Tranquility Base - request for comments

[Sassy]

Great site, Judy (Artesano).

[Bruce]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the informative comments. This is exactly what I was looking for - the wisdom of the collective to identify my artificially imposed constraints and cause me to think about the plan in new ways. Life's been busy lately with getting ready for the hollidays and learning about concrete and related products. This Texas weather is very strange this year.

Judy, that Tadelakt looks like it may be a perfect match for my solution - thanks!! My old fiberglass jacuzzi died a few years ago and I have been missing it a little bit (I don't miss the maintenance it consummed). Perhaps a custom Tadelakt finished jucizzi would be a good practice project.

scottb, I like the way you think. Everyone has their own priorities and compromises for house layout and construction material consumption. I tried the layout I think you're suggesting because it did save on the plumbing components - I didn't care for the general traffic flow that floorplan generated and the wife wanted an exterior window over the sink. The extra 10 feet of supply plumbing and an additional vent was an easy sacrafice decision for me.

Glenn, your comment and link to FlyingConcrete turned my world upside down. At first, I wanted to dismiss concrete construction because I didn't understand it - perhaps I still don't. But I see that it is a viable construction alternative and a more versatile media than I originally imagined. The examples of concrete construction I've seen in the past were poor representatives of the available possibilities (they were institutioanally and grossly utilitarian). I did some other searching and found http://monolithic.com - lots of good information about superinsulated thinshell monolithic domes and concrete house construction in general. By combining the concepts, we get two dead birds and one bloody rock. Lightweight insulating concrete reduces or eliminates the need for expensive urathane foam and it distributes structual support more homogeneously. Two issues remain unanswered for me - cost effectiveness and esthetics. I haven't convinced myself that an equivilent concrete house would have lower construction costs for the basic structure (especially considering my highly expansive soil). I do like the available economics of finishing with the various cement products. I like the laid-back mood of the "remote vacation cabin by the lake" which conventional wood framing matches very well. The well-done concrete houses I've seen in the web searches look more urban and maybe even a little bit too formal or sterile for my tastes. I've found examples of concrete versitility in simulating the appearance of other materials - I think getting the look and attitude of the house any way I want it, is possible, but I would feel more confident if I could see existing examples. I'll continue researching this avenue.

I'll let yall draw your own conclusions about what coffee is suitable or even preferable. I like the option that I have selected for myself, I just wish I had known about it many years earlier. I'm drinking some of the best coffee available and experimenting with unique blends and roast profiles, all for about the same price as grocerystore coffee (that includes shipping and roasting costs) And about that Kopi Luwak - I've never tried it, but I'm convinced that it bagan as some kind of fratertinity hazing ritual where the inductee cleverly turned the tables by pretending to like it. I can get a bushel of clean fresh oats for a fair price - if it has already gone through the horse, I can get it quite a bit cheaper. But coffee from the south end of a north-bound cat doesn't follow that economic paradigm.

[Dimitri]

Bruce,

If it makes you feel better about the weather its December 18, in Southern Ontario Canada and I still don't have snow and its not even below freezing for the next week it seems! Normally I have snow and freezing tempuratures at this time of year.  

Dimitri

[Bruce]

Just a little update so yall know I haven't died. The search for a concrete based solution has been interresting for me. I've found a general plan that I think I like http://ferrocement.com/casa-contents/contents.en-ferroHouse-web.html  I've adjusted the walls (and still doing some adjusting).

There are some features of this construction method that I like very much. Dimensions are not based on a module of 4 feet to conserve raw materials - the walls go where they look right. Curves and bends add grace and strength while the variation in the curves gives a more organic and less geometric mood. Cost of materials works out to be about 3/5 of the conventionally frammed equiv (with even more savings when the cement is used as the finished surfaces).

One of the negatives with this approach is that future floorplan expansion opportunities are much more difficult to arrange.

It's almost time for me to break out the playdough to make a scale model

[glenn kangiser]

This link is posted on another thread , in case you haven't seen it --you may be interested.

http://www.texasmusicforge.com/gimmeshelter.html
Gimme Shelter - Page 1.

Grab some nice lacy undergarments and cement them to the side of your house - meshcrete starting around page 55 or so.

Don't forget Fibermesh for ferrocrete - stucco type products to really increase strength cheaply and easily.  Available at the ready mix plant in 1 lb bags - avg 1 per yard - we do it by a handfull or so per mixer load on small scale.

[Bruce]

That's an impressive blog!! It really portrays the extent and level of effort involved in solo-building a house. I'd like to see something like that with all ferrocement construction (no airframe) - still, there were many handy tips for me.

and about the meshcrete, I think I have an old torn prom dress that would make a good start  

[glenn kangiser]

I'll bet you looked right smart in the prom dress in your day.

Remember this pix of Jonesy? :-?



