How close is close enough?

Started by Mia, November 19, 2006, 01:58:13 AM

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Mia

Trying to make sure the basement walls are level before we hang the joists.
We have 9 ft high concrete walls on the uphill side, and on the downhill side, 2 ft concrete then 7 ft of wood to make 9 ft walls.  (Daylight basement)  Footprint is 24 ft x 48 ft.  We have 4 x 8's on top of the walls (pressure treated over the concrete).   We bought a transit to make sure the top of the walls are level.
It did rain like, um, heck for several days after we got all the wood walls framed up.  (We are in W Oregon, you might have heard how wet it was in the 1st half of Nov.  We spent a few days digging drainage ditches to minimize mud slides.)  So I know that could make a difference in the texture of the wood.
I think we are just making ourselves crazy measuring & remeasuring with the transit.  We have done this at least 6 or 7 times.  Over the course of 48 feet, the height difference is either 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch.  
How do we fix this?  Or should we not worry about it?   What would a professional do?  I haven't see any pros using a transist to check the level anyway.
Thanks for your help!
You can't have everything without having too much of something.

PEG688

#1
Your watching the wrong "pro's" then ;D

 So is it 1/2" or 3/4"?? New transit? Or is it a builders level? Or do you know the difference?  Well either way

#1 set up in the middle, (this lessen any inaccuraciey in the unit and your set up , as you'll only be shooting 1/2 the distance )

#2:  Make sure it's set up right, if it a transit or builders level with a little level vial adjust at all 4 compass points , tweaking the adj. till it's right on.


#3:  Take your shots , write down on the plan or wall your #'s for each wall /corner/ mid way points.


#4: If it is off,  can you loosen the foundations nuts and jack up the low spots so they are level?? If so use some mortar , yes mortar , ( no rocks / aggragate/ lumps,) to parg under the elevated sill plates , use wide cedar shims when the space gets to small to force the mortar under the plates . On the shims , over lap them ,   one from each side , so you don't just tilt the sill plate  ;)

#5: [highlight]You can do it[/highlight] to within 1/8" you'll be happier in the long run 3/4" out is to much , at least for me .

Did you do your own pour?  If you hired it out and they got that sloppy with height , ya better dbl. check for square and any setbacks , offset, bays before you order truss , if you will be  :-/ from the plan .  

 Ya it's been a long rainy fall , hey the good news is winter is coming  ;)

G/L PEG ;)    
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .


JRR

I agree with PEG, you want to correct it as well as you can.  I use an old surveyor's optical transit and try to get sills within 1/8" or so.  I use small 8 1/2" squares of asphalt shingles as shims between the masonry and the sill plates.  There is also a continous run of asphalt roofing material along top of 8" foundation wall to act as a water separator... the shims actually sit atop this material.

Mia

It is a new transit, a Berger, & a new user (me).  My husband learned to use a transit in high school ag class, way back in the last century & has used one since in shooting foundations while he worked on a framing crew.  He was an ironworker by trade, so was used to working with a tolerance of 1/32 plus or minus.  Hard to do with wood, especially working outside.  He says the difference from north to south on the 48 foot front wall is 1/2".
I set up the transit & I get that bubble exactly centered, 4 directions.   I read the booklet that came with the transet.  and I am careful not to bump the tripod legs.  And I do set up in the middle, already knew that.
I think that part of the problem with my discrepancy in readings is that we aren't always reading in exactly the same places, & the rain soaked wood is a bit uneven.
How many readings should we take over 48 feet?  At each end & in the middle, of course, but otherwise how close?  every 4 feet?
A professional did the pour.  the 9 foot back wall is just fine.  It is the front wall, with wood on top of the 2 foot concrete wall that is giving us trouble.   We aren't going to tear down all that wood & unbolt the green plate, complete with Simpson brackets, to level the wall.  We did shoot the front wall, at least twice, after attaching the green plate & it was level at that point.
We will loosen the top 4x8's & use plywood, cut to the 7.5 inches wide, & shims to get it level.
And why are we doing this all by ourselves?  Well, all those folks who we have helped over the years, who said they would help when were in the planning stages, didn't have time when it came time to do the work.  Or they wanted to argue about how we were doing it when they know less than we do.  (You'd be surprised - maybe - how many people think that if the transit reading at one end is a higher number that it means that corner is too high, not too low.)   So, we are over budget & way off our schedule & will keep building, slowly, despite the weather.
We always seem to do things the hard way.
Why is it a good thing that winter is coming?  more rain, & cold, & sometimes ice.  (no building in the ice.  we can use that time to pare down excessive possessions at present abode.)
I would send pix if I could figure it out.  I think we need another piece of hardware to connct the digital comera to the computer.  Camera was 2nd hand, no instructions with it.
Thanks!
You can't have everything without having too much of something.

