Question regarding footings and slopes

MountainDon · December 07, 2006, 06:02:34 PM

The land where I intend to build has precious few flat or nearly flat areas. One of my prime choices has a fair amount of slope; I haven't measured precisely yet, but an eyeball guestimate is a drop of about 4 to 5 feet in a horizontal run of about 25 feet. Is the shallow, frost proteced type of pire footing going to be up to the job? If not, or of there's any doubt, let me just state that all along I've been prepared for digging down 36 to 40" for a more or less "normal" poured concrete footing pad with stacked concrete block columns up to and a little above grade, with P.T posts holding up the support beams. Thanks all.

n74tg · December 08, 2006, 07:10:55 PM

I guess it depends on what climate the building will be located in. My lot drops 5 feet in 50 and I used conventional concrete footers. But, I'm in central Arkansas, where the freeze depth is just a few inches, so my footers don't have to be deep.

See pics of my footers in my blog, link at bottom of post.

December 08, 2006, 09:39:25 PM

Do you know what is normal practice in your area? Some here have done well with Bigfoot footings and sonotube piers - but possibly more expensive.

How big are you going?

MountainDon · December 09, 2006, 12:51:42 PM

Closest (and really only) neighbor went with 36" deep sonotubes, but I haven't had a chance to ask him why... maybe the county? I do plan to check on that stuff... my gut feeling is that the county will say 3 foot deep concrete or something like that.

Sizewize, I'm thinking 14 wide x 26 long. I've drawn out plans on paper, in the computer and then onto the driveway out front so I could do a "walk around". Seems that 14 x 26 will work for us (with a little alcove "jog out" on a long wall, one foot x six foot wide where the wood stove will go. And another build out on the back end where the batteries for solar will go... not sue what size for it yet. At $55K to the grid solar is a must!

glenn kangiser · December 09, 2006, 01:03:57 PM

That is about the size of my RV storage garage project using the Little House Plans.

My battery area is about 5'x3'. A little bigger would be nice. Inverters should be a bit away due to sparking possibility on some and explosive gasses during charging. Ventilation is a must. Inverters buzz a bit also.

December 09, 2006, 02:05:40 PM

Re the inverter. I was thinking of splitting the battery / electrical room with a wall and having the batteries on one side, the inverter on the other with short cables thru. Definitely good venting with the batteries. Saw the aftermath of an RV battery explosion once.

glenn kangiser · December 09, 2006, 02:15:53 PM

Good plan, Mountain Don.

Amanda_931 · December 09, 2006, 11:24:24 PM

When I bought this land, I figured that I really did, somehow, have access to the other side of a couple of gullies. Not, it turned out, without buying more land, which I eventually did.

But I walked all over the side nearest the road looking for a place to put my trailer. Found something that looked moderately reasonable.

The now retired health department guy--who sited septic tanks--told me he thought that I had picked the only place on the road that was suitable (not too steep) for a septic system.

Are you going to run into that problem?

MountainDon · December 10, 2006, 02:12:23 AM

There's space within slope bounds for a septic system; at least going by other systems in these mountains that I know of. The real problem will be removing trees in the area for the tank pit, and trenching for the field. There's a LOT of trees; Mostly Ponderosa Pines 8 to 12 inches in diameter with a few larger, up to 16 inch, and a whole mess of smaller ones trying to grow up, as well as a grove of Aspen. Intermixed are smallish firs and scrub oaks. The soil has good drainage too. The land needs thinning badly before anything can be done. That's what I'm working on now, thru spring or until the snow gets too deep. Only an inch or right at present.

It's a bit remote... there's only one other cabin within a couple miles, tho' there are two other private landowners within 1/4 mile. Before the septic goes in there may be an outhouse, or maybe we'll just do with the RV toilet and haul the waste down the road 4 miles to a friends septic or maybe the 7 mile distant campground.

December 10, 2006, 07:14:52 PM

Or compost everything that can be composted--kitchen and toilet waste.

Sawdust toilets take care of a lot.

2nd link is to the 2nd edition on-line. I'm waiting for someone to tell me it's worth replacing my print copy of it with the (for sale) 3d edition.

http://jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.html

http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html

Amanda_931 · December 10, 2006, 07:16:24 PM

Also, do you have enough trees to cut and peel (that's work, maybe not so much work with pine as, say oak) for a log building (vertical or horizontal logs, or just roundwood posts)?

MountainDon · December 11, 2006, 12:33:52 AM

I've thought of the composting type of toilet but have concerns about obtaining enough good sawdust. As the info states the best kind is from a green wood sawmill and those are scarce around here. As for other organics to add to the compost there just isn't much suitable material immediately available.

