Exterior siding question - metal, wood, or cement?

Started by old_guy, April 18, 2017, 01:51:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

old_guy

We are hoping to start the barn this summer in NE Tennessee.  Currently planning 28x48 with shed wings down both long sides, one shed enclosed for living area.  Slowly working out the plans, with important input from this forum.  Roof (gambrel) will be metal (green).  Had planned metal (barn red) for the siding, but want to compare it with other options.  Roof and walls will be sheathed.  Planning 12' wall height on main barn, 8 or 9 feet on enclosed shed.

We want it to look like a barn.  Original siding plans are for metal, with vertical seams.  I know nothing useful about trimming corners, or around windows and doors, with metal.  We sided my brother's cabin in Michigan a few years ago with rough sawn boards and battens sourced at a local mill.  One of our group was a builder who said he had experience with board and batten, so we sided with that and let him run the show.  I have no idea if it is done properly, but it looks good.  I expect that cement siding is available to use the same way, and could be installed similarly to wood.  Again, no personal experience with this product.

This build will be mostly DIY.  I will have competent help for much of it, but will do a lot by myself.  I am hoping to get feedback on the difficulty of installing the different siding products, clues about what to do and what NOT to do, and maybe about living with each of them.  I am hoping to avoid much maintenance later on, as age is creeping (rushing) up on me.

Thanks again for your help.

NathanS

I think two big things with getting wood siding to last is 1) stain all sides, including cuts, and 2) allowing the wood to dry in both directions (not resting flush against the sheathing - mainly if there is insulation behind it). Also gutters or preventing water from splashing on the ground and getting onto it.

I am trying to figure out the stain thing myself. All of the people at saw mills I've talked to say the new stains that are low VOC do not last nearly as long as they used to. I have had a few guys say Sikkens is the best and you could get 8 years out of a semi transparent from them. One guy told me Vermont and one other state, can't remember which, still sell the old type of stain and he would drive there to get the good stuff!

I do think board and batten lets more rain behind it than lap siding, but as long as you do a good job flashing and putting up your house wrap it's not a problem.


MountainDon

I like lap siding. We have cement fiber lap siding on our cabin; fiber cement type because it is fire resistant and the cabin is in a wildfire danger zone.  What we call a barn, a large shed, is mostly vertical metal panels the same color as the cabin roof. That was because I had some and wanted a place to use it. The local supplier (pro roofing supplier not a big box) had all the corners, edges, etc needed to finish it off. They were helpful.


Paint adheres very well to the Hardi product. I believe the certainteed version can be stained. To me natural wood is last in line because it may require more maintenance with potential for paint peeling from moisture issues.


Our home is part stucco and part lap siding. I did a rain screen wall with that lap siding. That could also be used with wood lap siding to promote moisture drying out behind the siding. I did it because I also skinned the exterior in reflective faced foil. With the air space channels provided by the rain screen system that gets an effective R-value gain over a wall that is constructed solid.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

akwoodchuck

metal's probably about the cheapest, fastest, least maintenance one...that said, a mix of all three....metal up to about waist high, cement lap above, and cedar shingles in the gables would sure look sharp!
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."

Redoverfarm

In the last couple years they have developed some pretty impressive vinyls that mimics the look of real wood lap siding. Not sure of the manufacturer or the availability in your area but it may be a consideration to give you low maintenance, ease of installation and apprarence of real wood siding.


zion-diy

We went with rough cut 1x8 that we stained on all sides and used as lap siding. Put it on in 2006, still looks good today. :)

Just a 50-ish chic an a gimp,building thier own house,no plans,just--work,work,work,what a pair :}

bayview

Fiber-Cement (Hardie Plank) We've installed on 3 buildings.  Low maintenance.
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

DaveOrr

Quote from: bayview on April 18, 2017, 09:59:22 PM
Fiber-Cement (Hardie Plank) We've installed on 3 buildings.  Low maintenance.

That's what I'm installing on my cabin this summer.
Stuff sure isn't light when you have to move it all out to the site by hand and snowmobile though.
Just finished moving 14,000#'s to the site.



Dave's Arctic Cabin: www.anglersparadise.ca

hpinson

Metal siding is really affordable and lasts well in itself, but the screws you use to hold it on place use a little EPDM rubber-like washer that degrades and eventually leaks.  You have to changes those out every 10 years or so.  Every time you change them you need to use a slightly larger goof screw.


cbc58

if you're going to use cement siding, make sure to have a few extra saw blades on hand.  I did a small shed with cement siding and it ate blades.  protective eye wear and face mask for dust also recommended.

MountainDon

Shears are nice IF you are doing a lot, as they are expensive. But no dust flying through the air.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

old_guy

Great information, everyone.  Thanks.  I will probably be dropping the wood from my list.  I knew that maintenance was probably going to be a problem, but was pretending it would be ok as I am familiar with installing it.  Now down to fiber-cement and metal.  Everyone seems quite happy with their fiber-cement installs, and I really appreciate that feedback.  I am hesitant, though, about horizontal siding - as it just doesn't seem 'barn' to me.  That feeling may change.  I see that the fiber-cement panels are available in lengths up to 10', either plain or grooved.  Total wall height is planned to be 12', but there will be some roof all around, and it could be massaged to have siding height stay below 10' under the roofs to avoid visible seams.  Might be a splice high in the gable ends, which would be ok.

I am still leaning a little toward metal. I don't really like the T1-11 look of the cement panels, and the narrowest trim boards I found are too wide to add for a batten look.  AKWoodchuck has me thinking about having the bottom 3 or 4 feet being something different (wood, firer-cement, stone, etc), then metal above.  Could do that on the porch just to avoid dents in the metal from chairs, firewood, kids, etc.  I would need to learn about flashing the joint.  The washer life after metal installation is an issue.  They last longer if not over-tightened, but eventually will leak.  I will need to hire someone eventually to do that on the roof, and would probably have them just continue down the walls.

David, whenever I read your posts I feel like a wimp.  Now it is 14,000 pounds of siding.  In addition to the effort to get it onto your island and up to he cabin, you now need to lift each piece up onto the deck, then lift each piece again (probably twice) to install it.  I recall reading here that someone used j-hooks fastened to the wall to hold the siding in place to fasten it, especially useful when working alone.  I think the hooks were made just for that purpose.

I'm gonna' mull on all of this for a while, to process this additional information.  Thank you for the feedback.

ChugiakTinkerer

My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

DaveOrr

Quote from: cbc58 on April 20, 2017, 07:30:23 AM
if you're going to use cement siding, make sure to have a few extra saw blades on hand.  I did a small shed with cement siding and it ate blades.  protective eye wear and face mask for dust also recommended.

Yes, protective equipment is a must as the silica in the siding is very unhealthy.
I bought a set of Malco Turbo Shears for doing most of my cuts with a saw only for cuts the shears can't do.
The shears attach to a drill or impact driver and cut through siding like butter without kicking up dust.

http://malcoproducts.com/product/roofing-siding-gutter/fiber-cement-backerboard/power-assisted-cutters-shears/turboshear-fiber-cement-siding
Dave's Arctic Cabin: www.anglersparadise.ca


DaveOrr

Quote from: MountainDon on April 20, 2017, 08:53:31 AM
Shears are nice IF you are doing a lot, as they are expensive. But no dust flying through the air.

I bought the Malco Turbo Shears that attach to a drill or impact driver.
They weren't too bad price wise and cut like butter.
:)

http://malcoproducts.com/product/roofing-siding-gutter/fiber-cement-backerboard/power-assisted-cutters-shears/turboshear-fiber-cement-siding
Dave's Arctic Cabin: www.anglersparadise.ca

DaveOrr

Quote from: old_guy on April 20, 2017, 02:54:15 PM
David, whenever I read your posts I feel like a wimp.  Now it is 14,000 pounds of siding.  In addition to the effort to get it onto your island and up to he cabin, you now need to lift each piece up onto the deck, then lift each piece again (probably twice) to install it.  I recall reading here that someone used j-hooks fastened to the wall to hold the siding in place to fasten it, especially useful when working alone.  I think the hooks were made just for that purpose.

