Learning more about wood

Started by NathanS, January 22, 2017, 11:00:18 AM

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NathanS

I am starting learn more about cabinet making, and finishes in general.

I am trying to find good resources on the characteristics of different wood and am hoping some of you may have suggestions.

Today I am thinking about our staircase. I have seen how nice the multiple colors of hickory and Ash can look, but really I only know what google images spit out. Those hardwoods are expensive, and so that has me thinking, what if the risers, rail, ballusters, skirting, newell post, etc were made of hemlock or white pine to save money? And frankly, if I had to tell you which clear grained wood was which, I'm not sure I could. What about heart of pine stair treads?

There are two books by Bruce Hoadley that people seem to like, and Taunton published them - I have good luck with them and usually find their books very informative. Anyone read these? I am reserving "Understanding Wood" from the library.

akwoodchuck

My rules for woodworking are: hand pick every piece for grain, straightness, character, etc....let dry as long as possible...and then some. Most important, keep in mind that wood moves, you can't stop it from moving, you have to learn which techniques allow for expansion/contraction. Our city built a beautiful new library several years ago, and commissioned some amazing solid hardwood countertops with intricate inlay work, really impressive stuff...until somebody installed them by gluing them down to partboard bases...as they acclimated to the space, they tore themselves apart, now full of huge cracks. Seems like in your area you could find a wholesaler for cheap hardwood? Even up here I can get hickory, rustic maple for a few bucks a foot....poplar is even cheaper and finishes out beautifully with some more advanced techniques like shading....
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."


NathanS

One of the biggest hardwood suppliers in the US is 5 minutes from us, but they only sell by the pallet.

There is a shop in town that is a cabinet maker supplier too. I don't think it's really wholesale prices, but they didn't seem too bad. Soft and hard maple stair treads 1 1/8" were around $9 or so dollar a foot I think. Cherry was $15. I asked about Ash, he said I'm the first person to ever ask him about Ash stair treads (?), so he can't order thick stock to do them... he suggested hickory for $2-3 a foot more than maple. I think he said Mahogany would be around that too.

There is another cabinet maker that I think ships all over the US around here that we talked to on the phone. He said he could make us all the components for an Ash staircase if we wanted.

Truth about Ash, we like the light color, but because they are all dying off we thought it would be cool (100 yrs from now) to have a house with lots of Ash in it... not a whole lot of thought about it up till now other than that.


There are backyard sawmills around here, the problem with that is they are hard to get a hold of. On top of it, I would need to find someone that actually let the wood season for 5 or so years. I do know to test for moisture content. I already have a table saw, and intend to buy a planer and router, so I could in theory process rough cut - but that would be a lot of work.

Don_P

I think I told you about building my friend's coffin around Christmastime. One of the guys said we should use all the woods we could from his beloved Blue Ridge. We had something north of 20 species in it when we were done. As we sat at the shop door looking into the woods when we were done we decided we could do it again without repeating. The eastern forest is amazing in its diversity.

Lots of species, many of these boards had personal stories as well.

White oak on the sides top and bottom, apple in the center of the end, cherry on the side center, walnut bolsters, chestnut handles


Eastern Hophornbeam, American Chestnut, Ambrosia Red Maple

If you can stockpile and dry it there is some neat non commercial stuff in those little mills.

A couple of weeks ago I was asked to come up with a program for the upcoming school break. We decided a shop project would be good this time of year but we like to tie back to nature in as many ways as we can. So, I've been machining parts for tabletop trebuchets out of a bunch of different woods. In the shop I'll have the harder planks predrilled for nails to drop through, also hard to ding with a missed blow. Self polishing beech in the sling track, hickory, oak and walnut. The frame the nails attach to will be poplar and pine which will easily accept the nails. This should help set them up to succeed. I've been digging for some tupelo, black gum, mainly to get one of the guys to break out in song, but with its interlocked grain it is almost impossible to split, say around a pivot point in the weight basket, in this model they are poplar as I continue to dig in the barn. It was often used for pulleys, rollers, I've used it for timberframe splines. Yes, get to know their strengths and weaknesses. We'll have pieces of each species set up where they can try sawing and nailing to get a feel side by side how they initially work. Then we'll take a walk in the state forest and visit the trees, see who and what are associated with it, where it grows, etc.


There's a good 10 or 15 species of neat pieces leaned up behind the saw there. Too nice to throw away in the summer, the herd thins on cold days  :D

Aaanyway, to your question, I like VT dendro for tree ID and field work,
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/DENDROLOGY/factsheets.cfm

then the US Forest Product Labs is the go to for wood info
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/
Their "Wood Handbook", a must have;
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/publications/specific_pub.php?posting_id=18102&header_id=p
This is a good place to start though;
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/research/centers/woodanatomy/techsheets_display.php?geo_category_id=2&genus_commonname_criteria=c&sorting_rule=1a

MountainDon

Cool stuff.   [cool]

Quote from: Don_P on January 22, 2017, 08:48:23 PM
The eastern forest is amazing in its diversity. \

I was amazed at the variety of trees in a small area. Sure beats the virtual monoculture of much of the west.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Don_P

#5
we had been working out west for about a year and had been enjoying it and the friends we were making. We were being offered a very nice piece of land in exchange for building another house. About then the film "Last of the Mohicans" came out, filmed in the Blue Ridge. She was done.

MountainDon

We have a bunch of preschoolers here who would love a trebuchet.   :-\

Blue Ridge is very pretty.  I'd like to go back there sometime.  This year is Nova Scotia, Cape Breton, PEI
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

hpinson

Probably hard to fit it in Don, but Newfoundland is unforgettable.  Get over to it if you can.

Don_P

Quote from: MountainDon on January 22, 2017, 11:23:28 PM
We have a bunch of preschoolers here who would love a trebuchet.   :-\

That's easily done, I think this preschooler left a chocolate in a light fixture  ;D


MountainDon

Newfoundland.  Yes it would be nice. But most likely a step too far given the time and budget. I've been in Gander airport but that doesn't really count does it.  ;)   Maybe we'll move there depending on how this Trump thing works out.  ;D
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

NathanS

#10
Don P that casket is a beauty. Thank you for sharing.

I should have known to look at US forestry resources. I have used them, and the NYS DEC resources when learning to identify the trees in our area. Which at least around here I actually can identify most stuff pretty well - identifying slices of it is where I start to get confused.

They also have a really good write up on the management of north eastern hardwood forests that I read.. really interesting. Although a lot of the management practices seemed to revolve around maximum wood production.. I think somewhere around 22" DBH+ is 'over mature.' That's where they're just starting to get good if you ask me. :)

Those kids will be glad to have that knowledge some day. I wish I had been exposed to it when I was younger.


When we spent a good chunk of time out west we were surprised by the largely single species stands of trees. When we were on the north rim of the grand canyon, Kaibab National Forest actually, we went for a hike down into one of the feeder canyons (north rim trail #4 to #7.. had to look it up) the variety down in the canyon was strikingly just like being back east. This was towards the end of the trip, and one of the moments we realized we wanted to live back east.

National Forests are the real treasure in the western states. We preferred them to the parks by a long shot. This was taken in the canyon.