Big Toy Question

[optionguru]

I currently have an older ford tractor with loader that I use for general purpose work.  My garbage company does some light demolition (sheds, trailers and small barns) and I've heard that a bobcat with a grapple bucket might be a better choice.  I've also seen a grapple on ebay that can be added to my tractors loader bucket.

Has anyone used one or both of these?  Any opinions?

[MB25ACRES]

I have not but if you want info from those that have check out this site.                           www.tractorbynet.com
they have a forum and are very helpful.
Mike Barrett

[optionguru]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

[glenn kangiser]

I have both.  There is no comparison between the two.  In my opinion they each have their own place.  I use the tractor for patching and grading driveways, grading pads and things I want a bit smoother.

I use the Bobcat for tearing things up - moving big amounts of dirt fast - digging - got a small trencher for it, a jack hammer.  I want to build my own grapple to go over my bucket as I saw one that is a rock screen -- but I want one for placing big rocks too.  Turn it over with a load of rocks and dirt in it -- the dirt falls out --the rocks stay in until the grapple- screen is opened.  I have a DitchWitch backhoe I want to adapt to it.  

The Bobcat is like riding a big excavator bucket.  I put tracks on mine over the tires to keep from shredding them-- I think this is better than a dedicated track Bobcat as tracks are expensive and wouldn't last 500 hours in our clay with embedded sharp rock.  I could tear a set of tires off this machine in about 10 hours - so much power you can't help but spin the tires -- or the tracks for that matter.

The tractor -loader will take 3 times the amount of time to do what the Bobcat will.  By the hour that is maybe OK - by the job you will make more money with the Bobcat then you will find you want more attachments for it too.  I bought a Sweeper for mine for 600.00  -- pulled the cash out and handed it to him before he changed his mind.  I paid 2500 for my jack hammer used from a rental company.  Trencher - very well rebuilt 1500.  I have the 963 -- I like big but an 863 or similar is good too.  The 963 is a real beast -- drives like the little ones but has 105 horsepower and 29 gpm Hyd. flow to run the toys that want a lot of oil.  Note that if you go with a high flow machine on the smaller ones, load capacity is greatly reduced to get the greater hydraulic flow.

I would recommend that you take a Bobcat for a spin to find out the answer -- just don't get upset with me if you buy one.  I talked to a guy that used the Cat answer to the Bobcat -- He didn't like it.  We have been using a customers Ford machine on a job - it is nothing compared to the Bobcat, then again it is a bit old.  My Bobcat is a 97model - discontined but still a great machine.

[optionguru]

Have you had any experience with the bobcat in snow.  My biggest fear is the smaller tires having much less grip in snow.

[glenn kangiser]

My old Bobcat was out of service at the time we had snow but I still think it would have had more traction than the tractor -- my tractor is a Ford 3550 I think - 2 wheel drive.  Bobcats are 4 wheel drive.   I plowed snow with it but had to be very careful about getting stuck.  The Bobcat with tracks over the tires is unstoppable---- unless you high center it on a rock.  In loose dirt or mud you can push yourself out with the bucket by tipping it down and pushing backward as you back up.  Works on near vertical banks too with the tracks - up to 2 or 3 feet high if the tracks will bite into them enough to get you started as you back up. Going up steep hills forward requires a full bucket.

You might want to ask someone locally how they do in your type of snow. Frozen hard snow could be different.  Again - the tracks will take care of that but they are not cheap.  McLaren tracks have diamonds cast into the grousers for some bite.  There are also rubber block and steel plate tracks for the smaller Bobcats.

[optionguru]

The smaller Bobcats tend to be the ones in my price range.  My tractor is a 601 Workmaster (also 2wd)that thankfully is still running great.  Do you think the 853 with 52 horse is the lowest you would go?  I've seen some much cheaper but they tend to have 30hp or so.  Is this a classic get what you pay for scenario?  I'm leaning toward the skid steer because it seems to be a better jack of all trades.

I get some light demo work but then I also get brush removal and scrap metal clean up etc..  I think a skid steer with a few attachments could probably do almost everything I need.  The price tag is just a tough pill to take.

Thanks again for all of your advice and information.

[glenn kangiser]

853 with 52 HP( specs show 58) would do a great job for you.  My old 825 was the first 800 series and only had 38 horsepower and did a great job for me for about 15 years.

Not sure what year model you are looking at but even the oldest http://www.bobcat.com/products/historical/display.item.html?yearSearch=0&machineType=SSL&itemId=340&SUBMIT=Lookup+This+Model

has 17.9 gpm on the hydraulics which is good.   My old 825 had only about 13 which is pretty low.  I would be sure not to get any high flow model unless I had a specific use for it.

[glenn kangiser]

On the get what you pay for thing--

Not so much if you know engines and machines - buy from a pretty reputable person and check it out good.

Check the engine oil, water - blowby (pull the filler cap off with engine running - look for blowby )- leaks - tires etc.  Take your time - have problems fixed or use them for price leverage if you thing you can and want to do it.

I have only old machines -

My Bobcat 963 had 4000 hours but had a new engine - hydraulics were tight - dealer made an exception for oil leak coverage as we found some oil in the belly pan - It was  not a major problem.  I got it for 15995 which is the same as the smaller models average on the cheap end.  It is very large 10000 lbs and high horsepower so not as popular with th guys who want to do back yard work.  I got Ag financing on this one but may times use a leasing company to pay only 2 payments down then deduct all payments from tax each year as rent.  Get a $1.00 buy out option and be sure to watch the lease fine print for an "evergreen clause" (automatic renewal) option-- cross it out or walk out if they won't get rid of it-- cost me $5000 a couple years ago to an unscroupulous lease co.

Or pay cash if you have it.

Order and study the books on it for any problems after you get it.  These things are compact so necessarily hard to work on --however I think the engineers worked overtime on some of the stuff to increase the repair difficulty level. :-/