Now that tutu would make some nice meshcrete if we could just get it away from him.

[jonsey/downunder]

Hang on a minute Mate, I've only just fixed the welding spark holes and now you want to get concrete all over it. How on earth am I supposed to get through tonight's performance of the nutcracker with a tutu in that condition?

[glenn kangiser]

Life is tough all over, Jonesy.  

I knew you were pretty good, but the nutcracker? and you in a mended tutu. I hope you don't ride your bike to your performance.  In the meantime we'll have to find another source of lace for Bruce's meshcrete.

[glenn kangiser]

Here's another idea for you Bruce..  Add to your alternative concrete ideas.  Fishnet.

Not too well documented but the ideas and enough info there to figure it out.

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/manythings/page5.html

[Freeholdfarm]

Well, I'm going to stick my nose in here with some comments.  Bruce, I like your design -- it's good to see people designing what works for *them* rather than generic ticky tacky boxes built with resale in mind!  And I think the 'hijacking' and chit-chat is fun -- even though I don't drink coffee!  

I have two ideas for your house.  First, how about adding a door on the wall next to the window seat, out of the hall there, and a porch there?  It would give a different location for sitting outside in case the sun wasn't where you wanted it on your deck (too much, or not enough, depending on the weather).

Also, it looks like the bathroom *might* work better if you put the tub across the end wall, where the toilet is now.  Then put the toilet next to the tub -- I think there's room for it on the wall between the bath and the hall.  And put the sink counter where the tub is now.  Right now it looks like there isn't much room between the tub and the sink counter -- I think the arrangement I've suggested might give a little more turning-around space.  However, the best way to find out is to draw both arrangements to scale on graph paper!

Kathleen

[Bruce]

Glenn, your mind is a treasurehouse of great ideas. I like the idea of nylon reinforcement as in successive laminations of meshcrete to distribute the tensile bearing members throughout the matrix. I'm exploring the engineering of a wall with 4 inch high density EPS as the core and multiple layers of meshcrete on both sides - no steel in the recipe and minimal thermal conduction. I'm thinking about using nylon cord to sew the first doubled layer of mesh to the EPS (acts as wall ties). The doubled layer is laid horizontal and vertical to make the tensile charistics more continuous (much like the overlap of the typical rebar). I think the concept works like a stressed skin structure. I want to use maximise the meshcrete on the inside for thermal mass and have only enough on the outside to protect the EPS from weather and impact damage (hail).

I'm having a difficult time locating usable "material strength" data that I can apply to my design. I find plenty of empirical examples specifying #3 to #5 rebar for particular structural locations and not enough information about matching strength to anticipated loads. I observe that many designs appear way over-built with the rebar capable of all the compressive and tensile loads while the cement merely "chinks" the gaps in the rebar. The typical rebar structure is strong enough to support all the wet cement load placed quickly. I'll basically be working alone and using manual methods, so I can allow yesterday's initial set to support today's placement (very much the way Bill Birdsall described in the link you provided).

Kathleen, thanks for your comments about the bathroom layout, I'll have to think about it some more. I put the tub in that location so doubled floor joists would support it and the cantilevered windowseat. The scale is fairly close on that drawing and while the bathroom is not exactly spacious, there would be enough elbow room. It's not consistent with universal design principles, so I hope I never need a wheelchair.

The door idea is really good and I played with that option, but never found anything I liked. The 14 foot wall behind the recliner area is somewhat temporary. In the next phase of the house development, there would be a "great room" attached there and the entire wall would be open for good access to the kitchen. The great room would have doors to access the yard area outside the windowseat. Eventually, this yard area would be a small private courtyard.

I still like this design even though right now I'm exploring alternative options with ferrocrete. It's interesting that there are no "perfect" house designs - everything is at best balanced compromises. Perhaps perfect designs live only in 4 dimensional space-time.

[glenn kangiser]

Glenn, your mind is a treasurehouse of great ideas

I don't know Bruce - maybe more of an abyss.

In India, there are concrete shell structures reinforced with Hessian - (jute )- that are spanning up to 60 feet with concrete and no steel.

You will not find engineering data on a lot of this stuff as it is low cost.  Money drives engineering firms, corporations that manufacture goods to seel to consumers, testing agencies, permit agencies and taxing entities.

No one is going to spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on testing low cost alternative building, therefore we are often stuck with doing our own testing and experimenting or relying on the works of like minded individuals.  This requires doing things in non-regulated areas or under the radar.

Ken Kern published information about the light duty concrete floor used in India.  Rated  at 40 to 50 lbs per foot but in use would support 250 per foot using jute and concrete less than 1" thick.  

I posted this in Rainwater Harvest but it's a good tutorial on ferrocrete also.  http://www.eng.warwick.ac.uk/DTU/pubs/tr/rwh/rwhtr01/tr01.html