Well pump help sort of

Started by Mark.alan65, February 25, 2017, 11:23:52 PM

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Mark.alan65

I have county water but due to the height that my house sits, I get no water at the county line in my front yard. My house sits 125 feet above the main. I was told that I would need to install a pump to push the water up to the house. I would also need to add an additional power meter down at the main to power the pump. The county will be providing a psi reading at the main to me next week. I don't mind doing this but if possible I would like to install the pump at my driveway. Do any of you know know of a way to make this possible? I am not sure of the distance from the driveway to the main, but I would guess it is a few hundred feet. I am also not sure how far up the main can get water to flow.

Thanks,

Mark

flyingvan

   Water can be pushed pretty easily, but not pulled much at all---especially when it's hot and/or high elevation.   The most cost effective solution might be two pumps, with check valves.
    Your house pressure will be--Pressure at the main minus friction loss minus gravity loss.
     Many variables here.  What size pipe?  How many turns?  How much flow do you want in GPM?  What pressure do you want at the house?

    I will assume every one of these variables in this example, OK?

   ----You are using 1" PVC pipe.
   ----You want 80 PSI at the house.
   ----You want 20 GPM flow.
   ----10 PSI at the main

   ----1" PVC will give you 9.4 PSI loss per 100' at 20 GPM, so 11.75 psi loss.  Your gravity loss is 54.16 psi (125' X .4333)

   80 +  11.75 +  54.16 = 145.91 (call it 146) Good news!  you get to subtract that 10 psi from the main.  You only need to pump 136 psi.  Maximum working pressure for schedule 40 is 270 psi.

    You have options.   Two lower pressure pumps spaced equally apart (elevation-wise) might save money.  Installing a large water tank near the house so you can get by with a lower GPM pump feeding the tank, then another pump between the tank and the house, might be an option too
Find what you love and let it kill you.


JRR

Back in the good old days, say 30 years ago or so; I would direct you to the Sears Roebuck catalog for all the info you would need to buy all sorts of water pumps the suburbanite might need ... complete with all engineering stuff needed.  Today I would suggest you look for something like "deep well dual-drop (two-pipe) jet water pump system".   I have installed several over the years ... years ago.  This sort of system will allow you to have the recirculating pump up near the house with only two plastic pipes going downhill to the water source.  Down at the water source the two pipes will connect to a water jet...which inserts water into the two-pipe loop.  I think this system will handle the elevations you speak off.  Good luck!

JRR

Here is some explanation:
http://inspectapedia.com/water/Jet_Pump_2_Line.php

You may need to place the motor and recirculating pump ''downhill" a bit, away from the house ... as far as typical electrical wiring will allow.  This will allow the pumping system to work under less elevation "head", and be more effective.  Once the jet adds supply water to the pipe loop, the recirculating pump will push it out of the loop at almost any pressure you need.

Mark.alan65

Hey thanks for the replies. I had looked at the 2 line jet pump and thought about trying it. I had planned to use a large pressure tank to boost the pressure to the house. I also thought about adding a storage tank behind the house. I will probably do that in the future so that I can have water even with the loss of power.

I will see if the county will add a second line, or allow me to do it on their easement since I don't own all of the land down to the bottom where the main is located.


Mark.alan65

I have a little update on the water pump and such. I found out that I have a 2 inch line running from the bottom of the hill up to my driveway. A reducer drops it down to 1 inch poly pipe. I have been told that the 125' is the same as 54 PSI.  I would figure adding at least 60 PSI to the incoming 50 PSI at the bottom of the hill. This will give you 50 PSI at the top of the hill. It also means running a booster pump system with a 100/120 pressure switch setting and all the stuff that goes with such high pressure.

I would over size the pump a little in case the city only gives you 20-30 PSI instead of 50 PSI. A Goulds 10GB10 would work. Then I would oversize the pressure tank a little bit because of the 100/120 pressure. A 44 gallon pressure tank will only hold 6.5 gallons at that high pressure. This is still more pressure tank than you need when used with a CSV1A. The CSV1A would be set to hold a constant 110 PSI, so the pump isn't cycling between 100 and 120 while you are using water. Also going to need a GHG2 style pressure switch for 100/120 setting.

If any of you have any experience with such, can you please give me feedback on the above equipment?

Thanks

Mark

JRR

If the county will allow you to make a temp tap on their line, you could execute some interesting experiments.  (If allowed, you will probably have to include an anti-backflow device after the tap.)

If you then would connect a simple garden hose which you could use to determine at what point up your drive way the pressure dies to nothing.  So by walking up, down the hill you can gain some insight into where a booster pump should be installed.

Have fun.

SouthernTier

Quote from: JRR on April 03, 2017, 05:21:08 PM
If the county will allow you to make a temp tap on their line, you could execute some interesting experiments.  (If allowed, you will probably have to include an anti-backflow device after the tap.)

If you then would connect a simple garden hose which you could use to determine at what point up your drive way the pressure dies to nothing.  So by walking up, down the hill you can gain some insight into where a booster pump should be installed.

Have fun.

It's a little more complicated than that since that would be the point where the hydrostatic head was overcome.  Once you start pumping, you also have frictional losses between that point and the line in the street, so that point of zero-gauge-pressure would actually be lower down.  I posted in another thread about how to total up both the hydrostatic and the frictional losses here: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12608.msg167943#msg167943

JRR

#8
Seems to me that with a known volume (say a 5-gallon bucket) and a watch, one could easily measure the maximum county water GPM yields at points up and down the hill ... by just dumping water out of a hose into a bucket.  Might be more accurate to "measure" than to "calculate".   Select the elevation/location that suits your flow needs ... and locate the pump near.

Not exact science, I'd admit ... the diameter of the hose is a variable, and so it the "suction" of the pump to be used, etc, etc, .... but a good first step approximation I believe.