  Occassionaly I will start at the bottom of each run loaded but not at the same angle to lay a skim over and smooth out what you previously done.  It is easier if you have a regular trowel to load it onto the float off of a square piece of ply.  I use a metal 55 gal lid.

With mortar in warmer weather you have to dampen the block or the block will suction the water out of the mortar leaving a real rough texture which does not bond well.  But from the looks of you rain soaked wall and the drop in temps you shouldn't have that problem. 

What is the recommended thickness of the application?

glenn kangiser

I use a hawk, BK working similar to what John mentioned.  I load it pretty full and even use it to start at the bottom tipping it toward the wall as I go up- using it as an applicator or applying with a swimming pool trowel- pushing an appropriate amount off of the hawk as needed.  I like it as it is flexible and has rounded ends to not leave marks as bad.  I run the hawk under the trowel as I work, fairly tight against the wall to catch spills.

I found that one of the big mud mixers maybe about 8 inches round or rectangular (like for powdered gypsum drywall mud) in a 1/2 inch heavy duty drill mixes better in a tub than it does using a cement mixer and having all of the mess to clean all of the time.  Much faster and mixes the fibers better too.  I use a Makita 1/2 to power it.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Bishopknight

#74
I'll try that tommorrow Glenn and John. Thanks.

We got the main wall raised today. The backhoe did a great job lifting it.  I decided to go one story. Reason being, I would rather build a 2 story on waterfront property, then rent this house out for income in the future if I have kids someday. This whole house will cost between $12,500 - $15,000 to frame/shell it and get it out of the elements.  Thats includes my costs of hiring Runar and the pour crew. 

It snowed 2" today, which means everything slowed down considerably. The ice on the slab became slippery with the snow flake on top. I fell once from tripping over an anchor bolt and almost a few times on the ice. Runar hit his thumb a few times with the hammer so I heard the usual swears ;D

I decided to just sheath the east/west walls for now since I've going to buy Anderson 400 used/like new condition windows on craigslist for a quarter of the price retail. Until I know the rough openings, its better to hold off. I already got 3 on craigslist last week for the front that saved me 50% off home depots price. They are 6'x3' casement Anderson 400s. High SHGC too. (Solar Heat Gain Coefficient )

I'm going to order trusses this monday from a truss manufacturer in Saco, Me called WSI Truss. Hopefully they can get them built and delivered next saturday. I'm considering 6/12 pitch scissor trusses. The nice thing is, they will fit right through the front door upside down and are only 109 lbs each. I'll probably get Runar and his friend Sean to do them, and I'll stand in the middle with a 2x4 to flip the trusses up vertical.

But first I need do a few more things this weekend. Fill the bond beam block course with rebar, anchor bolts and crete tommorrow. Then parge more SBC on the block wall. Thats alot of hard labor for the next 2 days. If I can atleast get the bond course done, I'll be satisfied.

When I'm done with this, I'm going to make a collage of the house construction to hang in the bathroom ;D