I'm gonna' mull on all of this for a while, to process this additional information.  Thank you for the feedback.

There's a tool for that OG.
Pac Tool Gecko Gauge.
They clip on the top row of siding, you drop the next row on, nail and move the clamps up a row.
Perfect fer doin' it yerself.
$60 a set at HD.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/PAC-Gecko-Siding-Gauge-for-5-16-in-Siding-1-Set-Per-Package-SA903/202530064
Dave's Arctic Cabin: www.anglersparadise.ca

Dave Sparks

Some of the metal siding has the screw under the seam so the washer is not in the sun. As with a standing seam roof I would hope the seam would hold the screw in place :P

I did my fiber cement siding 13 years ago and it was pretty new then. The guy I hired shot nails in like it was wood siding and we had cracks. Make sure the nails are hidden by the board above and do not think that more is better. Thanks to Don finding a 2 " wood looking metal strip it looks pretty good now.


"we go where the power lines don't"

bayview

It's worth the $$$ to purchase a saw blade designed for the fiber-cement.  I put a 10" blade in my chop saw and hooked it up to a shop vac.   Very little dust.

My first project I used an air nailer.   It will split the siding.  Purchase an 1/8" cement bit and drill before nailing.  It's not much extra work, especially if you hold up the siding with the fiber-cement "gauges".
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

MushCreek

I did fiber cement (Nichiha) on our house. It came out nice, but was rather labor-intensive. I would pre-cut about 8 pieces, prime the cuts, and put a coat of paint on before installing. The second coat of paint went on after it was all installed. The gauges mentioned work OK, but not on shorter pieces. There's not enough give in a short piece to use them. I did most of my cuts with a shear, and used a hand-held circular saw, and occasionally a jig saw for odd cuts. There 's little learning curve to get a clean cut with the shears. I was able to power nail mine, but it was too hard to keep the nails from going too deep, so I shot them shallow and finished by hand. I used SS ring shank siding nails. I installed mine over a drainage plane consisting of strips of PT plywood. Supposedly this allows moisture behind the siding to dry out, greatly lengthening the life of the paint. Time will tell.
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.

Dave Sparks

Quote from: bayview on April 21, 2017, 08:51:03 PM
It's worth the $$$ to purchase a saw blade designed for the fiber-cement.  I put a 10" blade in my chop saw and hooked it up to a shop vac.   Very little dust.

My first project I used an air nailer.   It will split the siding.  Purchase an 1/8" cement bit and drill before nailing.  It's not much extra work, especially if you hold up the siding with the fiber-cement "gauges".

The cracks did not show up for 3 years and so I believe it was expansion/contaction and having the board fastened incorrectly (exposed nails) was the failure cause. I can't imagine use a drill for a huge job so I disagree.

My paint has lasted 13 years and it still looks very good. It was a Kelly Moore Acrishield satin.
"we go where the power lines don't"


MountainDon

I used SoloSider hanger gauges that I bought at Amazon.  I found them to be invaluable.  My only criticism of them is that you need a different set for LP siding as the lap siding is a different thickness. So, I have a set of each; not a big deal. (the link is to the LP, they have the ones for hardi as well. )

I hand nailed every one. If the nail is set back the proper,suggested distance from the edge it never caused any splits or cracks.  I did try my nail gun with the pressure adjusted downwards to prevent full driving, but thought it more trouble than it was worth. The air gun never split anything either; I truly believe the critical factor is to keep the proper edge distance. Of course also do not overnail. An air gun nail when overdriven will crack the cement fiber for certain. I can not imagine drilling a hole for every nail. The premium label Behr paint with primer builtin, has stood up extremely well. This will be the 7th and 8th year We did the siding and paint over two years, fall and spring.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

akwoodchuck

"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."

Don_P

I hand nail and drill the ends. Also paint the ends which takes longer than drilling. I always thought siding was fast, the prep getting to that point is where the real time is.