HVAC design when using Icynene insullation.

[Okie_Bob]

I now have my new house dried in and I'm getting bids on insulation and HVAC.
My intent all along has been to use Icynene sprayed in between the 2 X 6 trusses that form the ceiling, between the 2 X 4 studs in all exterior walls and 2" sprayed between the floor joists. My house is about 1400 sq feet with 10' side walls and 12:12 pitch metal covered roof. My place is on a lake in E Tx with what I consider a moderate climate. I'm also using low E double pane windows and sliding glass doors for a great view of the lake the house fronts.
The first call I made was to a local HVAC guy that everyone recommends. He looked at a drawing of the floor plan I had with me and said, yep, you need 4 tons of AC and I'll do the job for $5,000! I knew he as a loser and didn't have a clue about how to size an AC unit. To cut a long story short, everyone I talked to gave me about the same story until I fould an engineer in Dallas that was willing to come down to the lake and do a complete heat load analyzis/design for me for only $300.
I had already had the Icynene guy out and was a little surprised to get a bid of $7,500 for the insulation.
The HVAC engineer recommended a 2 ton heat pump. He showed me the numbers and he took into account the Icynene, not because of the high R value of Icynene but, because of the great sealing power you automatically get with the installation. The glass, the exposure, the trees, etc all were figured in.
I don't have anyone's bid yet for this 2 ton system but, hope to get a few bids over the holidays.
Reason I'm writing this is because I feel strongly this is typical of what you will find anywhere else. The HVAC guys don't really know what they are doing when it comes to the newer materials and building methods we use today. An example is the typical response I get when I tell them that Icynene is 'that expanding spray in foam' insulation...typical response...oh, that stuff..yeah I've heard it's pretty good!! None of them seem to care anything about learning something new and how it affects what they do for a living. If I took that attitude, I'd be out of business.
Okie Bob

[glenn-k]

What kind of heat pump, Bob?  We have an air to air - large room one in our other house.  It won't even make warm air in the winter.  Freezes the A/C unit in about an hour in the summer.

[n74tg]

Have you heard of a computer program called HVAC Calc.  It comes out of Canada and is pretty forward thinking as it relates to newer construction materials, as well as the "correct" way of doing a load calculation (ie ACCA Manual J calculation). ACCA stands for Air Conditioning Contractors Association and you would be astounded at how few air conditioning contractors are actually members of their own association.

The program is done online and you purchase a use license for 30 days for about $50 (if memory serves).  I did it for my house, (1700 sf, single story (10' walls like yours) over an unvented crawlspace in Hot Springs, AR -- so climate is reasonably close to yours) and my results also stated a 2-2.5 ton unit was more than sufficient.

If you're interested you can find them at hvaccomputer.com or call them at 888-736-1101.  It would serve as a nice backcheck on your engineer's calcs.

Now as for the other the other issue about most hvac contractors not caring to learn about their business, especially as it relates to using newer materials, and especially how to do a load calculation properly -- I've read in numerous places that the whole residential construction industry is incredibly slow to embrace change of any form.  It's like however they were taught as an apprentice, that's how they do it as a journeyman.  I'm sure it's not true for ALL of them, but for the majority --YEP.  

Hey - you got any pics of your construction on the web anywhere?  My little project can be found at the link below.

[glenn-k]

The unions in Southern California were trying to keep PEX from being allowed as it cut down too much on labor.  I'm sure some of that applies to all parts of the industry -- it always has.

As far as not belonging to some of the associations, I can sympathize with that a bit -- they are many times good ol' boy groups or ways for a few to make a lot for very little service.  Assn still gets their money though.  I quit the well drillers assn. as it just wasn't my style --- I'm more the lone ranger type.  Not a team player.

[Okie_Bob]

First off Tony, I've been watching your blog and really like what you are doing. Wish I'd known/had more confidence in the stacked block foundation. I used standard morter in a very similar situation. I'm trying now to come up with my own blog, I have a ton of pics but, not a clue how to put them on this site. Glenn actually put up some for me awhile back!
The ACCA, I believe it was, would have been great but, I had a guy I found locally that I know his background and go the whole design with duct layout and all for $300.
Glenn, heat pumps work in some areas and not so well in others. The only thing wrong with them here is that they only last 1/2 as long as a standard a/c unit since they operate year round instead of 1/2 year. I've had them several time is the past and they work just fine.
I personally think anyone should belong to their technical society even if they don't care to mix socially. Most new technology comes from these groups and/or gets discussed, used and discussed some more. Who better to try something new than the guys/gals working with the old technology. I know that is the case in my line of work.
We could start a whole new forum on people not wanting to try something new just because that's the way daddy did it and daddy's daddy before him. Been too long in the oil patch to not recognize this as a huge problem.
Anywy, here's wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a fnatastically Happy New Year!
Okie Bob

[n74tg]

Hey Okie Bob:
What aspect of the oil industry are you in.  I worked for Schlumberger for 10 years and then Marine Offshore Drilling for 10 years before retiring back in 1999.  

Now as for the blog.  It really is not hard to start one up.  I chose blogspot.com which I think redirects you to blogger.com because it seemed pretty straightforward to use.  

All you will do is set yourself up an account (free), choose a username and a password, choose a style (how you basically want your blog to look -- they're are about 8 to choose from) and get started.  

When you want to post a pic, just click the little "picture" icon and it takes you to a browse window on your computer.  Go to the folder the pic is in, highlight it and hit "upload".  Putting pics on your blog is a LOT easier than putting pics in this forum because you don't have to first upload them to a picture hosting website.  Personally, I like putting my pics first in each post, and typing what I want to say after that.  

Then I type what I want to say.  Anytime in this process, you can hit "preview" and it will show you what the post will look like when finished (same as preview does here in the forum).

When finished hit "post".  It will then say "done" and do you want to view your blog.

If you don't like something you can always go back and edit.  If you get it really screwed up, you can delete the whole post and start over.

Blogging really isn't hard; give it a try.  If you use blogspot and run into trouble send me a personal message here and I'll be glad to help.

I posted an update to the blog today -- check it out.

[Okie_Bob]

Tony, I actually saved the web address to start my 'blog' but, just haven't had the time to start it. Hopefully, that will change soon. I don't have internet access at my lake home and that is where I am headed Christmas Day after finishing up family stull. Be there all next week working on the house.
As for the oil bidness, I owned my own drilling rig and drilled my own wells until I got poor and had to quit. Everyone thinks...wow, you drilled wells...you must be rich!!!...let me tell you, that is the toughest businesses I know of to make a living at!
I'll let you know if and when I get the blog up and running! Thanks for all the tips!
Okie Bob

[glenn-k]

I worked on oil rigs a bit - welded on heads for BOE - cut a traveling block out at 125' and repaired the derrick - welding as necessary for moves - slept in the front seat of the welding truck at all hours waiting for my important moment --- then waited six months for the check.  :-/