12x16 Mt Hood "Workshop Chalet"

Started by DirtyLittleSecret, February 19, 2009, 12:04:20 AM

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DirtyLittleSecret

Figure'd its about time to share what's been accomplished thus far...
Got the well replumbed with new pipe, fittings, pump, and exterior piping to two freeze proof spigots.  Trenched 150', and used PEX for the runout.  Used a 1HP Harbor Freight pump for now, and have good pressure.  Since the county told me that there is a "lost power line" in this vicinity, and they were not able to locate it, I decided to hand dig the trench 3'.  Glad that part is over!

Poured 56 bags of 80# Quickrete 5000 into 10" tubes with BF24 footers for the foundation.  Dirty work, but glad I'll never worry about whether its enough.  I know my bracing wasnt perfect, but it worked.  Used the Simpson mounts CF66(?) as PEG and Don advised, and let it cure for a week.  A BIG thank you from everyone thus far for all the sage advice.  Used a great deal of your input, and for a novice Ive got some results.  Also found that my local lumber yard does carry Advantex (but nobody here in the NW is listed with them).  Used Simpson strong ties everywhere I could, etc...

BTW: Is there a general rule in regards to cross bracing these floors?  Every other joist @ 45 degrees or something of the sort?

The last two days I got busy and got thus far:
Jerry rigged bracing for concrete:

Joists (2x10 @ 16" o/c):

Subflooring done!

Thumb, meet hammer...hammer, meet thumb...

Beavers

Looks great!

You mixed all that concrete AND dug 150' trench by hand?  Man...you have got to be ready for a vacation!  :o


DirtyLittleSecret

Yeah, a little tired, but I kinda wanted to do much of the grunt work by hand (a good excuse).  Finally got the ok from work to finally take a few days off next month and will give a good college try...

Have a few questions though, and hope that I can bother you all some more. Figure there are so many opportunities wasted by projects which never got the insight of those with the experience of "coulda, woulda, shoulda".  If anyone can see anything needing changing, or have some neat ideas please share!

Will be "prebuilding" the two gable walls on the deck before vacation time to get a head start on things.  Curious whether its a good idea to add hurricane ties (ie: H 2.5's) for the 2x6 studs?  Planning to use 2x8's @ 16' o/c  for the ceiling joists (for a double loft) and rafters since I want it stout for snow country.  

Thumb, meet hammer...hammer, meet thumb...

DirtyLittleSecret

#28
Had a few days off after a week in DC, and got to swinging...decided to go with the Huber Zip System siding and roofing rather than the standard sheets/tar paper (nothing wrong with it though I was physically limited as is!).
Camping spot w/ BBQ:

2x6 framing (was a heavy lift):

More framing:

Sheeting up, and scratching my head on the rafters (2x8x12's).  Had two books that made little sense.  Finally told myself that this wasnt rocket science and sharpened my pencil to figure it out...unfortunately I think I overlooked one issue...the gable overhangs.  Should I just cut out slots for 2x6 crossmembers with my recip saw and knock them in?  Or, is there a better/easier way?


Anyone got some ideas as to how I should add the support members for the outside rafters (24" overhang)?

As it sits today:


BTW: I'm new to all of this so go easy on me for the oversight.  I've learned that a 10:12 roof makes for heavy work with 4x8' sheeting, and one can never have enough nails or Zip tape.  Most of what I've applied I learned by browsing this site and my doodle pad.  If I'm missing anything please let me know.  Next on my list is finishing the roof sheeting, gables, metal roofing, and hardipanel siding.

Thumb, meet hammer...hammer, meet thumb...

glenn kangiser

I assume they are there but do you have ceiling joists to keep the walls from spreading?  They don't seem to show in the picture.

I assume you could brace the overhangs with soffit framing.  (Note that I am a structural steel guy that knows enough about framing only to be dangerous).

http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14044/css/14044_47.htm     check this out.

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


bayview

    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

Don_P

Table 802.5.1(9) in the IRC codebook gives the minimum connection required in the joint between rafter and ceiling joist depending on snow load.
This is a calc I put together after a class on rafter/ceiling joist design, I suspect your snowload is going to be off the chart.
http://windyhilllogworks.com/Calcs/Sloped%20Rafter%20Design%20for%20Bending1.htm
I like Glenn's pic better I might steal it and put it on top of the page, I'm assuming that is a government publication?

The right side shoe on most skillsaws is 1-1/2" from edge of saw to edge of shoe. This would give you a 1-5/8" plunge cut for notching for the lookouts then a sawzall for the vertical parts of the notch. That would give a better cut. Then rip some shim to take up the difference and put it under the lookout.

The ridge should be wide enough to extend to the bottom of the rafter plumb cuts and then the hardware is unneccessary. Not trying to pick it apart just save folks looking on some bucks and possible inspector trouble.

John Raabe

#32
Here's another valuable on-line building manual (PDF) that has been linked to before.

http://www.awc.org/pdf/WCD1-300.pdf

The tpub link above was not very readable on my computer for some reason.

Hey Don_P! Thanks for the great Rafter Design chart you worked up!

Glad to have someone here with this kind of information. Much appreciated :D :D :D :D

Question: Could DLS use exposed rafter ties at alternative rafters to handle the outward thrust? And, could he get enough nails in to handle the shear? (I assume that as snow loads accumulate that this will likely be the limiting factor.) This way he could have a more open feel to this little building.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

Don_P

thanks John, I haven't checked any of DLS's numbers on it , just stuck it up there. I recall he was talking about a loft floor so we probably aren't seeing everything in the pics. At 150 psf that 4' eaves overhang needs checking too.


DirtyLittleSecret

Quote from: glenn kangiser on June 24, 2009, 12:21:52 AM
I assume they are there but do you have ceiling joists to keep the walls from spreading?  They don't seem to show in the picture.

I assume you could brace the overhangs with soffit framing.  (Note that I am a structural steel guy that knows enough about framing only to be dangerous).

http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14044/css/14044_47.htm     check this out.



Thanks for all the great stuff guys.  I did add ceiling joists (pbucket wont load right now, but there are 7 joists w/ 2x8's).  
Poor photo:


Does anyone have an example of the soffit framing?  I'm assuming this is different from the lookout design?  Sounds like I need to plan on notching out my rafters this weekend and wrapping up the gables.
Quote from: Don_P on June 24, 2009, 09:21:38 AM
The right side shoe on most skillsaws is 1-1/2" from edge of saw to edge of shoe. This would give you a 1-5/8" plunge cut for notching for the lookouts then a sawzall for the vertical parts of the notch. That would give a better cut. Then rip some shim to take up the difference and put it under the lookout.


Good to know.  Any idea as to what distance to have the lookouts?  I'm assuming every 24" along the rafter?
All ideas are welcomed.
Thumb, meet hammer...hammer, meet thumb...

Don_P

I generally go 2' centers when doing gable overhangs that way. In heavy snow country they should really be up on edge atop an angled gable rake wall, there's ~640lbs bearing on each flatways 2x6 at design load. If you ever see that much snow don't be too suprised if it doesn't make it. A couple of brackets under there would help if you are concerned, look around at Arts and Crafts period homes as you drive around for ideas.

For a level soffit, which would be the best structural thing here apply the subfascia, stringline it and adjust it straight. Run a level from the subfascia back to the building wall at each end and snap a line down the wall. That is the bottom of a 2x4 ledger nailed at each stud. Lookouts are nailed alongside each rafter tail back to the ledger. I usually box the ends of the level soffit at the building line, some folks carry that "pork chop" out to the end of the overhang at the gables, looks too heavy to me on steep pitches with large overhangs though. Apply finish fascia and soffit. If that didn't make sense I can probably find an old photo.

It looks like the ceiling/floor joists are tied to the wall studs and not the rafters, that is a weaker connection there, maybe a few long oly screws down thru the plates into the cj's. Also the joists need to bear on a ledger or something so the floor weight is not just hanging on nails.

DirtyLittleSecret

Quote from: Don_P on June 25, 2009, 10:56:21 AM
I generally go 2' centers when doing gable overhangs that way. In heavy snow country they should really be up on edge atop an angled gable rake wall, there's ~640lbs bearing on each flatways 2x6 at design load. If you ever see that much snow don't be too suprised if it doesn't make it. A couple of brackets under there would help if you are concerned, look around at Arts and Crafts period homes as you drive around for ideas.

Interesting.  Do you have any examples of how this would be constructed?  Is it similiar to pg 43 (figure 53):http://www.awc.org/pdf/WCD1-300.pdf?

For a level soffit, which would be the best structural thing here apply the subfascia, stringline it and adjust it straight. Run a level from the subfascia back to the building wall at each end and snap a line down the wall. That is the bottom of a 2x4 ledger nailed at each stud. Lookouts are nailed alongside each rafter tail back to the ledger. I usually box the ends of the level soffit at the building line, some folks carry that "pork chop" out to the end of the overhang at the gables, looks too heavy to me on steep pitches with large overhangs though. Apply finish fascia and soffit. If that didn't make sense I can probably find an old photo.

Made sense enough to me...

It looks like the ceiling/floor joists are tied to the wall studs and not the rafters, that is a weaker connection there, maybe a few long oly screws down thru the plates into the cj's. Also the joists need to bear on a ledger or something so the floor weight is not just hanging on nails.

I did use Simpson hangers for the joists, and added solid bridging.  Would lag screws be appropriate for adding strength to the ceiling joists?
Thumb, meet hammer...hammer, meet thumb...

Don_P

Yes, Fig 53 is what I was describing as the best way to frame the overhang.

This is a couple of shots of some support brackets I made to hold up a little shade roof, they were often used as supports under gable overhangs.

They are quite strong if you mortise and tennon the brace in.


I really can't tell from the pics exactly how the cj's are framed.