I do like the idea of no water use though.

As for trees available for log home construction. I haven't done a tree census with building with them in mind, but I think there might be enough. However, I do not fancy all the peeling work. So, a log house, though I admit to liking their looks, is probably not in the cards. I have thought of using some of them for posts between concrete (a la sonotube) footings and the main cabin support beams, as well as for porch roof posts and the like.

Sassy · December 11, 2006, 12:44:02 AM

I remember the days of peeling logs... :-/ glad that's pretty much over with - used a roto-hammer with a chisel bit & also used a shingle remover which made a great peeling spud. Takes lots of time & muscle!

glenn kangiser · December 11, 2006, 12:55:37 AM

Log peeling gets much easier if the logs are left down for about 6 months to a year -but preferably off the ground. The bugs will loosen the bark quite a bit for you. After the bark is off they go away.

December 11, 2006, 01:05:01 AM

That's very true - one of the big logs I de-barked was a huge bull-pine. It was freshly cut down - I literally spent days working on that thing - left a small part with the bark 'cuz Glenn needed to put it up. Anyway, much later, probably a couple years, I was able to pick the bark off with my fingers - to think I struggled so much - could've waited & it would have been a couple hour long job at most... :'(

Amanda_931 · December 11, 2006, 08:27:48 PM

Poplar is really easy to peel in the spring. You can take off the whole log's bark in one piece--and make berry baskets out of it.

Red Cedar's not bad, fresh.

But oak? I spent an hour or so this morning with a tiny piece that I'm trying to use as rustic quarter round.

a baby broad-ax, "carpenter's hatchet" (which I finally figured out how to use), kindling froe, the big log peeling draw-knife was too thick when I couldn't stand it up right.

But the bark on the logs at the treehouse (the first cuts horizontal siding) is still firmly in place. Although peppered with bark beetle holes.

Amanda_931 · December 11, 2006, 08:36:39 PM

consider that round wood is quite a bit stronger than "boards."

sombody posted a link to a round-wood building published in homepower--take a look. Not using near as many logs as a log cabin. I think that these guys took their logs to a local sawmill (would have to be a largish one here) to run through the de-barking machine.

http://www.homepower.com/files/bathhouse.pdf?search=passive%20solar%20heat

If there's a local sawmill, they are frequently very happy to get rid of sawdust. And if they're working, it will be green.

IIRC, though, Jenkins had a load of sawdust delivered about once a year. But I haven't picked up the book for a while.

MountainDon · December 11, 2006, 10:35:33 PM

QuotePoplar is really easy to peel in the spring. You can take off the whole log's bark in one piece--and make berry baskets out of it.

My sister in Bisbee, AZ has peeled or stripped the bark off a variety of trees for her art. She has made "vessles" (baskets) using all sorts of different barks and natural fibers, as well as interweaving copper in wire and thin sheet/strip form.

MountainDon · December 11, 2006, 10:42:06 PM

(had a problem there with the "quote", have to work on that)

The closest working sawmill I know of is probably an hour and a half away. Though once a year for a load (yes, Jenkins stated a load lasted a year) wouldn't be too bad to deal with.

glenn kangiser · December 11, 2006, 10:44:49 PM

In Oregon when I was a kid, my granddad taught me how to peel the bark from Cascara trees, and the bark makes a wonderful tea.

Just kidding --- don't do it. I really did peel it though.

December 11, 2006, 10:46:41 PM

On the quote, just make sure it has all it's brackets around the word quote both at the start and end of the quote.

If you accidentally erase part of it it won't show up right.

MountainDon · December 11, 2006, 10:53:42 PM

QuoteOn the quote, just make sure it has all it's brackets around the word quote both at the start and end of the quote.

If you accidentally erase part of it it won't show up right.

Okay; this is a trial run. If it works, Thanks so much Glenn; if it doesn't it's not your fault

glenn kangiser · December 12, 2006, 01:19:38 AM

QuoteGood Job, Mountain Don.

Amanda_931 · December 21, 2006, 06:47:24 PM

After weeks, I got it.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/alt/cascara_faq.htm

QuoteDo not take Cascara Sagrada unless the harvested bark has been aged for one year or artificially treated with heat and aeration prior to use. (Fresh bark or incorrectly processed bark can cause severe vomiting and spasms due to the free anthrone content)

glenn kangiser · December 21, 2006, 08:44:14 PM

That one must have been really bothering you Amanda--- could I offer you a nice glass of tea to clear that up?