Amanda_931

#4
If you have to connect the camera to the computer, you probably also need the proprietary software from the camera maker.

If your printer--or computer has a handful of little slots on it for memory cards--the way a lot of HP ones do, you may already have what you need.

Failing that, a card reader that will read whatever kind of card you have will do it beautifully, pretending that the card is yet another drive.  Probably less hassle than downloading the camera software, not terribly expensive.

(then all you need is the software for editing--although yesterday Daddymem posted a site that will at least resize your photo--keeps it on for an hour or so so you've got time to upload it to your web page, photobucket, or back to your computer and enter it here one at a time.  It's a topic under Forum News-- http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1163851425 )

I know in theory how to use a transit.  But the practice pretty well buffaloes me.  I work better with fabric than wood.


jonsey/downunder

Why don't you just put packers under the floor joists or beams? I assume they will be sitting on top of that wall. Just make sure the ends are level and a couple of spots between and string a line though for the rest. It would be normal to have a little packing under your joists anyway,
I've got nothing on today. This is not to say I'm naked. I'm just sans........ Plans.

Amanda_931

Thinking about how to solve a problem in fabric helped me to start to solve a nasty problem caused by lack of plumb and level on one of my projects.

Mia

jonesy - no, joists are not sitting on top of the sill plates, they will be hanging from the sill plates.  using a specific type of Simpson hangers.   Part of the engineering for earthquake resistance.  We had to have the basement engineered, per local building requirements.  So we had to notch the sill plate so that the nuts on the anchor bolts would be flush with the top of the sill, or lower.  Then husband ground off the top of the bolts, so sub floor will sit on top of sill plate.   (seemed easier than drilling holes in the floor to get it to fit over the bolts)
No one told us to do that.  figured it out from basement plans.

Everything takes longer (& costs more) than you think it will.
You can't have everything without having too much of something.

Mia

Amanda, thanks for the camera info.  I kinda expected it would spendy to get it to work.  And too technical for me.  We do have 2 young adult sons who could probably figure out what we need & how to make it work in about 30 seconds.
I wish I could send a few pix, to show folks the challenges of building on a hill, & the view we will have when we're done.   Maybe next year.  
You can't have everything without having too much of something.


glenn kangiser

If you could get your son's help to get started with the camera setup, you would find that after the first time there is very little to it.  Then you could get pictures on here.  Resolution required for picture posting is very low - a cheap camera would do fine.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

PEG688

Quote

#1: no, joists are not sitting on top of the sill plates, they will be hanging from the sill plates.  using a specific type of Simpson hangers.  
#2: Everything takes longer (& costs more) than you think it will.


#1:  A word of advice on those type hangers , they want to squeak like a banshe :o When you set your joist I'd highly recommend you put a big dab of const. adh. everywhere your joist touch the hanger. This will vary depending on what type of  "I" joist/ brand , if your joists are lumber do the same thing.

#2: Welcome to the world of building  ;D

 BTW your "fix" shimming the beam sould work , if it's a long taper you could start with 1/2" ply(your biggest out of level if IIRC , tyhen go to 3/8" ply, 1/4" , 1/8" and "float " the rest / in between areas .

G/L PEG        
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .